Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

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danielbeek
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Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby danielbeek » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:20 pm

Hi, just wondering if anyone has experience with more than one brand of the aftermarket shocks like Tough Dog, Raw, Rancho, etc, and what they found best on Terrano.
Looking to replace the Monroes in my Terrano, as the front end bounces all over the place (standard torsions, no winch, just 2nd battery), and I also want more drop from the back end as I have a slight lift.
Any suggestions on a place that does a good deal on xyz recommended shocks - any forum supporters?
Cheers.
1995 LBYD21, 31" ATs, 2" lift, 2.5" exhaust

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Crash bandicoot
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby Crash bandicoot » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:37 pm

Had raws on my r20 apart from being a bit large, tube diameter wise performed well bent one still didn't leak.
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby callum007 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Armada Extremes with remote reservoirs from Trundles Automotive. give you about 10 hp at the wheels extra
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lilpigzuk
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby lilpigzuk » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:36 pm

callum007 wrote:Armada Extremes with remote reservoirs from Trundles Automotive. give you about 10 hp at the wheels extra


for realz 8)

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stovanovich
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby stovanovich » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:49 pm

Standards in the front end are just fine, have you reindexed or just cranked your torsions? If it's the latter then take em down & reindex instead so you get a better spring rate.
For Rears I use extended Munroes, but tempted to go Rancho 9000s when these ones start getting bad.
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danielbeek
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby danielbeek » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:04 pm

callum007 wrote:Armada Extremes with remote reservoirs from Trundles Automotive. give you about 10 hp at the wheels extra


Sweet, per shock I assume. That's near a 50% power gain right there.
...but seriously was more looking at sub $800 options....
Have contacted Trundles on the Adventure shocks however - they seem priced about right.
1995 LBYD21, 31" ATs, 2" lift, 2.5" exhaust

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danielbeek
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby danielbeek » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:17 pm

stovanovich wrote:Standards in the front end are just fine, have you reindexed or just cranked your torsions? If it's the latter then take em down & reindex instead so you get a better spring rate.
For Rears I use extended Munroes, but tempted to go Rancho 9000s when these ones start getting bad.


Now I've seen this comment made before about re-indexing and spring rate. My take is that the only reason to re-index is if you run out of thread on the adjustment bolt, and cant reach the desired height. I have a fair bit of bolt sticking out with a 2" wind-up, and not much thread left to go higher (not that I want to).
Isn't the 'cranking' effectively just rotating the end of the rod, and re-indexing just re-positioning the 'grip' on the rod - why would that change spring rate, the other end at the A-arm doesn't know the difference?
Both result in worsening the A-arm angles slightly meaning more shock transferred to chassis, as (initial) swing of A -arm is less perpendicular to road surface.
1995 LBYD21, 31" ATs, 2" lift, 2.5" exhaust

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lax2wlg
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby lax2wlg » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:43 pm

You are right, adjusting a torsion bar does not affect spring rate, its just that the real world results feel very similar.
Spring rate is determined by bar diameter * length of bar.

When adjusting torsion bars, you are adjusting the twisting force, ie torque, on the bar.

It is worth noting that the 2 doors have a lower diameter - and therefore softer - torsion bar than the 4 doors. Softer spring rate equals more compliance and therefore better off road performance.

This I posted in another thread:


By increasing the UCA angle you are reducing the effective radius, therefore lowering the torque (twisting force) on the t-bar. If torque is a function of force * radius, the more you increase the UCA angle, the more you reduce the effective radius and therefore lower the torque on the torsion bars. As a result the torsion bars will deflect less. This makes the chassis try to move more which can be felt in the seat of the pants, and also reduces articulation and makes it much easier to lift a wheel. Then theres the whole down travel thing.


Reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=41525

For the Nissan WD vehicle, with the torsions set at factory ride height, weight transfer is predictable. The vehicle is very balanced off road, and very difficult to roll. You can get away with removing the front sway bar - and therefore roll centre behaviour - without adversely affecting its handling off road. I presume this is due to the design of the body, which is a good amount wider than it is tall. Therefore you get a short vehicle with a wide track, this is a very good thing for stability.

Regarding shock choice... I have Rancho 5000s +2 inch, standard valving, in the back which gives approx 16 inches of wheel travel.
For the front I am planning a long travel build and seriously considering 9000XLs which have adjustable valving. This way you can stiffen it up for sports car handling on road, and then soften it right down at the turn of a switch for technical low speed off road driving. Or for high speed off road, somewhere in the middle. I have also seriously considered using air-assisting shocks - eg Monroe MaxAir. These allow you to adjust ride height at the flick of a switch. They have a built in airbag as a helper spring, and the factory valving in the shock itself is quite soft. I am also investigating cross linking these shocks to provide forced articulation. In some situations this would be bad for stability, so it would have to be switch operated, but that just requires a simple Schrader valve. There are various posts where I have crapped on about this in detail. Its currently in the planning phase as the truck is in Petone in storage.
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fh2014
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby fh2014 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:48 pm

if you want to go cheap, check npora, i think the rear shock from a 4wd ford F250 bolts up in the rear of the wd21, gives the same compressed length but alot more extended length allowing for more down travel in the rear

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danielbeek
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby danielbeek » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:35 pm

OK, Lax2wlg, I think my understanding is same as what you're saying. But how much has the radius really changed on <2" lift, cant be much? Would do the math but bit lazy... :wink:

Anyway, decided to go with the AmadaXtreme adventure series + a set of Dobi 2" lift springs from Trundles. They did a bit of a discount, and seemed to know their stuff, so that tipped me to take a punt on a slightly less known brand.
They arrived yesterday. Nicely made solid kit (by appearance anyway...) though the paint does look super thin, and there was a tiny dot of rust in one place already :?
The rod is 20mm and puts any other shock I've seen to shame - dont think that'll be the weakest link somehow.

Will comment on performance once fitted.
1995 LBYD21, 31" ATs, 2" lift, 2.5" exhaust

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lax2wlg
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby lax2wlg » Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:17 am

Mate i'm not a professional suspension engineer - you'll have to talk to DeRanged about that... and I am shit at maths. But I drew some pictures to illustrate the concept. Note radius angle in both is the middle of the upper balljoint - ie first pivot point.

First is a very durable production IFS with running gear, ie diff and CVs, at par or stronger than certain live axle models - Isuzu Trooper. Here the ride height is set slightly over factory, the radius is obviously much larger.

Second is quite possibly the most fragile and overrated production IFS - Toyota T-Bar. Here the ride height is set very high, the effective radius is much lower. As well as the change in spring - ie torsion bar - behaviour, it will wear out ten times faster at that static angle.

The reduction in radius directly correlates to the spring behaviour - same force, high A-Arm angle equals a stiff suspension, torsion bars dont deflect, and it doesnt comply to the terrain. But the difference is exponential, so a small reduction in radius equals a big difference in spring behaviour.

In my opinion, Independent suspension can be made to work extremely well off road, But the biggest mistake people make is 'torsion bar cranking.' It destroys performance and reduces the life of serviceable parts massively. The next level obviously is deleting torsion bars, but that requires a seperate thread altogether, which will come in due time :wink: In my opinion, torsion bars are the equivalent of leaf springs - antiquated, luddite technology.

ps always use Japanese OEM parts
Attachments
goodifs.jpg
Good ride height, larger effective radius
badifs.jpg
Bad ride height, smaller effective radius
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby ChurchurDan » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:32 pm

Also with the torsion bars wound up 2 inches you have almost no down travel.
When you have no down travel the wheel cannot drop into a dip or hole in the road so the whole truck drops into it, add to that the reduced leverage the control arm has over the torsion bar and it starts to feel like your spring rates have increased and your dentist becomes your new best friend.

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lax2wlg
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Re: Best all-round shock for 2" lifted terrano

Postby lax2wlg » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:09 pm

Yea exactly, downtravel = traction and stability.
Downtravel is far more important than uptravel. You want as much as possible.
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