axle swaps

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Mattman
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:28 am

Thanks for all the info guys.

Those twins are sick!

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 44jetboat » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:05 pm

I've got a 300 Tdi manual . I run 235 85 16s. Bout 32 . Running more boost and fuel. Put in twin Chinese lockers .

Never been through any axles cvs etc. want to go to 33s next . But think I will go to 255 85 16s. As my thinking is skinner tyre is less weight and less spinning mass when shock loading .

But with all axles locked and centre diff nice to have all 4 wheels spinning at same speed . Not one wheel stopped and other spinning at twice the speed.

I brought this disco believing all the hype about chocolate diff etc. but yet to see it. Well my truck at least .

Will def follow ya build if ya do the swap. :D

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:11 pm

Nice. Post some pics. How is it power wise?

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 44jetboat » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:45 pm

Power is Good. I'm running a full front intercooler , straight through exhuast , boost at 18 psi and pump wound up. Exhuast Temps are all good. tows my 22 ft fishing boat fine and still gets bout 850 KS to a tank ( not towing tho ) .
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Mattman
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:31 pm

What are the Chinese lockers like?

How are the ratios?

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Checkerhead » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:42 pm

4wd fibreglass in Hamilton was (or is?) importing the Chinese lockers. When they first got some they did a few full disassembles and sent a few bits away for hardness testing (as well as some genuine Toyota and genuine ARB parts) and they came back pretty good. Heard that the parts themselves were good but some of the assembly was not as good as ARB (so if you are happy to pull apart and rebuild yourself, not really a problem). There seems to be a few people running them with good results.
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Re: axle swaps

Postby skid » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:28 pm

80 Series on 35" creepies, manual with twin factory lockers.
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Re: axle swaps

Postby 44jetboat » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:39 pm

Lockers are good. Only complaint is rear is not totally sealed. Just leaks a little . But converted air con to onboard air . So run lockers off that tank and don't have a problem. Have had rear in for about 3 years now and front bout 1 year. I striped and checked both before install.

We're cheap too at about 800 per nuckle . And used 12v pump parts for running onboard air.

Should really pull out rear and replace seals but way too lazy. And it's getting cold out there lol .

Ratios are ok. Blew a transfer box about a year ago ( truck done 350000ks now so wasn't too upset) and I had a choice to go to a defender box. The high ratio is a bit better on those because they come with the 235 85 16 std. But ended up going disco.

Pulls 2250 in 5th at 100k.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:15 pm

Cool. Where did you get the lockers?

Anyone know how to ID the 24 spline vs 10 spline?

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 44jetboat » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:30 pm

Got lockers from nz runva winch I think. I think if you get a face lift disco 1 with the 300 tdi pretty sure there all 24 spline. Also if you get a auto and want more power it is easier with the non electronic pump that the later autos have.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:35 pm

Truck I am looking at is an early disco 1 200 TDI. Last time I checked runva they were $1200!

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 44jetboat » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:32 pm

Shit price gone up then. I'd just import them. Yeah early 200 will have the 10 spline. Heaps of cheap 300s on trade me. I tested a few before getting mine . Liked the 3 door thing but couldn't go past the better interior and upgraded axles.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 3DrDisco » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:12 am

If I were in your position I would stick with the stock rover running gear vs changing over to Nissan. Only for the fact that you can upgrade the Rover gear a piece at a time or as it breaks vs a big outlay to switch to Nissan gear.

From memory I don't think the 24 spline axles are all that much stronger than the 10 spline axles, in fact if memory serves me correctly, the front 10 spline axle were found to be stronger than the 24 spline and the rear 10 spline were only marginally weaker. So I wouldn't make a decision on a early model disco vs a later model disco based on this either. The biggest improvement in the later model is the interior, (dual climate control, better fans, storage, cup holders etc) and switching gearbox to the R380 over the LT77. I've personally owned 3 Rover with LT77 and 2 with R380's. One of the LT77 was twin locked and did some tough off road work and I never had a problem with it. One of the R380's was a stock standard Disco used as cheap run about/work hack and it snapped an output shaft at the traffic lights.

I'm now driving a 200 TDI disco, with front and rear ARB lockers and standard axles. Previous owner was running 35's and he did some decent off roading and never had a problem with the axles. The gearbox in this truck is the best I've had out of all my Landies. I've done a couple of trips with the standard axles and had no issues, but have since changed the rear to some McNarrama axles and the front will be changed to KAM axles and CV's only because I had them lying around at home.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby L-andy » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:31 pm

For what its worth I agree with 2DrDisco above...

I considered both options and was quite open to the idea of fitting Nissan or Toyo bits. However, I ended up upgrading steadily over a couple of years as and when I could afford with no cert required.

Other considerations at the time were:
I didn't want the truck off the road for a long period and needing a cert.
Didn't have the budget all up front.
I would need to go up a tyre size with Cruiser/Safari diffs to get the same clearance as I would get on the rover diffs.
Nice to be able to fit it all to another truck in the future without fab/welding/cert.

The Ashcroft stuff is pretty strong. I've not managed to break any of it yet (35" simex and V8). Their CVs are made by Rockford CV in Illinois who made Longfields for Bobby Long (some doubt who makes bobby's now Trailgear own the Longfield brand). Ashcroft use same 4340/300M materials tech that is used in Longfields. Ashcroft guarantee them for 5yrs for 35" tyres. Ashcroft locker is also a nice piece of kit. Much better actuator/seal arrangement than ARB. Canterbury Landrover on Hazeldean Road in Chch normally have a locker and CVs on the shelf.

The 24 v 10 spline thing would not sway me for or against a particular truck if everything else stacked up. The change was about 94 I think at the same time as 200 to 300 TDi. The diff centres are the same strength wise.

Rear:
The 24spline rear shafts IMO are stronger than the 10 spline. There are plenty of posts on the web saying that there is nothing in it but the 10s seem to break easier and are approx. 25mm dia where the 24 spline are approx. 32mm dia. The 24spline rear shafts will be fine for a TDi disco on 33"s. You cannot however fit 24 spline stock disco shafts into a 10spline axle due to differences with the hub and wheel bearing spacing. You have to swap hubs and stub axles as well. Its easier to get a 24spline axle complete from the wreckers, overhaul it on the bench, fit you locker, peg etc and swap it complete.

Front:
the 10 spline front end is probably slightly more desirable as the 24 spline shafts are tiny where they enter the CV star (its actually 32spline but smaller than the 10spline dia). The 10 spline front end has a stronger CV (23spline in the star) which can be re-used with ashcrofts front shafts (which are 24spline diff end 23 spline CV end) if you cannot afford the shafts and CVs in one go. It also means you can put a stock CV back in an emergency if you do somehow manage to break an Ashcroft one.

All coil sprung rovers (Rangie/Disco/Defender) are 3.54:1 diff ratio and will be fine for 33's but a defender transfer case would bring you back close to factory defender ratios if you needed. The stock crownwheel and pinion are actually made of pretty good stuff.. as Ashcroft found out then they had them analysed in prep for making their HD ones. Fitting a locking centre and pegging them is the key.

Andy

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:14 am

Excellent info thanks guys.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Timmy511 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:36 pm

Hi Matt,

ive driven landys sinced i was 16, the last comp truck i had in the uk ran a 300tdi with an r380 manual box, 4.11 diff reduction, ashcroft through out and 35'' simex.

i can promise you, theyre tough! ive had that truck spinning 35s on rock bouncing the whole truck and nothing let go!

if you want cheap stong diffs, grab two rear p38 rrage rover diff heads, pull the carriers out, then machine the face the ring gear bolts upto a bit (cant remember exactly) and builod the 3.54 ring and pinions from a disco diff head onto it, thatll then give you a much cheaper and stronger 4 pin carrier. ive bought two p38 diff heads for 300 bucks, just keep watching trade me for people wrecking them! they come out of 4.6 hse.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Batfastard » Wed May 06, 2015 8:56 pm

The 24 spline disco stuff is fine on 33" just don't give it shit on full lock.or you may pop a cv.if you lift one or two front wheels off the ground in anger just back off the gas when they are about to land..if you wanna run 35 in a competition ,spend the money on good gear .kam or ashcrofft .I've been working my comp truck over the last three years and ome stuff is not up to it .don't be fooled it is not.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 85County » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:07 pm

std land rover axles are fine if you do not drive like a nutter. there seems to be quite a bit of misinformation already posted.

up grading axcels is a no brainier, simple and cheep, ashcrofft ot Jmac from Australia.

ashcrofft stuff seems to be softer steel, giving it mor flex, thus stronger. But the down side is more wear.

swapping out for Nissan or Toyota stuff is just way to much work for no gain, a silly way to go.

if you want to play around with drive ratios, swap out transfer intermediate gears, there is quite a large selection there.

this is generally regarded as your upgrade order when going to 35s. depending on your use and auto manual etc

CVs, pre defender 110 CVs or ashcrofft, the 110 cvs need a bit of grinding and broaching. but if your doing axles at the same time it works out cheaper in the long run.

front diff. spiders and a single cross shaft are the problems here, machining for a X cross shaft, or just dump the spiders for a true track or get a locker. P38 but to much hard work again

do not forget your doughnut, 35" means your using some lift. doughnut will not last long, swap out for a uni.

Nissan diffs blow CVs like you would not believe, and you have more ratio options with transference gears than Nissan difs.

as a rule LR axcls do not just go bang, although they have a bad reputation but this is more to poor manufacturing back in the 60s and 70s which Land rover bangers keep on rabbiting on about.

slip out your axels on a regular basis if you are off-roading, check the inner spline for any torque twisting

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 85County » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:16 pm

Mattman wrote:Cool. Where did you get the lockers?

Anyone know how to ID the 24 spline vs 10 spline?


this is the inner spline, IE the end in the diff. no difference in strength, the change was just for manufacturing, the 10 being machined and the 23 being rolled.
as well as the 23 being much easyer to assemble, IE no lining up like a 10.
the 10 spline disappeared depending on country with the introduction of the 300 tdi. though some lat 200 tdis got the 23 spline in some places.

NB be warned, its not just the spline, stubs, CVs. ball housings also changed.

the 10 spline are longer, there stubs are longer. NB 10 spline wheel bearing locking Tab has a notch machined in the thread where a 23 spline has a flat face. the 10 spline stubs wheel bearings although the same are further apart than the latter defender. swivel balls. bottom bush or a bottom bearing etc

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 85County » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:19 pm

Mattman wrote:What are the Chinese lockers like?

How are the ratios?


every thing is made in china

have a look, and pull out your visa card

http://www.made-in-china.com/productdir ... rrection=1

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Re: axle swaps

Postby lax2wlg » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:45 pm

85County wrote:Nissan diffs blow CVs like you would not believe



:roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Crash bandicoot » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:57 pm

85County wrote:
Nissan diffs blow CVs like you would not believe,


Image
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Pedro » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:26 pm

85County wrote:swapping out for Nissan or Toyota stuff is just way to much work for no gain, a silly way to go.


slip out your axels on a regular basis if you are off-roading, check the inner spline for any torque twisting


yeah the nissan stuff is not a good swop IMO, far prefer the 80 series for extra width giving great stability and reliability, after preping the axle as in new seals bearing etc it took about a day to swop them over, and another 2 the cut the body work out to allow 33 to fit with out doing a body lift, so now got a disco with wide diffs, 33s, no sway bars that handles well and very predicable on the road, now have the option to hit shit as hard as reqd with out being scared of bending diffs or twisting axles. and i don't need to slip any axles anywhere , just need to sort the lack of power.......

Pedro

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 85County » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:40 am

Pedro wrote:
85County wrote:swapping out for Nissan or Toyota stuff is just way to much work for no gain, a silly way to go.


slip out your axels on a regular basis if you are off-roading, check the inner spline for any torque twisting


yeah the nissan stuff is not a good swop IMO, far prefer the 80 series for extra width giving great stability and reliability, after preping the axle as in new seals bearing etc it took about a day to swop them over, and another 2 the cut the body work out to allow 33 to fit with out doing a body lift, so now got a disco with wide diffs, 33s, no sway bars that handles well and very predicable on the road, now have the option to hit shit as hard as reqd with out being scared of bending diffs or twisting axles. and i don't need to slip any axles anywhere , just need to sort the lack of power.......

Pedro


how did you get on with the rear diff being a centre pumpkin?
over here the toy-motor guys are strengthening diffs housings both ends and fitting early 110 stubs to try and get life out of a set of wheel bearings
difs do not last ether, BUT that is more long hard hours at speed, IE 14 hours of ruff roads at 110 KPH, not a problem in NZ

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Re: axle swaps

Postby 85County » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:57 am

ok i think this thread is getting a bit over cooked.

33" on a 300tdi disco, manual??

look its no problem, Nothing is going to explode unless your an idiot.

But first gear will be a bit uncomfortable, but see how it goes initially, you can always swap out transfer intermediate gears latter, that's an easy job.

i think you will have the 1.2 something, so with 33" maybe the 1.4 something ether from a 300 tdi 130 or an early rangy V8, but that will be a LT95 so some machining would be needed so forget that.

i would be more concerned about getting your offset on your rims sorted, no way will you want the std 33mm you will need to look at something like 20-22mm.

then there is the body panels, rear camel cut and a trim up front. and or a body lift which is easy on a disco, but possibly not legit.

if you going to be driving over ruts and a bit of cross axcle stuff, just grab a steering rod and tie rod of ebay aussie about 120 bucks for some nice fat ones.

but remember with every "upgrade" you are just moving the fuse some where else.

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Re: axle swaps

Postby lax2wlg » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:26 am

Oh FFS 85County, hes already ditched the idea and has gone for an Isuzu Trooper with a live front axle conversion.

We get it, you are a Land Rover guy, in your head the Land Rover is the original 4wd, and anything else is a just a copy.

Of course you are welcome here, and you obviously have some valuable knowledge that others could benefit from, but please, take a chill pill, and try not to be so authoritarian.
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Re: axle swaps

Postby Mattman » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:40 am

Lol

Thanks to all have contributed useful info :-)

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Re: axle swaps

Postby derk » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:37 am

85County wrote:how did you get on with the rear diff being a centre pumpkin?


80 series is offset mate

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Re: axle swaps

Postby Crash bandicoot » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:13 am

And if one happens to mention nissan live axles are weak again... u going to get schooled. They are no weaker then any other main stream 4wd...
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Re: axle swaps

Postby 85County » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:54 pm

lax2wlg wrote:Oh FFS 85County, hes already ditched the idea and has gone for an Isuzu Trooper with a live front axle conversion.

We get it, you are a Land Rover guy, in your head the Land Rover is the original 4wd, and anything else is a just a copy.

Of course you are welcome here, and you obviously have some valuable knowledge that others could benefit from, but please, take a chill pill, and try not to be so authoritarian.


me authoritarian?? yet your the one calling me the land-rover guy, i also have a jeep and a Jakaroo ( bighorn i think) sitting in the drive way.

have just been swapped out of the Pootoool and into a toymotor by work. i do on average 1800klm a week.

next weekend i will be camping with my son. thats a 1200 klm round trip.

i think with the miles i do and the rough country i do as well as the variety of vehicles i drive and in some cases demolish. i do have some idea of what the weak points are in each brand.

your insulting accusation of being a one eyed land rover type is at best childish.

what i have a problem with is people posting misinformation or there opinions IE my grand fathers mate's brother was told by a guy in the pub that land-rover axles are shit. etc

yet i have blown 7 Pootrool CVs for 1 LR axle and that was drivers front and about 25 years old. cruiser wheel bearings, a constant PITA.

so you can keep your opinions, and ill stick with the facts ok.

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