Lada trails truck revisited

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Started this long suffering project yrs ago yea its one of mine
I stopped the project because of different interpretations of what you were allowed to
I'm sick of it sitting there taking up space so decided to get it done, after talking with a few people I respect (not you bob if your trying to get out of that bottle you owe me ) I've decided to biff this up on here in the hope that if I interpret the rules wrong a scrutineer or competitor that has been down this road will let me know so
This originally started as a Lada Niva I traded for some hilux bits

The original idea was to turn it into an A class trials truck and I started down this path but couldn't find any way to strengthen the axles so decided to change to E class
The final call is hilux axles front and rear, SR20de motor and front wheel drive auto, with three link coilover front suspension

Since this is going to take alot of typing to put up all the stuff I've done it can go up in stages
Rear Axle
LN130 rear axle..... cut all the suspension mounts off the original Lada axle and welded them on...
One small problem, increasing the diff size from 6.5" to 8" caused a slight problem with the Pan hard bar
So


remade the axle mount
up top a little trim and bend

and the standard lada pan hard fits

[Nivapulledout]

woop woop It lives!!!!

[tomsoffroad]

Tease

[ice4x4]

Nice one Reece

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Tease

did you see the time on the post

Just for you dude some cool crap

Rear brakes

Since I'm going fiddles on the rear axle I decided to go big on the rear so IFS Hilux calipers and vented disks
Since spinning mass effects hp I took a bit of time to "thin" some weight out of the disks 2.5kgs off each disk, the holes are alternated and only go through one side at each spot to lesson stress lines that can crack

All this created a bit of a problem I've thinned down the disk to point with worn pads the caliper pistons could pop out so had to thin the calipers down

The IFS disks have one problem.... can't fit em over the hub flange so I had to bolt them up to the back of the flange
welded on a set of posts

Here it is all ready to go

There was one small problem the wheel studs on this axle are collared to locate the drum that normally sits between the rim and the hub with this gone the wheel nuts wont do up so had to add a spacer

[tomsoffroad]

Just for you dude some cool crap

Your right bro, that is some cool crap. Looking good

[rokhound]

Woohoo another lemon build

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Woohoo another lemon build

hey that one made alot of my mates happy when I parted that out

To help motivate me I've put a for sale sign on it that way its not mine so I will finish it.... got a local lad pretending he isn't interested oh and I've told all the local lads not taking anybody else's projects till its done

And most importantly

[Weemsy]

I'll get the rear axle on the Lada back together on friday night matey,

thanks for the 'loan' of the diff. I told you I would get you another, it just took time

[GotFlex]

you really should cert it and get it road legal

[mfrsr]

bags not building the engine this time.

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bags not building the engine this time.

All done .... well almost I could only find one torque converter bolt so I've still got to do them

For those that don't know a SR20de from the Nissan Serena (2L alloy block that loves to rev ) mated up to a U13 SSS Bluebird front wheel drive auto with the center diff welded.... according to the boy racer sites the bluebird trans is sposed to be the toughest they made

Anyway after talking to a few of the trials guys running SR20's I made up drive flanges and bearing retainers to stop the D/S pulling out of the diff


With the shafts done I made up some bearing retainers to bolt on either side



Some of you who have seen this before might have noticed the nice sheeted in trans tunnel in the first pic is different being one of my projects I've redesigned it the motor has been moved forward after talking to a few C class guys about it decided to put more weight on the front axle.... make it climb better.... so cut out all the old tunnel and made a new one

This sort of brings me to where I'm at discovered yesterday that moving the engine forward has stuffed up my steering shaft spent yesterday trying to find options and last night trying them out on CAD
heres the problem

I had the steering box on the axle to lower weight, and yes would cause some bump steer from articulation but with a top speed of only 75km/hr it wouldn't be an issue
Anyway last night I came to the conclusion that I'm going to have to change to X over steering and mount the box on the body bugger
Now I have to play with the mounts for the Watts link to make it work with the drag link

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Time for another update... This is what we are working on at the moment

Motor/trans tunnel.... dropped the motor and finish welded the space frame

Done this because this little helpfull bugger has been real busy profiling and cutting all the panels

So I could weld em in..... there is the new trans tunnel with more room for the seats

Now to sort the front axle not making any more stuff ups so I've plotted the axle and suspension on CAD found something real interesting if I articulated the axle I only had 8mm of up travel with the bump stops where I was planning so a bit of cool redesign and I've got 5" of up.... more to come on this

[rokhound]

As usual Reece, when you apply all your head to something, it works on the cool scale. Looks the shizzle dude, keep at it until completion

[Nivapulledout]

wicked stuff Reece, been waiting along time to see this thing finished and fingers crossed it is going to be churning mud sometime soon!!!

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I'm still working on it
Not much to show for it, ground the front axle clean again 2 and a half 5" grinding disks and 2 cutting disks my welding might have been a bit of overkill
Been playing suspension options in CAD, finally got all the conditions I want.... some up travel, more down travel.... level stance (Rules can't change rear suspension) and all this below max level for cutting of the guards (Rules say may trim to base of bonnet)
Now I've got to work out how to build to the lines on CAD and still get the swivel housing to be able to be removed

Got a bit of paid work I"ve got to finish for a couple of mates then I'll sort the front axle

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Finally got everything to fit and still do what I want my perdy picture works

Had to adjust the suspension mounts to do it but some of it has worked out for the better, Got the roll center height up to 64cm's this will help on sidelings
3.7 degree of oversteer so should steer well
now for the bit I want to play with Anti-dive, going to set it up with 3 different levels 74%, 58% & 40%
Got everything to fit clearances are down to mm's but it works... now to sort my design and build it

Oh and on a side note got the disks for the beadlocks CAD'd up they go off for Quotes tomorrow.... doing something different with them

[pruggerdore]

Finally got everything to fit and still do what I want my perdy picture works

Had to adjust the suspension mounts to do it but some of it has worked out for the better, Got the roll center height up to 64cm's this will help on sidelings
3.7 degree of oversteer so should steer well
now for the bit I want to play with Anti-dive, going to set it up with 3 different levels 74%, 58% & 40%
Got everything to fit clearances are down to mm's but it works... now to sort my design and build it

Oh and on a side note got the disks for the beadlocks CAD'd up they go off for Quotes tomorrow.... doing something different with them

showoff

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Time for a bit of rule problem.... the lada is a uni-body, the strength is in the folds and structure of the panels.... there is no "ladder" chassis, the body is the chassis
Now the rules say if the cage is attached to the body you need large sandwich plates bolted either side of the body.... no option to weld to the body
Now I'm going to roll this so I want this attached as strongly as possible, being a uni-body that means I want to attach to the area with lots of folds and structure......this all adds up to problems as sandwich plates dont like structure

So I went with a welded plates (as chassis rule) but the larger size of the body mount
Front A pillar

The structure that it is on is the steering box/relay mounts

B pillar

The odd shape was so I pushed down on all the structure for the rear lower link mounts

The rear cage mounts


And the diagonal brace

Rest of the roll cage in the next few days

[lilpigzuk]

Hope you can drive trials like you post Reece
Another season of A here until the hyandai is finshed, kim jong ill said so

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Hope you can drive trials like you post Reece
Another season of A here until the hyandai is finshed, kim jong ill said so

I think I could manage that "slow, all over the place... and not finish"
is that what your thinking

[De-Ranged]

Right the rest of the cage
First off I'd like some clarification on another rule
I have been told that you can't mount smaller dia pipe to larger dia pipe without plating the end of the small pipe
I got this from a top competitor, yet there is nothing in the rules on the NZ4WDA site
If I have to plate these pipes how thick are the plate, how wide does it need to be

Right problems aside the rest of the cage



With the monocoque, uni-body the roof was a major part of the strength so I've replaced this with the cage this means I have to mount to the points where I cut the roof off.... also ties the body into the cage making the cage stronger
A pillar

The tube heading forward is part of the space framing for the front suspension

B pillar

And the rear

These are all done in 3mm in case there are issues and these are deemed cage mounts
And the last bit the dash bar and windscreen bars... I've tie'd them into the space framing for the engine tunnel and the foot of the A pillar

Still got a wee bit of work to do on the cage.... seat belt bar, but this will wait till I've got the seats mounted
Right bed time

[turoa]

Right the rest of the cage
First off I'd like some clarification on another rule
I have been told that you can't mount smaller dia pipe to larger dia pipe without plating the end of the small pipe
I got this from a top competitor, yet there is nothing in the rules on the NZ4WDA site
If I have to plate these pipes how thick are the plate, how wide does it need to be

Yea its a stupid retarded rule as apparently someone was worried about it punching through, and the smaller tube is generally extra bracing the rules dont call for

So pretty much you just have to have the same amount of surface area as what you would if using the same size tube as the main structure. The amount of surface area really is next to nothing (if you calculate what is actually touching, not the area inside the pipe), however to keep scrutineers and others happy its easiest to just weld a 1 1/4" (or whatever your cage size is) size washer under the smaller materials mounting surface.

[Rotazuk]

Right the rest of the cage
First off I'd like some clarification on another rule
I have been told that you can't mount smaller dia pipe to larger dia pipe without plating the end of the small pipe
I got this from a top competitor, yet there is nothing in the rules on the NZ4WDA site
If I have to plate these pipes how thick are the plate, how wide does it need to be

Yea its a stupid retarded rule as apparently someone was worried about it punching through, and the smaller tube is generally extra bracing the rules dont call for

So pretty much you just have to have the same amount of surface area as what you would if using the same size tube as the main structure. The amount of surface area really is next to nothing (if you calculate what is actually touching, not the area inside the pipe), however to keep scrutineers and others happy its easiest to just weld a 1 1/4" (or whatever your cage size is) size washer under the smaller materials mounting surface.

Rule 6.1 E . Looks like wording has changed from what I remember and the current wording implies it is specific to a support tube in the A hoop . I think it came about as trucks were installing a centre support in the a hoop ( as Tu's say's not required by the rules ) of a smaller tube dia . They seem happy with a half tube plate over the larger tube where the small tube meets .

Thats the extent of my knowledge of the rules , no experience with your cage issue . On a space frame vehicle if they deem the cage to start at the top of the dash then it should be no stretch of the imagination to say the body is the chassis . If you are iffy and want it sorted before you proceed contact the design commitee I guess and get a final decision .

Chris

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A wee update

Did I mention how tight the front suspension / steering was.... this is the top link mount to the axle
its all I the space I've got to mount to

Been re-working the steering arms third time... just about finished them just need a few strap's of 20x3 flat for the edges
Decided to make a new jig for the shop


All made from scrap even the bearing on the end is out of a wreaked gearbox
This is what I need it for

As well as beadlocking them I'm moving the centers in a bit further 20mm more offset

[Dirtydog]

now that looks like a handy jig,

Looking good so far, im looking at doing something similar with the swb safari chassis ive got from my Terrano Sas.

Difference being i dont have much knowledge in physics or CAD's in that manner.

Definitly leaning a few things from this build. will be keeping an eye on this to learn more

Just wondering whats the best sort of suspension set up for articulation/ mudding? dont even know what sort of axles i will be looking at yet, probably safari's as they are wide enough maybe the newer ones though.

anyway, good luck and hope to see more

[Nivapulledout]

Wicked Reece Wicked.

I hope you dont have any problems with the rules. Surely what you have done surpasses any strength worries they have.

Great work

[De-Ranged]

now that looks like a handy jig,

more than you know, been flipping centers (poor mans bead locks) and offsetting centers for a while.... it is well over due

just wondering whats the best sort of suspension set up for articulation/ mudding?

Mudding you don't want much articulation... mudding is about hp and big wheels.... look on utube at the americans
As for articulation, you can get that from almost any suspension.... balance is more important getting the truck to stay level while the suspension (front and rear) works under you and I still recommend leaf springs for those on a budget or technically challenged you can tune them at minimal cost by adding and removing leaves and they this is an old argument run a search

Just a wee bit I forgot to add the NZ1 navi in the shop the yesterday, he had a look at the cage feels I'll be all sweet as the windscreen bars are mounted with the pipes sided by side giving a large surface area
Oh and based off an old discussion on another website about Anti-sqaut (for those that don't know this is the opposite of Anti-dive, the reaction when the axle is loaded with torque from brakes or throttle and how the suspension pushes up when this torque is applied)
Anyway while having my lunch I decided to adjust things so I can play with this.... so my top link mount was changed to (what I've built above ) 98%, 76% & 50% Anti-dive.... be interesting to see if I'm right

[Dirtydog]

well i supose that is a good point,

it would be to enter comps and stuff down here, i think its mainly mud here, dunno..

Cheers for the info though, might come in handy later down the road.

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Wee update
Got steering arms.... with the correct ackerman for my WB, Mild steel arms, 4130 kingpin keys (round bit inside the swivil housing) and 4140 inserts for the balljoint mounts



Got the panhard mount on and boxing over to the coilover mount... this will give me a base to bolt my bump stop pad to