Pinion play

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Petemcc
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Pinion play

Postby Petemcc » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:06 am

A mate of mine has a hilux with a heap of play in the rear diff pinion. Play is up and down. The diff sounds fine, nice and smooth etc.

I was wondering if I should tighten the pinion nut to take up some of the play or if I should just leave it alone?

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catalystracing
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Re: Pinion play

Postby catalystracing » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:09 am

No great mechanic but when doing some work under mine awhile back I asked similar question of a mate. There is a crush tube that is torqued up, I checked mine when replacing the pinion seal. 96 LN107 DC.

Cheers.

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churchill
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Re: Pinion play

Postby churchill » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:45 am

It's rooted, if it's running well now it wont be doing so for long. I'd pull it out and replace it with a good one, that'll be cheaper and easier than rebuilding on the assumption the bearings need replacing.

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lax2wlg
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Re: Pinion play

Postby lax2wlg » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:22 pm

Crush tube or bearings. Agree w/ Churchill, the Toyo diffs are very fussy and will blow up if even slightly out of spec.
NEVER EVER re-use/retighten a crush tube! They are designed for a single use.

Best and most widely accepted solution when rebuilding is to replace it with a solid spacer.
TOYOTA - The Official Vehicle of ISIS!
And makers of the '92 Camry, where you got your first backseat handjob.

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Re: Pinion play

Postby tweake » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:02 pm

it will be bearing failure. pay to fix it asap before it stuffs the other bearings or even gears.

while i would not recommend reusing a crush tube, tightening them up a tad is fine. most of them do loosen a little bit and all they need is a tiny amount of tightening to get them back to spec. if its needs lots of tightening then bearings have usually gone and then change crush tube with the bearings.
solid spacer is much more reliable.

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Re: Pinion play

Postby Mehrts » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:47 am

+1 for replacing the crush tube with solid spacer and shims.

Just makes replacing the pinion seal such a quick and easy job and you know the job is done properly instead of guesswork with the one-use-only crush tube.
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lax2wlg
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Re: Pinion play

Postby lax2wlg » Mon May 08, 2017 4:07 am

tweake wrote:it will be bearing failure. while i would not recommend reusing a crush tube, tightening them up a tad is fine.


Fair enough, yeah I guess if you know the history of the truck, and how its been treated would be factor. A tiny nudge won't harm it, but do you think that since the bearings are on the way out, it probably wouldn't make a difference... and best just to strip it back and go new bearings throughout and a solid spacer?

Personally I never ever set up someone elses toyo diff for money. Any other diff - no worries, with a dial meter, torque wrench and some paint, some shims and factory guidelines, and will stand behind it.

Gotta hand it to toyo though, only Japanese 4x4 to make (rather than outsource to a local company) their diffs and final drive systems in-house. Nissan, on the other hand, went to Fuji Heavy Industries and said, 'look, we need a big-balls, Japan-pride axle for our flagship off road vehicle, the Safari.' FHI said 'I present H233. Any rotation, no loss. Poorly educated suicidal salary-man can assemble pinion preload with blindfold. No worry. Side-gear backlash setting, anything within an inch will be fine. ' Okay, 'chotto' hyperbolic.

Guys dedicate their lives to setting up Toyo diffs. It requires a level of understanding that I certainly don't have as a gaijin. Toyota diffs require nationalist, inbred, savage and militaristic Japanese hyper-accuracy. Something that us gaijins don't have. Sure there are non-Nippon bros that set up Toyota diffs. Something always breaks in the end, even with moderate, controlled use.

But I cannot shrug a life-changing experience I had one night with two 15yr+ Toyota engineers in a raucous bar in Asakusa. 'Toyota is breakable. Nissan - not.' Specifically in relation to the LandCruiser/Patrol rivalry debate. That quote continues to keep me up at night.
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And makers of the '92 Camry, where you got your first backseat handjob.

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churchill
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Re: Pinion play

Postby churchill » Mon May 08, 2017 1:52 pm

Probably a good time to get this out there.

If a bearing cap on a diff is stuffed, it is not a simple case of grabbing one off another diff and bolting it on. They are generally bolted on and bored so are a matched set. I have managed to get a swapped one working but that required a lot of measuring and a surface grinding. Still not sure how long it will last.

I've come across so many 8" toyota diffs that have had this done and have broken, it really is just a lottery if it will work.

Remember that they are a matched set so if it's damaged throw the whole casing out unless you are good with a torque wrench, micrometer and surface grinder.

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Re: Pinion play

Postby tweake » Mon May 08, 2017 5:07 pm

lax2wlg wrote:
tweake wrote:it will be bearing failure. while i would not recommend reusing a crush tube, tightening them up a tad is fine.


Fair enough, yeah I guess if you know the history of the truck, and how its been treated would be factor. A tiny nudge won't harm it, but do you think that since the bearings are on the way out, it probably wouldn't make a difference... and best just to strip it back and go new bearings throughout and a solid spacer?

take two separate comments to two separate issues and join them together to make shit up. gee :roll:

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lax2wlg
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Re: Pinion play

Postby lax2wlg » Mon May 08, 2017 7:36 pm

Sorry mate I wasn't trying to have a go or distort what you were saying, just another stupid rant lol :D

100% re; bearings though, agree.. a bearing and a race is a unique set - period. Easy to skimp but it will bite you - do it properly :D

This is probably not a good time to mention that the 1980s D21 Datsun/Nissan C200 rear end has a solid pinion spacer from factory, and that it and their OEM 4.875 R&P can be swapped into a front straight axle or cast iron independent carrier, running on coast, with virtually no loss in strength.

Japan were so desperate to be taken seriously back then - driven primarily by the massive US export market - that they built the absolute shit out of their vehicles.

If you look at the history, Toyota 4x4 design always has been dictated by two markets - America and (a far second) Australia. Toyota is a good, reliable vehicle. Like a Land Rover, it is fit for purpose. It does what they say it will do.

However, back then, rogue domestic car brands such as Nissan and Mitsubishi - tied historically with the aviation and aerospace industries - and backed by massive amounts of 'bubble economy' money, instinctively overbuilt their vehicles in the late eighties and early nineties - to a ridiculous degree.

The trucks that we drive - the 80's/early 90s 'Japanese golden era' that I crap on about like a clown - are a manifestation of Japan's shameful, post War sense of inadequacy. Nissan, Toyota, Daihatsu, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, at the end of the day, the brand doesn't really matter. They were all still made from high quality materials with a militaristic, fastidious attention to detail.

This is perfectly consistent with post-War Japanese attitudes. Surrender is a fundamentally anti-Japanese concept. In Japan, it is more honorable to die by ritual self-disembowelment (Seppuku) than to accept defeat and live.

The never-before-seen carnage of 'little boy' and 'fat boy' on August 6, 1945 led to the surrender of the murderous and savage Japanese. They vowed never to go to war again.

Instead they concentrated their efforts on light manufacturing. This obsessive, dedicated, loyal commitment to rebuilding themselves. Their rapid growth led to, if it wasn't for Government intervention, the complete demise of domestic American automotive and electronic industries. British Leyland was no different - complacent mediocrity disguised as gracious defeat. Japanese products were just better. Better materials, better made. Reliable, durable. And with time, effort and understanding, enough charm to develop a personality all of their own. Essentially, all a man could ever want in a truck. Except for a dog in the back :wink:

Toyota has given us some amazing things like the JZ (inspired by Nissan's RB, by the way), the LandCruiser and the Corolla.... But lets put the cards on the table. A Hilux 8" axle is not designed for 35" tyres, low gearing and a locker. No way. It will not provide long term reliable service in the bush with that setup. 31's and open, no worries, beat the shit out of it all day, nobody will care. But if we're really getting into gearing the shit out of it and locking it up and asking the front end to pull the whole rig over a massive rock, the Toyo axle will need some pretty costly upgrades - same as a Rover axle.

To get the Toyo axle real proper expedition ready for reaming on rockfaces on 35s and locked - which is the only way to go - suddenly your several grand balls deep into an ARB center and aftermarket gears, shafts, this that and the other thing.

Other option... sling some Fuji axles under there and lose an inch on ground clearance at your lowest point. Big ####### deal, spend the balance on lower transfer gears and make it up with tyre diameter.

Hmmm... another stupid rant :o
TOYOTA - The Official Vehicle of ISIS!
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