discovery or range rover

[mudsurfv6]

hi guys

someone has asked me but I don't know the answer. which would make a better 60% off road (safari to hard yakka/club class comp stuff) 40% on road vehicle? mid to late 90s 5 door V8 petrol. 3.9 disco, 4.0 RR or 4.6 RR?
are they all beam axle front? coils? disks? whats the deal with air bag sus? aluminium panels? parts? accessories? full time or part time 4wd? hi/lo? prices look to be about the same.
cheers

[lax2wlg]

So you're looking at the P38 model Range Rover... the last of the solid axles.

The Disco is a simpler vehicle overall. IMO the Range Rover has much better physical dimensions (not top heavy like the Disco).

They both have a radius arm front suspension that LR copied from the Ford Bronco when they released the original RR in 1970. Its a good setup for on/off road compromise but the front wheel travel is limited (as with all radius arm designs).

Air bag susp - rip it all out and put in some factory coil springs instead. They go straight in.

Yes all live axle front, but the P38 Range Rover front axle is rumoured to have been developed by Dana. It has open knuckles but with rubber boots, unlike any other Land Rover product. Whereas the Disco has a standard LR front axle, plenty of parts available.

Hopefully Timmy511 will chime in, he seems to be a rational and sane Land Rover owner with credible experience.

Also Ralfie will get stuck in soon, telling you that it doesn't matter which one you get, since Land Rovers are the best vehicle ever made anyway, and thats all there is to it.

But the reality is the Disco will be easier to service & find spare parts for at a good price.

[mazdamike]

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/t ... roject-P38 really good read. disco 2s have the same diff as the p38 just flipped from what I under stand. as for flex with the arms just take the front bolt out of one side when off road

[lax2wlg]

as for flex with the arms just take the front bolt out of one side when off road

I realise that plenty of people do it but f** that. Think about how much a differential tries to twist up and down under load. Now you're reducing its abiliity to do that by 50%, and concentrating all the resistance on one corner. Thats just asking for a broken d/shaft UJ or even pinion shaft IMO. Then there's the whole dive/squat thing.

The wheel travel of a radius arm setup is limited by the bushings.

At the least, the one bolt trick will bind the bushings up and quickly tear them to pieces. Then you're entire front axle won't stay located.

Each to their own though.

[turoa]

as for flex with the arms just take the front bolt out of one side when off road

I realise that plenty of people do it but f** that. Think about how much a differential tries to twist up and down under load. Now you're reducing its abiliity to do that by 50%, and concentrating all the resistance on one corner. Thats just asking for a broken d/shaft UJ or even pinion shaft IMO. Then there's the whole dive/squat thing.

The wheel travel of a radius arm setup is limited by the bushings.

At the least, the one bolt trick will bind the bushings up and quickly tear them to pieces. Then you're entire front axle won't stay located.

Each to their own though.

Hey mate, not sure if you're trolling or not but you seem to post misleading information on a regular basis . If you're not trolling, here's a quick lesson on radius front suspensions

One bolt in the radius arm is exactly the same as having a 3 link front end in terms of stress (more or less in terms of bolt loading. Obviously the leverage will be a bit different, but reasonably negligible).

Its does not affect dive/squat in any way, only roll resistance.

Its not the bushes that limit a radius arm front end, but the design of the radius arm effectively turns the front diff into one big anti sway bar

With one bolt out, it just flexes the bushes like any rear suspension does. Yes it does wear them out a little more quickly, but its comparable to rear suspension and other metalastic bushes with the same loading.

But to show rovers do flex, heres one with all bolts installed (albeit it does have holey bushes)

[turoa]

hi guys

someone has asked me but I don't know the answer. which would make a better 60% off road (safari to hard yakka/club class comp stuff) 40% on road vehicle? mid to late 90s 5 door V8 petrol. 3.9 disco, 4.0 RR or 4.6 RR?
are they all beam axle front? coils? disks? whats the deal with air bag sus? aluminium panels? parts? accessories? full time or part time 4wd? hi/lo? prices look to be about the same.
cheers

I would go for a disco. The p38's are fantastic trucks but I would never consider one for offroad use as there are far too many electronics to be considered reliable offroad. A disco with a 4.6 transplant would be better

In terms of disco 1 (I'm not sure I'd go down the disco 2 offroad use for a more offroad orientated vehicle). Discs all round, beam axle front, parts are cheap and easy to get (from landrover suppliers such as LandRover spares). They have alloy bonnets and possibly front gaurds but not much else. Coils all round.

Fulltime 4wd, but an easy conversion to part time if you wish.

In terms of accessories, as easy to get as japanese 4x4's. There are a hell of a lot of accessories available here, and even more if you import from the UK. The only real difficulty we have with parts here is getting a decent set of wheels, but they are out there.

Strength wise, they are limited by the centre's. When you wheelspin them, they tend to break the pin in the diff, and throw the guts out the back. Lockers sort this issue out. By pegging the crown wheel's (google it) you sort out ALL strength issues there. Aftermarket CV's and axles are easily available.

Facelift vehicles (Changeover was in 94) have the stronger 24 spline axles.

Would I recommend one? Hell yes! They sound good, are one of the best offroad suspensions you can get (without serious modifications) and are super comfortable. They are not top heavy and share the same suspension, running gear, chassis and much of the body as every Classic rangerover up to the p38's.

Any other questions, ask away

[mudsurfv6]

disco 1 pre 94, disco 2 after 94? or?

[lax2wlg]

One bolt in the radius arm is exactly the same as having a 3 link front end in terms of stress

Bullshit. Why do you think a 3-link suspension has an upper link? Also a true linked suspension uses links - it doesnt use pin-type bushes

Its does not affect dive/squat in any way, only roll resistance.

What, in reality??! So you mean to tell me that you remove the front bolt from one of the radius arms in a V8, full time 4wd, then floor the throttle, slam on the brakes, and there will be no difference whatsoever in way the front suspension behaves itself?? Bahh!!

Its not the bushes that limit a radius arm front end,

I said that The bushes limit the potential wheel travel, which they do.

Hey mate, not sure if you're trolling or not but you seem to post misleading information on a regular basis . If you're not trolling, here's a quick lesson on radius front suspensions

Trolling? How so? Misleading information? What else have I posted that is misleading? Please be specific so that I can back myself up.

Anyway junior thanks for the 'lesson'. As I said, each to his own, if you want to remove a radius arm bolt, go ahead and do it.
Theres no need to be condescending

[turoa]

disco 1 pre 94, disco 2 after 94? or?

Disco 2's started in 98. I'd be looking at a facelift one so 94 onwards

[mudsurfv6]

we were looking around the 96-97.

[turoa]

we were looking around the 96-97.

Ah well you'll be right then. Should be a relatively good truck with a few minor tweaks

[bryan.daley]

hi guys

someone has asked me but I don't know the answer. which would make a better 60% off road (safari to hard yakka/club class comp stuff) 40% on road vehicle? mid to late 90s 5 door V8 petrol. 3.9 disco, 4.0 RR or 4.6 RR?
are they all beam axle front? coils? disks? whats the deal with air bag sus? aluminium panels? parts? accessories? full time or part time 4wd? hi/lo? prices look to be about the same.
cheers

Rule 1 off road, Centre Diff Lock
Avoid models with no centre diff lock. P38 and some DiscoII's mid years I think.
All older models have beam axels. RR Sport Disco3/4 are independent.

Out of those choices 3.9 Disco. Parts are easy.

Had a 98 P38 years ago, great on road and OK off road. The traction control worked OK but not a substitute for a locking centre. Traction and momentum was lost earlier than with a diff lock model. Common faults pre 2002 model. Strong though.
Had a RR classic - awesome but significantly modified.
I almost went for a Disco II with centre lock but eventually went Disco III. Not really good for hard yakka as too expensive and very shinny)
Have a defender for off road but for some reason is not on your list!

[mudsurfv6]

sorry, don't like the look of them.

keep the comments coming.

[Weemsy]

I would go for a pre 94 disco 1. After 94 they have abs which is very problematic I found.
I think the 94 model is the facelift disco 1 which (in my opinion) look a bit better around the headlights.

[muddymatt1973]

Having owned and driven almost all of them, I thought I would add my 2C.

Disco 1 - cheap as chips but lots are looking pretty tired by now. Early ones had no anti-roll bars either so they flex even better. Had centre diff lock. Great off road. Check for rust behind rear bumper and round the roof windows.

Disco 2 - better engines (no dizzy and more robust injection) stronger axles (exposed but booted cv's) some lack centre diff and rely on traction control but this can be retro fitted. Rear air suspension which works really well if people can be bothered with simple maintenance. Great tow vehicles too.

Classic Rangerover - Amazing soft supple off road ride - like a drunk at closing time on the road! You sail a classic between the hedges. Getting hard to find a nice one now. Alloy panels hide rust at base of A and B pillars. Open the big heavy doors and see if they sag. Carb motors empty the tank like there is a hole in it! Inj better. I had an ex-police (uk) 3.9efi with 5 speed and I regret selling it everyday. The classic RR is (IMHO) the reason LR have the image and sales they have today. I admit I am biased but I LOVE em.

P38 RR - avoid unless seriously cheap. Electronic everything is ok but unreliable electronics are not. Plus they just don't look right with dents and pinstripes! - edit and you look like a drug dealer

[Timmy511]

personally id got for the disco 1.

if you go for a v8, youll pick one up for under 3k with a wof and that leaves money to play with upgrading it, the best thing is you can buy ones for spares for around the 1k mark off the road, cheap engines and gearboxes!

its the same for a classic range rovers and parts will inter change from one to the other.

get a set of hd half shafts and CVs from the uk, then build a pair of 4pin centers or lockers for the diff heads and youll have a pretty bullet proof toy.

a mega jolt/squirt kit would go along way to helping the v8 in water.