Competition Winch Tech
Competition Winch Tech
OK so last weekend gave me a taste that I am excited to see where it may lead
For the last couple of years I have watched the winch competition scene in Europe explode. The recent Ultra4 race in Scotland was epic.
It doesnt really matter what happens. The one thing you can count on is you will need to winch at some point...
This is a call to the winch competition guys. What do you run? electric? Hydraulic? Hows your freespool operated? Mid Mounted? What tricks do you use to help keep the rope layering correctly?
Ive got a few ideas But any input before I crack out the tools would be awsome
For the last couple of years I have watched the winch competition scene in Europe explode. The recent Ultra4 race in Scotland was epic.
It doesnt really matter what happens. The one thing you can count on is you will need to winch at some point...
This is a call to the winch competition guys. What do you run? electric? Hydraulic? Hows your freespool operated? Mid Mounted? What tricks do you use to help keep the rope layering correctly?
Ive got a few ideas But any input before I crack out the tools would be awsome
There's gotta be some rocks round here SOMEWHERE!
Re: Competition Winch Tech
That's what sets competitors apart.. and trying to find out would be like pulling teeth.. for me.. easy pto run by the seat of my pants.. air operated in cab freespool so it's easy.. but I have plans and na you aint gonna find out..
- skid
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
Most of the National Winch comp guys ( ie; single truck entries ) are running a pto setup with a backup electric usually mounted in the rear running thru pipe and out the front
80 Series on 35" creepies, manual with twin factory lockers.
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
Big wrote:That's what sets competitors apart.. and trying to find out would be like pulling teeth.. for me.. easy pto run by the seat of my pants.. air operated in cab freespool so it's easy.. but I have plans and na you aint gonna find out..
Fair enough I thought I would get that answer. Serves me right so I will rephrase... How bout the serious 'Club' trucks What do you do to get through the mud fastest and back to the warm fire and cold beers?
There's gotta be some rocks round here SOMEWHERE!
- geckoadventure
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
God winch or modified 8274
God winch faster lol
God winch faster lol
Re: Competition Winch Tech
Hydraulic, hardwe to set up, but easy to use and reliable.
try and get pump set on a 1-1 and little effort involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5w749iEG30
also can winch backwards ids off engine.
try and get pump set on a 1-1 and little effort involved.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5w749iEG30
also can winch backwards ids off engine.
retired 4wd to a ford ranger and UTV
Re: Competition Winch Tech
http://winch.co.nz/categories/4x4-competition-winches
Plus
http://winch.co.nz/categories/2up-twin-motor
I reackon would be the goods i have the winch but single motor,
Plus
http://winch.co.nz/categories/2up-twin-motor
I reackon would be the goods i have the winch but single motor,
The_wehi@hotmail.com
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pzj70,35's,Lockers,Winch and some stickers for added flex.
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(027 788 1046)
pzj70,35's,Lockers,Winch and some stickers for added flex.
^^Soon to be on safari axles and 5.13's, 37's linked front and rear^^
Ln60 project (money pit) <-- Sold
Pzj77 Turbo/auto,33's .
Re: Competition Winch Tech
Been cruising the 2up site but tbh.. I really don't think they are that fast.. If budget is not a problem. .then hydraulic would be fast but also at a cost..weight is very heavy compared to say electric 8274 modified. . Shit even a modified pto would be lighter. ?
Re: Competition Winch Tech
pto does not go backwards and modded 8274 needs a few batteries.
your right hydro is expensive but do you want to do it right ??
your right hydro is expensive but do you want to do it right ??
retired 4wd to a ford ranger and UTV
Re: Competition Winch Tech
QUADRACER wrote:pto does not go backwards
have I missed something or when did pto's stop spooling out in reverse gear
Re: Competition Winch Tech
QUADRACER wrote:pto does not go backwards and modded 8274 needs a few batteries.
your right hydro is expensive but do you want to do it right ??
8274 doesn't need a 'few batteries' but one good one is sufficient.
I have only ever had one battery in mine and over 20 years of use has never come close to flattening the battery. Have even winched without engine running as well, but secret is a good quality battery.
A modified 8274 with 24v is the winch of choice in Aussie for winch competitions, including the big GU Nissans etc.
Re: Competition Winch Tech
Was impressed with your rig on the weekend, thought you'd just drive everything!!
I was co-driving in Nissan with PTO, plenty of grunt and it winches in and out, sticks out the front a little too much for my liking but incab air operated freespool is a god send!!
We put winch camera above it the week before kiwi, (turns on with micro switch under pto lockout cover) means not only does the driver get a view of winch and how its spooling he knows when he has cover open and doesn't leave winch on by mistake.
2nd truck in our team (Hilux) I had a bit to do with building, supercheap winch (rather slow) mounted behind driver under rear deck (driver can reach freespool from seat!) through a few pulleys including one out the back and along guides to the front, we have 1.1m from drum to first pulley and it spooled up nicely everytime. One of the reasons we did it rear mount was to move more weight over the back in this truck. Other than broken winch cable and being a little slow it all worked well. I think winch will be upgraded before too long.... (just don't tell his missis!!)
On my trials truck I have a simple superwinch to bolt on the front (take it off for trials), enough winching power for my sub 1200kg truck! and easy to take on/off. Down side is freespool still on front and no camera yet...
Dogg.
I was co-driving in Nissan with PTO, plenty of grunt and it winches in and out, sticks out the front a little too much for my liking but incab air operated freespool is a god send!!
We put winch camera above it the week before kiwi, (turns on with micro switch under pto lockout cover) means not only does the driver get a view of winch and how its spooling he knows when he has cover open and doesn't leave winch on by mistake.
2nd truck in our team (Hilux) I had a bit to do with building, supercheap winch (rather slow) mounted behind driver under rear deck (driver can reach freespool from seat!) through a few pulleys including one out the back and along guides to the front, we have 1.1m from drum to first pulley and it spooled up nicely everytime. One of the reasons we did it rear mount was to move more weight over the back in this truck. Other than broken winch cable and being a little slow it all worked well. I think winch will be upgraded before too long.... (just don't tell his missis!!)
On my trials truck I have a simple superwinch to bolt on the front (take it off for trials), enough winching power for my sub 1200kg truck! and easy to take on/off. Down side is freespool still on front and no camera yet...
Dogg.
It's just more fun in a lada !!
- Checkerhead
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
DMcCready wrote:What do you run? electric? Hydraulic?
Think of it this way.
If you over load an electric. Motor stalls or rope breaks.
If you over load a pto. Shear pin/weak point breaks or rope breaks.
If you over load a hydraulic. Relief pops with zero consequence, try again.
DMcCready wrote:Hows your freespool operated?
Pneumatic is easiest for me, but it's personal. Some cable set ups work well.
DMcCready wrote:Mid Mounted?
Do you want to be able to pull in a full length of rope on a funny angle and not wory about your rope building on one side?
Do you want to be able to pull the rope out easily, ie, do you want it to load on the drum consistently and cleanly?
If yes to these, then you must run a rear/mid mount the winch.
DMcCready wrote:What tricks do you use to help keep the rope layering correctly?
Try to get a meter between your first guide and the drum. (depends how wide your drum is of course). In my shortest set up I had nearly 900 to the first guide and the drum about 450 wide. Always spooled beautifully (speed makes a difference, slow ass elec runs slow and spools nice). Only spooling issues were when we used the "rapid recovery device" and that built a nice pyramid of rope in the middle of the drum (nearly 3 meters per second rope speed though).
Elec, hydro and pto can all be made to freespool nicely, how much effort are you prepared to put in?
If you want a fast anything, then you may pay a weight penalty. (bigger pump, multiple elec motors, bigger drums...)
Elecs are very useable. Completely independend of the drive train, start stop as you please, no lever/valve dance to do. They maybe slower pulling, but if you can set it up and stow it fast, that may make the difference.
Basically, if you have one winch, it prob wants to be elec. (what else will get you back on your wheels when you're upside down).
If you have two winchs, make the second one mechanical (pto/hydro) and good for the hard but less technical pulls (obviously make it as good as you can at everything, but being realistic). Make your elec as quick as poss for the technical pulls.
That is based on my amazing wealth of knowledge coming from never having won an event (though I have used all three winch types in competitions).
Be warned that this advice may well be worth what you paid for it.
Arron.
(aka shortylux, if I can ever get back into my old account)
Supercharged VH45 Surf safari winch truck in the making
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
Oh also got a cheap reverse camera looking down onto drum.. as said before. .can keep an eye on things. . Its even in color. .
Re: Competition Winch Tech
[quote="Checkerhead
That is based on my amazing wealth of knowledge coming from never having won an event (though I have used all three winch types in competitions).
Be warned that this advice may well be worth what you paid for it.
Arron.
(aka shortylux, if I can ever get back into my old account)[/quote]
Don't be so hard on yourself Aaron .............
You placed 3rd in class on the weekend, and only 15 points behind 2nd.
Had you managed to get to last stage in time even with a DNF you would have come second ..........
That is based on my amazing wealth of knowledge coming from never having won an event (though I have used all three winch types in competitions).
Be warned that this advice may well be worth what you paid for it.
Arron.
(aka shortylux, if I can ever get back into my old account)[/quote]
Don't be so hard on yourself Aaron .............
You placed 3rd in class on the weekend, and only 15 points behind 2nd.
Had you managed to get to last stage in time even with a DNF you would have come second ..........
Re: Competition Winch Tech
derk wrote:QUADRACER wrote:pto does not go backwards
have I missed something or when did pto's stop spooling out in reverse gear
ok, does not go backwards , when you are driving forward.
Ask Stan Goodman.
and for you that dont know Stan, hes the legend of winch comps.
retired 4wd to a ford ranger and UTV
Re: Competition Winch Tech
Doesnt really matter what type you go for, it just needs to be 100% reliable all the time.
Re: Competition Winch Tech
[/quote="QUADRACER"]
ok, does not go backwards , when you are driving forward.
[/quote]
Why would you want the winch going backwards when you are driving forwards? I can't think of a situation you would want to....
Although the Nissan PTO will allow you to spool out while driving forward and there is a quite rare version of the Landcruiser PTO output drive which has a forward / reverse selector like the Nissan PTO - but you then select the speed via the gearbox - so you can actually spool OUT in 5th gear.
ok, does not go backwards , when you are driving forward.
[/quote]
Why would you want the winch going backwards when you are driving forwards? I can't think of a situation you would want to....
Although the Nissan PTO will allow you to spool out while driving forward and there is a quite rare version of the Landcruiser PTO output drive which has a forward / reverse selector like the Nissan PTO - but you then select the speed via the gearbox - so you can actually spool OUT in 5th gear.
Last edited by muddy on Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Competition Winch Tech
QUADRACER wrote:derk wrote:QUADRACER wrote:pto does not go backwards
have I missed something or when did pto's stop spooling out in reverse gear
ok, does not go backwards , when you are driving forward.
Ask Stan Goodman.
and for you that dont know Stan, hes the legend of winch comps.
it will if you've got a forward/reverse pto you can spool out or wind in in any forward gear....... or reverse gear if you want but it'd be pretty slow
anyway back to the rest of the argument this isn't about which direction you can spool on a pto winch
Re: Competition Winch Tech
driving around a tree or peg on an off camber, you can lower yourself down , and control the rate of decent.
ask any one that does winch comps.
can do this with electric also.
ask any one that does winch comps.
can do this with electric also.
retired 4wd to a ford ranger and UTV
- skid
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
In regards to getting it to spool on drum nicely............
if you cannot fit it either mid or rear mounted.........
did you get a look at Scaifeys truck from the bush pigs with his hinged eye on the front
if you cannot fit it either mid or rear mounted.........
did you get a look at Scaifeys truck from the bush pigs with his hinged eye on the front
80 Series on 35" creepies, manual with twin factory lockers.
0272417757
*CHILLAX BRO.*
0272417757
*CHILLAX BRO.*
Re: Competition Winch Tech
DMcCready wrote:OK so last weekend gave me a taste that I am excited to see where it may lead
For the last couple of years I have watched the winch competition scene in Europe explode. The recent Ultra4 race in Scotland was epic.
It doesnt really matter what happens. The one thing you can count on is you will need to winch at some point...
This is a call to the winch competition guys. What do you run? electric? Hydraulic? Hows your freespool operated? Mid Mounted? What tricks do you use to help keep the rope layering correctly?
Ive got a few ideas But any input before I crack out the tools would be awsome
i noticed a few trucks with the sprung loaded a-frame with a round hawse in front they seem to work great approx 800mm to 1m away from the winch so rope was winding to centre then naturally spooling out to the sides will be going on my truck for sure.
as for winching Im toying with making a god winch running off the safari pto this then means no need for brake to be fitted as the pto in gear is it.
however std safari pto can be quick just depends on how hard ya stamp on the noise peddle just watch that lunatic Arron (aka shortylux).
the main thing i did notice is 30m doesnt cut it most teams on my hazard were resetting 3 times when once or twice would have worked much better and faster.
The key to this type of comp is teamwork........
the driver has all faith in the navis ........
for teams a hazard that requires winching while first truck is being set 2nds rope is connected to 1st freespalling 3rd to 2nd as 1 goes it taking others rope with him saves time and effort .
as for winch cam couple yrs ago I had mine setup worked great but nobody else id seen then had one i will be add another to new truck well worth the cost of about $80
i have a few other ideas im thinking of using on new toy if your keen give me yell
WARNING:
Insanity has replaced reason in the modification of this vehicle
you can follow me, but its gunna hurt
Insanity has replaced reason in the modification of this vehicle
you can follow me, but its gunna hurt
- Crash bandicoot
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
QUADRACER wrote:derk wrote:QUADRACER wrote:pto does not go backwards
have I missed something or when did pto's stop spooling out in reverse gear
ok, does not go backwards , when you are driving forward.
Ask Stan Goodman.
and for you that dont know Stan, hes the legend of winch comps.
I wouldn't go that far, Any one could have that sort of truck with the resources he's got invested in those three cruisers.
And as for spooling out a PTO winch when your running up a muddy incline dragging a strop bow shackle block and a winch cable the P.T.O can run it off faster in gear then you will ever pull it.
we had 60 meters on the drum plus another 20 on the front bar work. I think we did the river up to the airstrip in 2 pulls with the patrol and 3 and 4 with the hilux's
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
- Checkerhead
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
LR90NZ wrote:Don't be so hard on yourself Aaron .............
You placed 3rd in class on the weekend, and only 15 points behind 2nd.
Had you managed to get to last stage in time even with a DNF you would have come second ..........
You are very kind. 3rd of three is not the result we were looking for. Next time will be better.
Supercharged VH45 Surf safari winch truck in the making
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
Crash bandicoot wrote:we had 60 meters on the drum plus another 20 on the front bar work.
shit how big is your drum and what size rope are you using to get that much on there
- Crash bandicoot
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
derk wrote:Crash bandicoot wrote:we had 60 meters on the drum plus another 20 on the front bar work.
shit how big is your drum and what size rope are you using to get that much on there
dyneema 12mm it's about 580 to 600 odd dollars for 60 meter's, depends where you shop..
figured it'd snap it so just wound on as much as we could get on the drum. lol
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
Re: Competition Winch Tech
Being a newbie in the winch comp scene (Navi) we have set up the truck with a Toyota PTO on the front with air operated freespool.
And an electric high mount in the rear again with air freespool.
After running a few comps we have settled into a routine of using the PTO for long simple hard pulls thru bogs etc etc.
And then the Electric for more technical stuff.
The electric can also be setup to winch ourselves backwards using a pulley block.
Also with two winches we can use one to hold us in position while we reset the other if required.
For my club truck I have a mid mounted Toyota pto with air freespool. It works great... And also fitting a rear mount electric after being inspired by my Drivers winch truck....
And an electric high mount in the rear again with air freespool.
After running a few comps we have settled into a routine of using the PTO for long simple hard pulls thru bogs etc etc.
And then the Electric for more technical stuff.
The electric can also be setup to winch ourselves backwards using a pulley block.
Also with two winches we can use one to hold us in position while we reset the other if required.
For my club truck I have a mid mounted Toyota pto with air freespool. It works great... And also fitting a rear mount electric after being inspired by my Drivers winch truck....
Cheers Calvin
KZJ78 Landcruiser Prado...
KZJ78 Landcruiser Prado...
Re: Competition Winch Tech
Crash bandicoot wrote:
dyneema 12mm it's about 580 to 600 odd dollars for 60 meter's, depends where you shop..
figured it'd snap it so just wound on as much as we could get on the drum. lol
what sort of drum setup have you got in there you don't get much more than around 25m of 12mm rope on a factory drum, have you got some pic's
- Crash bandicoot
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Re: Competition Winch Tech
derk wrote:Crash bandicoot wrote:
dyneema 12mm it's about 580 to 600 odd dollars for 60 meter's, depends where you shop..
figured it'd snap it so just wound on as much as we could get on the drum. lol
what sort of drum setup have you got in there you don't get much more than around 25m of 12mm rope on a factory drum, have you got some pic's
Can't give too much away but the winch is ex army.
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
Re: Competition Winch Tech
skid wrote:In regards to getting it to spool on drum nicely............
if you cannot fit it either mid or rear mounted.........
did you get a look at Scaifeys truck from the bush pigs with his hinged eye on the front
Yea Skid I did have a quick look at his contraption looked like it worked well.
I am thinking about something similar... When I move the radiator to the back of the buggy I am going to have a think about moving the winch back into that space. Would give me about 500mm of straight pull from the fairlead to the drum. Way I see it anything helps
There's gotta be some rocks round here SOMEWHERE!
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