axle swaps

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Mattman
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axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:31 pm

I am looking at a TDi Disco. Plans would be 33in simexs, front and rear lockers. Use it as a club truck.

Is it worth chucking land cruiser or safari axles under it or are the aftermarket Landrover bits worth upgrading to?

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Big » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:36 pm

if you want to keep it std.. then ashcrofts ( spelling) for sure.. or if you want to engineer then anything.. :lol: I think for the most , most go for Nissan axles.. but Toyota ones are just as good imho..

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:42 pm

I don't want to get into a Nissan/Toyota battle haha.

Will the Ashcroft gear stand up to medium levels of abuse?

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Big » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:51 pm

Mattman wrote:I don't want to get into a Nissan/Toyota battle haha.

Will the Ashcroft gear stand up to medium levels of abuse?

they will take what ever you can throw at it.. :wink: check out some of the youtube vids in Europe with the 2 disco's.. orange ones.. they have ashcrofts and they run 37's I think.. :shock: for a land drover if they are std that's unheard of.. :lol: :lol: as they just snap like twigs..lol

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:10 pm

Lol.

Does anyone in nz sell the Ashcroft gear or do you need to import it?

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Crash bandicoot » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:23 pm

Mattman wrote:Lol.

Does anyone in nz sell the Ashcroft gear or do you need to import it?


probably be cheaper to import them anyway :shock:
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Big » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:28 pm

Crash bandicoot wrote:
Mattman wrote:Lol.

Does anyone in nz sell the Ashcroft gear or do you need to import it?


probably be cheaper to import them anyway :shock:

what he said.. :wink: :roll: land rover really.. :lol: :mrgreen:

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:39 pm

Just priced the full Ashcroft upgrade kit for front and rear.

2500 pounds. F & R lockers, F & R axles, drive flanges, modified stub axles, cv's and diff pegging kits. Plus shipping.

Be around 5.5k NZD. Prolly similar cost to do land cruiser or safari axles with arbs and engineering and cert.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Team Tonka » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:58 pm

If you drive sensibly the standard axles with lockers will be ok for 33's.

However using Safari axles has the advantage of being able to change the diff ratio's to allow for the bigger tyres. Most are 4.11 which is about the right change from your 3.54's. They are a bit wider too, which will help the tyres clear the front control arms on full lock. Technically you need to cert the bigger tyres anyway so the safari option would work out cheaper, assuming you can do the work. Service parts are cheaper and easier to come by too.
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Re: axle swaps

Postby lax2wlg » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:59 am

Morning Matt
Theres lots of us on the sideline hesitant to comment probably.

I'll say a couple of things but will probably get hung out to dry.

Later Discos (facelift onwards?) had 24 spline axles.

Those Ashcroft (like Longfields) will offer significantly higher impact resistance at the expense of reduced service life (wear). Hence why a lot of people don't like running them in a full time 4x4 vehicle which does a decent amount of road KMs

Don't know if you've accounted for aftermarket R&Ps in your pricing schedule.

Its possible to do a part time 4x4 conversion on those Land Rover products pretty easily.

The Nissan/Toyota FJ80 rear axle wouldn't require ARB lockers from a strength point of view, lockrites would be fine. Even modded Nissan LSD, you've seem one of those things in action Matt. Tighter than a nun's axe wound.

FJ80 rear/Nissan Patrol front due to offset rear transfer output is a known combination that works well. Both available in 4.11 ratios.

Check out muddyplumbers build.
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:01 am

Thanks Josh!

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Crash bandicoot » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:32 pm

Mattman wrote:Just priced the full Ashcroft upgrade kit for front and rear.

2500 pounds. F & R lockers, F & R axles, drive flanges, modified stub axles, cv's and diff pegging kits. Plus shipping.

Be around 5.5k NZD. Prolly similar cost to do land cruiser or safari axles with arbs and engineering and cert.


ouch, that's half a safari without the reliabilty issues.
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Big » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:44 pm

Crash bandicoot wrote:
Mattman wrote:Just priced the full Ashcroft upgrade kit for front and rear.

2500 pounds. F & R lockers, F & R axles, drive flanges, modified stub axles, cv's and diff pegging kits. Plus shipping.

Be around 5.5k NZD. Prolly similar cost to do land cruiser or safari axles with arbs and engineering and cert.


ouch, that's half a safari without the reliabilty issues.

I think what crash is saying.. reading between the lines save yaself a lot of headaches and buy a safari.. and get way better reliability and much stronger..LR are bloody awful :mrgreen: I had one and mate.. couldn't pull the skin of a rice pudding.. :lol: :lol: :wink:

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:54 pm

You don't own a safari Big and neither does Crash. How boring would the world be if everyone drove Safaris.

Personally I am not a fan of them and probably won't ever own one.

The power output of a 200TDi is pretty close to my 3.1 Bighorn and a 2.7TD Nissan.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Big » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:07 pm

Mattman wrote:You don't own a safari Big and neither does Crash. How boring would the world be if everyone drove Safaris.

Personally I am not a fan of them and probably won't ever own one.

The power output of a 200TDi is pretty close to my 3.1 Bighorn and a 2.7TD Nissan.

:lol: fair enough as ill never on a safari either.. :lol: the're um soo industrial.. :roll: :lol: :mrgreen:

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Re: axle swaps

Postby zukmeista » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:14 pm

Mattman wrote:You don't own a safari Big and neither does Crash. How boring would the world be if everyone drove Safaris.

Personally I am not a fan of them and probably won't ever own one.

The power output of a 200TDi is pretty close to my 3.1 Bighorn and a 2.7TD Nissan.


If you think Ruggers are gutless prepare to be amazed, walking is just about faster than a 200tdi and YES I have driven one. Made my Suzuki feel like a friggen rocket in comparison! :lol: And to spend 5k upgrading diffs is insanity, you could buy a whole safari for that...

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:20 pm

Not really interested in your opinion on what I should be doing zukmeista.

I am after info on axle swaps thanks.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Crash bandicoot » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:30 pm

Mattman wrote:Not really interested in your opinion on what I should be doing zukmeista.

I am after info on axle swaps thanks.


well the shopping list might included

GQ safari axle set,
rear LSD head from late model HG43 /H223b for the front (or locker)
radius arms.
drive shaft.
drop boxes
steering box/drag link.
(take it your not worried about sway bars?)

might as well use the whole 9 yards of nissan up the front and move the drop boxes and spring seats forward on the chassi rails.
and then create a nis/over drive shaft out of the bits to suit length last.

same up the rear....

wouldn't it be easier just to bolt the rover body to the nissan chassi.?

there is a front axle with the reinforcing already done to the knuckles etc on TM, think it's im palmy north. 600ish from memory

What was the reason for going with a toyota rear ?<<<< never mind just remembered they run an off set diff head :oops:
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:41 pm

Thanks for the info Crash. I would want the truck certed so probably need sway bars.

The Rover is a 100in wheelbase so it sits in between a lwb and a swb

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Re: axle swaps

Postby BadCo » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:51 pm

Crash bandicoot wrote:<snip>
there is a front axle with the reinforcing already done to the knuckles etc on TM, think it's im palmy north. 600ish from memory


Do you have a link for this? My many saved searches on trademe have not told me about it.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby derk » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:02 pm

if you were going to stick with the landy axles under it the tierods aren't too keen on 33+ tyres you need to carry a spare straight one in the back :D

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Re: axle swaps

Postby turoa » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:30 pm

Stick with Std 24 spline landy gear. People knock it but it doesn't really break that often (especially on only 33's and a tdi). With pegged cw&p and locked centres I think you would be very hard pressed to break it unless being exceptionally hard on the gear :wink: . Only worth trying it out before spending a whole lot of time on modifying stuff! DB's been all around Australia without breaking his :mrgreen:

If you do feel the need to modify and go to Japanese gear, Its common (not so much here, but in aus) to go

Front:
Nissan GQ or GU front end.
GQ/GU Radius arms
Custom Drag Link (Nissan one end and rover steering box the other)
Custom panhard (rover one end, Nissan axle the other, however I like to use an Ohallaran joint on the rover end)
If not wanting a custom drag link, can machine a taper adapter for the knuckle.
Switch to rover spring perches to use rover spring/shock setup. They bolt on and you can buy the weld on mounts cheaply.
Brakes on a rover front are 2 lines per caliper. This needs to be teed up to a single line per caliper.

Using the standard nissan radius arms and mounts will allow it to bolt straight into the rover chassis (nissan spring mounts even line up but you would have nothing to bolt the shock to).

Rear:
80 Series rear end. This is needed as they are offset (like a rover rear). Centered rear diffs will result in vibrations on the road.
Standard rover lower arm mounts (can cut these off a donor housing)
Upper A frame mount will either need to be stolen off a 110 salisbury (as they are a bolt on mount) or you can use a donor disco/RR housing and remove the a frame mount from that, reshape and modify to fit the 80 diff. If you ask muddyplumber he may be able to put up some photos of how I did his one.
Standard rover spring mounts (they are the same as the front and bolt onto a flat mount). Can either purchase these or cut off a donor housing
Standard rover shock mounts cut off a donor housing.

In terms of driveshafts, I can't remember if Ive got this the right way round or not but
Front - Lathe out the spigot slightly to fit the driveshaft and redrill
Rear - Run a bead of weld around the inside and lathe out to the correct dia to suit rover driveshaft (as the cruiser dshaft has a slightly larger dia lip) and redrill
Standard drives shafts are the correct length for this configuration

Hope this helps 8)

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Re: axle swaps

Postby BadCo » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:52 pm

Or buy a ~1980's 110 and fit 33's with standard drive train.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby lax2wlg » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:01 am

turoa wrote:Stick with Std 24 spline landy gear. People knock it but it doesn't really break that often (especially on only 33's and a tdi). With pegged cw&p and locked centres I think you would be very hard pressed to break it unless being exceptionally hard on the gear :wink: . Only worth trying it out before spending a whole lot of time on modifying stuff! DB's been all around Australia without breaking his :mrgreen:


Then how come you put Japanese axles in your Land Rover project?
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:45 am

Cheers Turoa

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Re: axle swaps

Postby turoa » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:48 am

lax2wlg wrote:
turoa wrote:Stick with Std 24 spline landy gear. People knock it but it doesn't really break that often (especially on only 33's and a tdi). With pegged cw&p and locked centres I think you would be very hard pressed to break it unless being exceptionally hard on the gear :wink: . Only worth trying it out before spending a whole lot of time on modifying stuff! DB's been all around Australia without breaking his :mrgreen:


Then how come you put Japanese axles in your Land Rover project?


That's a very different scenario there Josh. The first one I started I used Hilux gear because at the time thats what I thought was right. That was almost 10 years ago. The s1 I built got disco axles and the second s2 I built got hilux gear because thats what I had floating around the back yard. I also wasn't just running 33" simexes and a TDI, nor could I afford to put lockers in for a stronger centre. Theres a whole world of difference between rover (especially series) 10 spline and 24 spline

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Snafu » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:51 am

Matt if your going bigger than 33" then you will probably also need to change Diff Ratios. Ashcroft also have a ratio calculator on their website but I was looking at Ashcroft 4.12's for mine and all the gear from Ashcroft also (when finance allows for me).

The Two Turkish TD5 Twins have the following specifications (although a couple of changes have been made since they gave me this including a rear winch on DZG):-
1: Registration ''DZG''...2003
Ashcroft Axles and 4.11 ring & pinion, Diff pegging, Custom ecu, K&N air filter, Eaton Lockers no-spin/arb, Britpart performance exhaust, Warn 9500ti, 37/13/16 Super Swamper Bogger, 10/16'' rims, Safari Snorkel, 8'' Custom lift kit with Terrafirma Mega Shocks and bumpers, 5cm spacer, Custom ram assist, 200+hp & 450+nm

2: 'Registration 'JIF''...2000
Ashcroft Axles and 4.75 ring & pinion, Diff pegging, Custom ecu, K&N air filter, Huge intercooler, Eaton Locker no-spin/ARB, Britpart Performance Exhaust, Warn 16.500ti/Tabor 12000, Safari Snorkel, 37/13/16 Super Swamper Bogger, 10/16'' rims, 8''Custom lift kit with Terrafirma Mega Shocks and Bumpers, 5cm spacer, OMP Seats, Custom ram assist, 200+hp & 450+nm

The Rims they use are no name brand Chinese made Rims 10x16, and custom Turkish made +8" springs

There are three others also set up now with same Specs that do trips with the Twins. If you check Facebook/OFF-ROAD links to their videos there.
1999 Disco1, 300TDi, Snorkel, ARB Lockers, 9.5k Winch, Custom Bars & Sliders, +5in Lift. Silverstone MT-117
2007 Disco3 TDV6, eDiff, ARB Front Locker, Snorkel, ARB & Kaymar Bars, 12K Winch, Bash plates, Sliders, Llams, Maxxis MT's

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Snafu » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:55 am

Another alternative to the larger Tyres is Portal Axles
German Company have bolt on Kits for Land Rover and a couple of other makes here
http://www.killeraxles.com/html/welcome.html
1999 Disco1, 300TDi, Snorkel, ARB Lockers, 9.5k Winch, Custom Bars & Sliders, +5in Lift. Silverstone MT-117
2007 Disco3 TDV6, eDiff, ARB Front Locker, Snorkel, ARB & Kaymar Bars, 12K Winch, Bash plates, Sliders, Llams, Maxxis MT's

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Re: axle swaps

Postby LR90NZ » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:37 pm

Snafu wrote:Another alternative to the larger Tyres is Portal Axles
German Company have bolt on Kits for Land Rover and a couple of other makes here
http://www.killeraxles.com/html/welcome.html


Ivan, Very nice and on most people want list, but not needed here and now.

He did state he only wanted to fit 33's and use as club vehicle, very much like you have done.
How many axles and CV's have you broken over the years with your Silverstones etc?

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Snafu » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:18 am

None. but I do tend to use the twin lockers to spread the load if it gets tough going.
1999 Disco1, 300TDi, Snorkel, ARB Lockers, 9.5k Winch, Custom Bars & Sliders, +5in Lift. Silverstone MT-117
2007 Disco3 TDV6, eDiff, ARB Front Locker, Snorkel, ARB & Kaymar Bars, 12K Winch, Bash plates, Sliders, Llams, Maxxis MT's

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