Disco with electric winch

Disco Gofer
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Disco with electric winch

Postby Disco Gofer » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:46 pm

Is any one running one battery with their V8 Disco? If so what size? I have a 10 month old 730amp Century battery in my truck which I fitted when installing my new Ridgeryder winch but hardly ever use it and last weekend a 12m winch up a hill drained the battery to the point the truck spluttered due to low voltage. I let it recover and charge up again and only needed it once this last weekend at Ngaroma to move some 6 to 10 inch trees to block some damaged tracks off and even that sucked the battery right down to the point of misfire.

None of the leads were hot as with high resistance, not rusty or loose connections or badly crimped lugs were found. I still have the factory cables on the winch which may not be the best but some others run the exact same winch with the same cables trouble free in heavy conditions.

What am I missing guys?

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby MihiT » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:34 pm

Disco Gofer wrote:.

What am I missing guys?

Another 12 volts and a safari badge :p

Even if the cables don't feel hot, that doesn't mean you aren't suffering voltage drop.
Batteries can suffer all kinds of weird problems, and they don't call them electrical gremlins for nothing. This sounds most like low internal resistance.
Easiest but not cheapest would be try a brand new battery, and if nothing changes then you have other problems.

I would be looking to alternator output as well: a winch will draw some hundred amps while most alts are only 60-80. (V8 may be 110-130A, but still only half the required current)

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TJ
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby TJ » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:05 pm

12V winch draw at full load for 9,500 lb winch is more like near 400 amps, not 100....
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby MihiT » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:39 pm

I did mean hundreds plural, as in -some- of them, sorry if that wasn't clear.
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Disco Gofer
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Disco Gofer » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:32 am

Ah ok, thanks. This does all make sense. The battery is 10 months old but doesn't mean any thing I know. I have the exact same battery in my road TD300 so will swap these over for next weekends run and see. I was also at The Cable Shop in Hammy today and they have real good prices for various wire so will take all the winch cables off and get them replaced with heavier cables as well to be sure.

I will try get the alternator load tested soon as well as it takes 5 mins to remove but was also thinking maybe I should just buy a second battery and mounted it in the back and run some nice heavy welding gauge cables to the front as well plus a charging ? Then I could be sorted once every thing is checked out. I have had a 350 Chev in a 40 series for the past 5 years and having a PTO winch never gave it a thought. I always had tons of grunt and durability winching. Now having electric forces me to make changes which isn't a bad thing.

As for the Badge change...........................I hear ya! Haha. I do like Safaris as well but having worked for Landrover in the early 90s in South Africa and done so many trips I just cant shake the bloody "Landy" bug..............

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Mattman
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Mattman » Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:15 am

I have just done a dual battery conversion in my D1. Relocated the power steer res and a few other bits and bobs and now have two batteries in stockish locations.

Have a pair of 650CCA's and have an upgraded 150amp alternator.

Matt.

New truck small.jpg

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Crawlerer79
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Crawlerer79 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:53 am

Mattman wrote:New truck small.jpg


You got a build thread of this???? Looks really nicely built :D
'Lando' - 1994 V8 Disco on 32s and Twin Locked
'The Zook' - 1991 Suzuki Escudo on.... cough 29s cough *For Sale*
'The Blue Daily' - 1994 V8 Disco on 31s

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Mattman
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Mattman » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:18 am

Will do a build thread shortly, in the next few weeks hope to have it mostly complete for the first part of the project.

When I got it it was certed for 33 as and the lift and had a very well done guard chop.

Land cruiser 80 series diffs, elocker front, auto locker rear, chromolly axles and cvs, 5in lift with dislocation cones, beadlocked 35s, winch, fual batteries, big alternator, side bars, onboard air.

Phase 2 is ute chop, rear mount radiator, 4.8 gears, exo.

Cheers
Matt.

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Crash bandicoot » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:24 am

If you are going to winch trees and heavy trucks with a 9500 ridge rider there are few things that will need attention. Firstly don't use sealed batteries. They take longer to charge back up after discharging.

Secondly the wiring that comes with the winches is about half of what it needs to be to carry current under full load.

Thirdly dual batteries. If you don't want a split charge system chuck that battery in the wifeys car etc and buy two identical lead acid batteries and run them in parrellel.

Lastly the alternator. It needs to be absolutley top notch condition no questions asked and the higher the output the better. 120 amp+ anything under you won't want to do more then 2 full line pulls at a time.

I have recently just retired my 9500 ridge rider after 5 years of hard yacker and I put its longevity down to being able to feed it all the current it required. I had twin alternators and twin lead acid 770cca batteries feeding it through inch thick fine strand aluminium cables I scored from the local scrap dealer that came from a locomotive.
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Disco Gofer » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:44 pm

Ok, thanks guys. Holy crap, 2 770 batteries and super fat cables. I did think the standard cable looked like shit but thought so many others use the same and seemed to get away with it.................
I actually just yesterday thought I would remove the cables and get them redone in bigger gauge at The Cable Shop in Hamilton and also started to accept a dual battery set up will be needed. I was spoilt with my 350 40 series and PTO winch for 4 years and now have an electric winch......................

So the alternator I will do some searching and see what larger ones are cost effective for me as opposed to fitting two.

This is all great info so thanks so much guys. I love my Discos and just want them to work well for weekend fun.

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Crawlerer79 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:39 pm

Mattman wrote:Will do a build thread shortly, in the next few weeks hope to have it mostly complete for the first part of the project.

When I got it it was certed for 33 as and the lift and had a very well done guard chop.

Land cruiser 80 series diffs, elocker front, auto locker rear, chromolly axles and cvs, 5in lift with dislocation cones, beadlocked 35s, winch, fual batteries, big alternator, side bars, onboard air.

Phase 2 is ute chop, rear mount radiator, 4.8 gears, exo.

Cheers
Matt.


Niiice. I'd been gonna ask where you got beadlocks for a Landie but guessed you might've chucked different axles at it :D
'Lando' - 1994 V8 Disco on 32s and Twin Locked
'The Zook' - 1991 Suzuki Escudo on.... cough 29s cough *For Sale*
'The Blue Daily' - 1994 V8 Disco on 31s

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Mattman » Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:23 pm

Crawlerer79 wrote:
Mattman wrote:Will do a build thread shortly, in the next few weeks hope to have it mostly complete for the first part of the project.

When I got it it was certed for 33 as and the lift and had a very well done guard chop.

Land cruiser 80 series diffs, elocker front, auto locker rear, chromolly axles and cvs, 5in lift with dislocation cones, beadlocked 35s, winch, fual batteries, big alternator, side bars, onboard air.

Phase 2 is ute chop, rear mount radiator, 4.8 gears, exo.

Cheers
Matt.


Niiice. I'd been gonna ask where you got beadlocks for a Landie but guessed you might've chucked different axles at it :D


Howat engineering made my beads. He will do land rims.

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Crawlerer79 » Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:46 pm

Mattman wrote:Howat engineering made my beads. He will do land rims.


Righty.... only problem is he's in the NI. Did you need to cert it or is it just a trailer queen
'Lando' - 1994 V8 Disco on 32s and Twin Locked
'The Zook' - 1991 Suzuki Escudo on.... cough 29s cough *For Sale*
'The Blue Daily' - 1994 V8 Disco on 31s

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Mattman
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Mattman » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:54 am

Crawlerer79 wrote:
Mattman wrote:Howat engineering made my beads. He will do land rims.


Righty.... only problem is he's in the NI. Did you need to cert it or is it just a trailer queen


Plan is to cert it. Shipping rims isn't hugely expensive. Each rim cost $170 to convert to a certable beadlocks.

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby wjw » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:08 am

Mattman wrote:
Crawlerer79 wrote:
Mattman wrote:Howat engineering made my beads. He will do land rims.


Righty.... only problem is he's in the NI. Did you need to cert it or is it just a trailer queen


Plan is to cert it. Shipping rims isn't hugely expensive. Each rim cost $170 to convert to a certable beadlocks.


You can get them done down here too, ask Rick @ Summit 03-982 1763
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Crawlerer79
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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Crawlerer79 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:09 am

wjw wrote:You can get them done down here too, ask Rick @ Summit 03-982 1763


Cool, thanks for that. I'll get in touch when the time comes
'Lando' - 1994 V8 Disco on 32s and Twin Locked
'The Zook' - 1991 Suzuki Escudo on.... cough 29s cough *For Sale*
'The Blue Daily' - 1994 V8 Disco on 31s

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Disco Gofer » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:24 am

Well I have all the winch cables remade and will be doing the factory earch as well as a new chassis to engine to complete the "tidy up" Was really well priced from The Cable Shop in Hamilton. Trevor the owner did a hell deal and the speed of service was crazy. Less than 24 hours! All crimped terminals and heat shrunk ends to marine standard as well.

I am about to buy another same battery as don't have a wifey (or anything remotely close other than a friend's wifey.........) to give the current battery too haha!!

And as for the alternator have found a Beemer Bosch 140 amp for $70 which is a good fit with minimal work.................
should be good to test with in the next 2 weeks once this summer weather has cleared. Turck is too tall to fit in my garage door so have to work outside..........time to lift the tin shed I think! I have 4 buddies with hi lift jacks and one is a builder that said " no problem" so might just do that this summer.

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby muddy » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:54 am

I've got a Disco with RUNVA 9500-Q winch (upgraded cables) running off 2 x 650CCA batteries and standard 120A alternator. Battery earth cables run to a common point with the winch earth so not relying on the chassis for earth. Entered in Clubman Class and done all 4 rounds so far in the Mainland Winch Challenge series - so it's had a decent workout with both hard pulls, and a number of long winch runs and repeated re-sets. It's never stalled the winch (but broken the cable several times) and never run out of juice either. I think it would have to be under heavy load (high Amps) for quite a long time before the voltage drop became a problem. And the battery re-charge is quick enough I don't really think too much about it. I do ensure I keep around 1500-2000rpm while winching (auto box) to keep max charge from the alternator...

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Mattman » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:58 pm

Nice. Needs more pics.

I have a BMW 140 amp alternator as well and a Mercedes ignition driver.

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Crash bandicoot » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:26 pm

After a video I saw today apparently 200amp alt from a john Deere is the way to go. Lol
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Disco Gofer » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:17 pm

muddy wrote:I've got a Disco with RUNVA 9500-Q winch (upgraded cables) running off 2 x 650CCA batteries and standard 120A alternator. Battery earth cables run to a common point with the winch earth so not relying on the chassis for earth. Entered in Clubman Class and done all 4 rounds so far in the Mainland Winch Challenge series - so it's had a decent workout with both hard pulls, and a number of long winch runs and repeated re-sets. It's never stalled the winch (but broken the cable several times) and never run out of juice either. I think it would have to be under heavy load (high Amps) for quite a long time before the voltage drop became a problem. And the battery re-charge is quick enough I don't really think too much about it. I do ensure I keep around 1500-2000rpm while winching (auto box) to keep max charge from the alternator...


Well that's sounds the go, I have 730 battery now and just fitted brand new cables right through the winch and the battery negative as well, sanded and sealed the earth connection to the chassis, added another earth to the engine with the/new original winch cables and applied electrical conductive grease to all connections. I will be looking at a second battery once I find a place for my locker pump as its too noisy in the climate controlled cockpit..............

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Re: Disco with electric winch

Postby Disco Gofer » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:19 pm

Crash bandicoot wrote:After a video I saw today apparently 200amp alt from a john Deere is the way to go. Lol



Bloody Hell...200 amp. That would be like a second hand brake on the 3.9....................haha.

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