Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

mongoose007
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Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby mongoose007 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:53 pm

Hi guys, having trouble with my auto tranny in my WD21 Terrano. Simply put, it's not shifting into gear. I've checked the oil level, which was fine, topped it up anyway, and run through the self-test, which gave me a normal result (a long and then 10 shorts).

It happened when I was in town, just driving normal town speeds, not especially thrashing it. The engine suddenly revved like the wheels had just hit some ice and then I had no power.

After I parked it up I thought I heard a whirring sound (I could be imagining / mis-remembering that though) and now you can rev the engine and nothing seems to happen. If you put it in any gear there is not the normal sensation of having something connected to the wheels (it used to give a slight jolt as the gear engaged) and the tacho doesn't move.

The first time I took the dip stick out of the tranny, it looked a bit dark, but then subsequent dips look reasonably pinky (not the best), and it's had 1/2 litre of new stuff in there since. I don't think the quality of the fluid is the issue here.

I've done general mechanical work, and would be happy enough if it were a manual, but auto's are a bit of a black art, and I can't really afford to take it to a mechanic. I've followed the manual through, which gets me to a "the truck doesn't creep backward when engaging reverse" step and then pretty much says take the gearbox apart.

Is there anything else I can do before this?

Cameron
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby Cameron » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:09 pm

does it give any inclination to move at all?
maybe a silly question, but, you didn't have the transfer case stick in 4H position and somehow it's smacked itself into neutral?
likewise, check the slector linkage hasn't come adrift on the gearbox and it's popped itself from drive to neutral.

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slide
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby slide » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:09 pm

Sounds to be an internal problem. Either torque convertor spat the dummy, or the trans itself broken/slipping real bad. They're big and heavy to remove yourself, so either be prepared to spend some coin, sell as is, or get them muscles/brain to work.
Secondhand box put in yourself will be cheapest, getting a mechanic to remove and then refit after being overhauled could well be more expensive than buying another wagon (upwards of $2000).
Have a search on this site, you'll find removal tips and tips on how to keep the trans alive (when/ if you choose to fix it).
Good luck and start saving $$ soon
Nath

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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby Big » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:24 pm

Are all the linkages still connected ? or cable not broken? is there a blockage in the pipe work that go from and too the tranny? if these are all ok I'd suspect a grenade tranny.. otherwise it should move..
Pull one of the lines off that go to the radiator and run for a wee bit to see if fluid comes out.. if not then the pump may be fubar :mrgreen: if so then you can rule out pressure and fluid..
I'd drop the pants or at least drain the oil and check for bits.. metal bits.. if there is a lot like swarf from drilling holes then donate it to the god of 4wd and get another. Lol if it's clean and no bits then it Torque convertor could be fk'd. Internally but you should see bits of something in the oil to suggest a grenade went off..
Could be filter blocked, but that would come up if there is no oil flow from popping the pipes for a bit.
Otherrwise Im at a loss other then it's an ornament..
Oh also check the plug if it has one on the selector switch.. and or the solenoid control plug.. but it should have a fail safe if they fk up then you can get home.
umm someone else may chime in..

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jonossiksilvia
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby jonossiksilvia » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:26 pm

silly question but are you checking the auto fluid while its idling in park?
Current 4wd: Surf Kzn185 ssrg factory Intercooled (yet to start build)
Past 4wd: toyota surf ln130, coil sas, 1uz v8 build

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kbushnz
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby kbushnz » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:28 pm

Sounds to me you have stripped the spline in the torque converter..
Been there done that in Nissan Bluebird...
Went to chop down to blast up a hill and it revved over the top like it had popped into N...Went thru all the gears on no one home...
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suzolla
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby suzolla » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:25 pm

I would check your filter first, simple to do, similar experience with my 80 series, started to make a sort of whistle noise then lost drive, if I stopped and turned engine off and then after about 30 secs could sart and then drive for about 100 to 200 m and then would loose drive again.
Filter was badly blocked which is why it was whistling, cleaned filter and was all good, then about 3 weeks later trans died completely no drive in 3, 4 and rev, guessing one of the clutch pack gone.
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby nizute » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:56 pm

i got a trans if you need one :)

mongoose007
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby mongoose007 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:15 pm

Hey guys, thanks for the quick replies!

I'm pretty sure it's an tranny-internal problem (don't say that too loudly on a Friday night), so I'm probably going to do a bit more diagnostics tonight and then look around for remove/install and overhaul quotes, with the aim of replacing it second hand (myself if it doesn't look too bad - I have some lifting gear in the workshop).



To answer your questions specifically:
Suzolla, it's on the street (no garage where I'm renting), so I'll look at the filter tonight if it isn't too messy (thanks for the tip, hadn't considered filter, just level)

kbushnz/slide, yeah, I'm kinda thinking along those lines too. The previous owner had a business hauling wood, so I think it's seen some heavy loading!

jonossiksilvia, I'm checking levels when it's reasonably flat (for Wellington) and off. I would've thought reading it when running would make it read lower than it was, cos the fluid would be in all the channels etc rather than the pan. Is that correct?

Big, again, thanks for those tips, I'll check them tonight.

Cameron, nope nothing. Just sits there and revs. I've tried it in 4H, 2H, 4L to see if it makes a difference. I had a quick look under the truck and didn't notice anything obviously out of place (flapping linkages/cables), but not specifically. I'll look at those tonight.


In case it needs replacing:
Who (shop wise) would you recommend for tranny work? And/or tranny overhaul/recon work?

I'm looking at doing more 4wd than I am at the moment, with that in mind, what's worth replacing/upgrading, beyond seals? (it's a RE4R01A tranny, which is *meant* to be the stronger auto according to a thread I found on here last night).

Cheers guys!

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jonossiksilvia
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby jonossiksilvia » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:13 pm

mongoose007 wrote:
jonossiksilvia, I'm checking levels when it's reasonably flat (for Wellington) and off. I would've thought reading it when running would make it read lower than it was, cos the fluid would be in all the channels etc rather than the pan. Is that correct?


Auto fluid needs to be checked while the car is running on a flat surface in park.

The the Effect on fluid in channels while running is the reason why your losing drive in my opinion as there isn't enough fluid to keep the pressure up
Current 4wd: Surf Kzn185 ssrg factory Intercooled (yet to start build)
Past 4wd: toyota surf ln130, coil sas, 1uz v8 build

Cameron
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby Cameron » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:20 pm

yep most/all autos are meant to be checked that way.
old flatmate had a jag that they didn't realise was meant to be checked that way.
made it shift like shit, drop gears and chop down all the time. they thought the auto was toast but adding a litre of fluid (the difference between max on the stick when running and not) totally changed it

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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby TJ » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:57 pm

Cameron wrote:yep most/all autos are meant to be checked that way.
old flatmate had a jag that they didn't realise was meant to be checked that way.
made it shift like shit, drop gears and chop down all the time. they thought the auto was toast but adding a litre of fluid (the difference between max on the stick when running and not) totally changed it


Jeep suggests to check it in neutral with engine running and transmission at operating temperature for Wranglers. Reason being the pump doesn't work in Park, but it does when in Neutral. Otherwise you are just checking sump level.
'12 JK Rubicon V6 3.6L Auto D44/D44

mongoose007
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby mongoose007 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:19 pm

My bad, rookie mistake eh.

When I checked it non-running, the oil level was already over the max marker, put in another half litre then and still no good (that was Tuesday).

Today, measured it with the engine running and it was below min, so put in the rest of the bottle (500ml more). Still no good.

Both of these readings were taken on a 5* slope though (welcome to Wellington), rear lower than the front, which should make the front of the sump (near dipstick) read lower than normal.

I also tried removing one of the pipes to the cooler, and it spurted out a peanut butter jar's worth in about 5 seconds running, so I don't think oil level is an issue.

The shifter (1, 2, D, N) seems good. Both ends move when I twiddle one of them, which is good. Likewise with the transfer box. Not that. Had a bit of a chuckle checking them, people don't really expect you to be under a car in the road when it isn't on a jack... haha.

I'm not sure about checking the filter. By that you guys mean the strainer in the service manual, right (just to be explicit)? I think dropping an oil pan on the street wouldn't go down to well with the neighbourhood, it's a short road I live on!


Can anyone tell me if there's a model ID on the tranny somewhere, as opposed to just the vehicle info in the engine bay? Would like to make sure I'm getting the right model tranny as a replacement...

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The WEHI
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Re: Plenty of oil... so why no gears?

Postby The WEHI » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:27 pm

Re4r01a is the model of transmission but there are many slight variations of the re4r01a pump and stator lengths friction counts in clutch packs and so on
but just find one for the same model of vehicle with the same transmission/engine

by the sounds of what you have described it sounds like a converter spline
but like any transmission place will say with out seeing and diagnosing its hard to give a definite answer and or price,
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