Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

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00falcon
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Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby 00falcon » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:27 am

To Lock or not to Lock...
I don't think that's really the right question...

In a perfect world, I could justify the cost of Selectable Lockers.
But even though the wife has said yes, I cant afford Selectable Lockers... just yet..

But this weekend, it became apparent that I need lockers, of some sort.
The Jeep Club went and rocked TECT Park.
I kinda held my own... but I did have to get pulled / winch more than most.

So, with that said, what are peoples take on Auto-Lockers up front, more importantly, up front on a Wrangler.
(She is a toy & She gets trailered... most of the time)

And, once the above question has been bantered out... and I decide Yes, I will get an Auto Locker... is this something I can install myself...?

All the YouTube Videos I have watched, say yes...
the Email and Instructions I was sent from LOKKA say Yes...

Keen to here any thoughts...

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby wjw » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:42 am

Looking at your photo, short wheel base... trailered, I would say yes
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby TJ » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:12 am

Should be great,given that it's trailer queen.

Rear auto locker, if its auto. Manual transmission will make it a bit harsher.

DIY, if I had not sold my TJ I would have done this exact thing. Only if not a daily driver.
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby TJ » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:22 am

Just thinking about this, if you have to pay someone else to do the install then get them to do ratio regear at the same time. Factory ratios were pretty tall for TJs.
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby Ralfie » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:23 am

00falcon wrote:To Lock or not to Lock...

So, with that said, what are peoples take on Auto-Lockers up front, more importantly, up front on a Wrangler.
(She is a toy & She gets trailered... most of the time)

Cheers


The Wrangler doesn't tend to have free wheeling hubs fitted and since you do use it occasionally on the road, then I would say no to auto locker in the front.

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby TJ » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:55 am

Ralfie wrote:The Wrangler doesn't tend to have free wheeling hubs fitted and since you do use it occasionally on the road, then I would say no to auto locker in the front.


There is no Torque delivered to front axle in 2wd, auto locker should not be a problem at all. It's used in Wranglers fairly commonly in US. Even in snowy conditions.
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby nzlux » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:21 pm

Ralfie wrote:There is no Torque delivered to front axle in 2wd, auto locker should not be a problem at all. It's used in Wranglers fairly commonly in US. Even in snowy conditions.


I have auto lockers front and rear in my hilux, they go great on the slippery stuff but on gravel I go into 2wd, you can definitely feel the front locker if you do not unlock the front hubs.

If you are going to any driving on tarseal you would want free wheeling hubs with an auto locker in front.

If I did it again I would go auto locker in the rear, selectable locker in the front, still might do that in the future.
Last edited by nzlux on Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby 00falcon » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:06 pm

TJ wrote:Should be great,given that it's trailer queen.

Rear auto locker, if its auto. Manual transmission will make it a bit harsher.

DIY, if I had not sold my TJ I would have done this exact thing. Only if not a daily driver.


I have a Dana 44 LSD in the rear...
how much different is the install in the rear as opposed to the D30 Open Diff up front...

All the videos and instruction i look at are for the front... the D30...

The LOKKA site makes no mention of a unit for a D44 with an LSD

http://lokka.com/site/

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby fh2014 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:07 pm

auto lockers in front no good for road driving with auto hubs?

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby 00falcon » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:13 pm

fh2014 wrote:auto lockers in front no good for road driving with auto hubs?


I dont have auto hubs...
I dont have selectable hubs...
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby lax2wlg » Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:57 pm

You'll need to find an open carrier D44 which will probably be pretty difficult in NZ.
I'm not sure I would put an auto unlocker in the front of a Wrangler, for a couple of reasons. Thats just me though.
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby 00falcon » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:04 pm

lax2wlg wrote:I'm not sure I would put an auto unlocker in the front of a Wrangler, for a couple of reasons.


Can you elaberate...?



the yanks seam to have no problem doing it...
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby yeti » Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:29 pm

save the extra coin and go selectable...........one of the best bits I've thrown in the dirty thirty ........ :D
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby 00falcon » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:05 pm

yeti wrote:save the extra coin and go selectable...........one of the best bits I've thrown in the dirty thirty ........ :D


the problem it, its quite a bit of extra coin...
(plus install, as thats not a home job)

Other than ARB's and OX, what recommendation for selectable are there...

Quadratec do a pair of ARBs (D30 / D44 / Compressor) for around US$2k (plus install)
thats a lot of money...
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby TJ » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:22 pm

Yukon do an air locker as well, but I agree they are all expensive and not a diy job.

When I was looking at them, one thing was sure that not all auto lockers are created equal. Some brands were better suited / behaved in Jeep applications. When on a budget, there is always a compromise.
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby Ralfie » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:49 pm

TJ wrote:
Ralfie wrote:The Wrangler doesn't tend to have free wheeling hubs fitted and since you do use it occasionally on the road, then I would say no to auto locker in the front.


There is no Torque delivered to front axle in 2wd, auto locker should not be a problem at all. It's used in Wranglers fairly commonly in US. Even in snowy conditions.


Correct, no drive from transfer case, but the road wheels turn the 'auto locked' front diff. This will affect steering etc, especially on cornering. If you go auto locker in front, you need free wheeling hubs for any road use.

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby UBZ » Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:11 pm

my Pick would be a Detroit or Yukon Grizzly Auto unlocker in the back - Full carrier and much smother operation than the lunch box lockers (lokka etc)
then in the front a Detriot True Trak Cam LSD in the front - most of the benefits of a auto unlocker ,mainly in stopping the unloaded wheel spin. but none of the bad road manners .
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby muddy » Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:50 pm

UBZ wrote: the front a Detriot True Trak Cam LSD in the front - most of the benefits of a auto unlocker ,mainly in stopping the unloaded wheel spin. but none of the bad road manners .

Without free-wheeling hubs, a LSD in front is NOT great for road driving. Gets heavy on steering, and will want to track straight ahead on corners, especially under power or engine braking. At least that's my experience with hubs locked and LSD in front of a Safari.

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby Lchundy » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:00 pm

Arb locker in rear
Open front

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby UBZ » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:37 pm

muddy wrote:
UBZ wrote: the front a Detriot True Trak Cam LSD in the front - most of the benefits of a auto unlocker ,mainly in stopping the unloaded wheel spin. but none of the bad road manners .

Without free-wheeling hubs, a LSD in front is NOT great for road driving. Gets heavy on steering, and will want to track straight ahead on corners, especially under power or engine braking. At least that's my experience with hubs locked and LSD in front of a Safari.



the cam type LSDs work a little different to the clutch type , they load up under power rather than releasing under power . but I have only test driven one in a full time 4wd long wheel base and didn't notice any undue road handling affects .
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby Mattman » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:54 pm

I ran twin auto lockers in my manual truck with silver stones. Awesome traction upgrade and very low cost and pretty easy to install.

Was horrid on the street but amazing off road. Driving style does have to change a bit tho and you notice it in tight stuff but the traction upgrade is worth it.

My new truck I am building I am going to run a Chinese air locker in the front and auto locker rear and auto.

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby lax2wlg » Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:50 pm

00falcon wrote:
lax2wlg wrote:I'm not sure I would put an auto unlocker in the front of a Wrangler, for a couple of reasons.


Can you elaberate...?

the yanks seam to have no problem doing it...


Just because personally I find them quite unstable at times and they quite like to roll over and the front seems to like unloading itself quite a bit (short wheelbase contributes). So I wouldn't want to be in an off camber scenario, misjudge it and end up on the lid. IMO they don't leave much margin for error.
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby TJ » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:39 pm

UBZ wrote:my Pick would be a Detroit or Yukon Grizzly Auto unlocker in the back - Full carrier and much smother operation than the lunch box lockers (lokka etc)
then in the front a Detriot True Trak Cam LSD in the front - most of the benefits of a auto unlocker ,mainly in stopping the unloaded wheel spin. but none of the bad road manners .


For a TJ D44 rear with LSD, these would be great replacement. You have to replace the carrier to open carrier for it to work with lunch box locker. But Detroit solves that problem being a full carrier. Fixes two issues in one.
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby lax2wlg » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:53 am

Ralfie is correct, they will continue to turn the front end when in 4HI. Much like my old (late production) 1984 Series III LR, which had front hub flanges fitted from the factory. And its a chain driven tcase unlike a Series LR which is bulletproof, balls to the wall gear driven. I drove a YJ (bastard child leaf sprung) for quite a while in the US, same arrangement.

In some ways simple is best.

That could also apply to locking differentials. With selectable lockers comes a whole nother host of maintenance/potential weak spot/reliability issues. Full mechanical traction with no failure points is the simplest and most reliable.

But like anything in this game, there are compromises :wink:
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby mudlva » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:49 am

If on a budget auto rear manaul front.
Full time locked on front binds up the steering by loading up the cv's/u'js.
They are also good at grabing the side of banks and flipping the wagon onto its side.
In the wet the locker will bulldoze straight even on hard lock.
On the sidlings on grass they will pull the front straight down.

Imho if coins tight. Do the back first. Drive it hard.
Save up then sort the front out when enough coin has been stached.
The back does 80% of the work

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby 00falcon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:23 am

mudlva wrote:If on a budget ...

We're all on some sort of budget... :)

mudlva wrote:They are also good at grabing the side of banks and flipping the wagon onto its side.

I havent had her on her side yet... but being short and tall, i can see the possibility of this happening...


mudlva wrote:The back does 80% of the work

Reading the comments in this post, the opinion seams to be evenly split, if not leaning towards 'Dont auto-lock the front'

So, with that said... should i change my mindset to 1 x Gold Plated Selectable Locker... in the rear...?


I've done most other things properly... and not saying that there not 'Proper'
but what are peoples take on these Chinese lockers...
(i did a quick search, and didn't really find many negative comments...)
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby mudlva » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:50 pm

donno about this gold plated unit you are on about,

golds pretty soft and wouldn't work for to long at a guess, altho you would end up with a pretty expensive nugget in the bottom of ya diff housing :lol: :lol:

anyways.....

when i bough a Chinese locker and gave it to my diff man to install he said quote
" I've fitted over 1/2 dozen of these now and haven't seen a decent one yet. hope yours is different"

when i returned in a couple of days to collect he said "its a piece of "shit" the same as the other rubbish units, good luck with it" and due to terrible machining it cost me more to fit as a secondary bummer to the whole thing.

anyway i had a couple of years to sulk about the whole thing and decided that before a ran the diff to on-sell it stating that it was a Chinese crap locker and lost well over a grand on the deal...

crying over i bought a arb unit had it fitted, diff man was very happy about my decision.

you will gets what ya pays for crap for $750-$900 plus fitting or spend $1600-$1900 plus fitting and then set and forget.

I've ran arbs for yrs now and broken every thing around them but not the nugget itself

i would class my driving as very hard but I'm not an animal and wheels in the air will break everything no matter what the build quality is

again just my 2c worth

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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby 00falcon » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:21 pm

mudlva wrote:when i bough a Chinese locker and gave it to my diff man to install he said quote
" I've fitted over 1/2 dozen of these now and haven't seen a decent one yet. hope yours is different"

when i returned in a couple of days to collect he said "its a piece of "shit" the same as the other rubbish units, good luck with it" and due to terrible machining it cost me more to fit as a secondary bummer to the whole thing.

anyway i had a couple of years to sulk about the whole thing and decided that before a ran the diff to on-sell it stating that it was a Chinese crap locker and lost well over a grand on the deal...



Cheers for the comments on the Chinese lockers...


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Today i rang about the cost of an ARB for the Rear D44...

Locker - $1650 + Gst (plus 2 x $90 bearings) = Ok then...
Compressor - $490 + Gst = Hmmm
Diff Install - 6 hours... = F*&k me....
Plus switch wiring...

And... the crucs of it all... the ARB's are either 3.73:1 and numerically lower.... or 4.11:1 and higher
i have 3.73:1, so i cant get the lockers and then regear in the future if i want to go to 35's...

Might as well be gold plated...
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby lax2wlg » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:24 pm

00falcon wrote:
mudlva wrote:when i bough a Chinese locker and gave it to my diff man to install he said quote
" I've fitted over 1/2 dozen of these now and haven't seen a decent one yet. hope yours is different"

when i returned in a couple of days to collect he said "its a piece of "shit" the same as the other rubbish units, good luck with it" and due to terrible machining it cost me more to fit as a secondary bummer to the whole thing.

anyway i had a couple of years to sulk about the whole thing and decided that before a ran the diff to on-sell it stating that it was a Chinese crap locker and lost well over a grand on the deal...



Cheers for the comments on the Chinese lockers...


-----



Today i rang about the cost of an ARB for the Rear D44...

Locker - $1650 + Gst (plus 2 x $90 bearings) = Ok then...
Compressor - $490 + Gst = Hmmm
Diff Install - 6 hours... = F*&k me....
Plus switch wiring...

And... the crucs of it all... the ARB's are either 3.73:1 and numerically lower.... or 4.11:1 and higher
i have 3.73:1, so i cant get the lockers and then regear in the future if i want to go to 35's...

Might as well be gold plated...
The things we do... :)



Bummer. You could always regear the transfer case.
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Re: Auto-Lockers (Yes / No)

Postby mudlva » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:43 pm

Get an after market compressor and a pressure switch to suit.

Take the diff head only into the shop. That way youre not paying for the man to strip it down. 6 hrs is way to generous.

If you are going to toss the air con than use that as a compressor with a pressure switch.

Talk to Tim on here and see if he can sharpen the nugget price a little. Ive found him cheaper than any arb dealers and way more helpful

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