Getting the most out of a 2.8
Getting the most out of a 2.8
Ive got a 2.8D ute with a few kms (300+) but it doesnt burn oil and goes just as well as ones with half the kms.
Is there much you can do to them (without turbo) to make them go a bit harder? and what it would cost - I'm guessing work on valves and fuel etc? It also has noisy tappets.
cheers
Is there much you can do to them (without turbo) to make them go a bit harder? and what it would cost - I'm guessing work on valves and fuel etc? It also has noisy tappets.
cheers
- northland_pajero
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:00 pm
- Location: Whangarei
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
I will be interested in any replies, I also have a Toyota 2.8 diesel with 320,000km non turbo, I do not want to put a turbo on as I hear heat is the enemy of any small diesel head and a turbo can cause heat.
In the mean time I am learning to live with 3rd gear and 65 km/h up hills that the Pajero 2.8 intercooled turbo would do in od (automatic) and 100km/h.
In the mean time I am learning to live with 3rd gear and 65 km/h up hills that the Pajero 2.8 intercooled turbo would do in od (automatic) and 100km/h.
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
valve clearances are important.
otherwise there is not much you can do to atmo. you can play with fueling and timing. you will need egt gauge as atmos get piston meting temps very quickly.
but imho the big thing is gearing. get the lowest gearing you can withstand.
i can't remember hilux rpm@100km/h but i had a 2.8 hiace that was 3200 rpm@100km/h and used to do most hills in 5th.
otherwise there is not much you can do to atmo. you can play with fueling and timing. you will need egt gauge as atmos get piston meting temps very quickly.
but imho the big thing is gearing. get the lowest gearing you can withstand.
i can't remember hilux rpm@100km/h but i had a 2.8 hiace that was 3200 rpm@100km/h and used to do most hills in 5th.
- northland_pajero
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:00 pm
- Location: Whangarei
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
Been googling 3l etc and some suggest a set of extractors (and bigger exhaust) might improve performance.
Has anyone had any experience with extractors and the toyota 3l engine?
Has anyone had any experience with extractors and the toyota 3l engine?
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
never done it myself but why not look at a turbo
especially if your looking at getting extraxtors etc made
i mean you can pick up turbo setups off the 2lte surfs for cheap
i reckon you could turbo it for less than a grand including cert
and the power gains are gonna be way more beneficial
just my 2c
Alex
especially if your looking at getting extraxtors etc made
i mean you can pick up turbo setups off the 2lte surfs for cheap
i reckon you could turbo it for less than a grand including cert
and the power gains are gonna be way more beneficial
just my 2c
Alex
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
My motor was a 5L not a 3l but they are pretty much the same thing...
Valve clearances are a good place to start. A bit weird that they are rattly. They are an over head cam engine where the cam runs directly on top of the valve and you replace shims between the valve and the cam. That might not be 100% ie valve spring and some sort of spacer/lifter type thing are in there too but it's all in line at any rate. When the valves wear they stretch and seat further into the head which decreases the clearance between the shim and the cam when the valve is fully seated. This makes the valves go tight rather than loose.
Therefore if the valves are rattly it would have to be a worn out cam or shim or cam guide I would have thought? I'm no expert... but this is what I have found when adjusting my valves. They were way out but sounded good as gold.
In a diesel the rattle could be a few other things. Injectors are what most people would point a finger at. Pull them out and get them tested. With those k's reconing the injectors will make the motor run smoother and use less fuel is they are really bad before hand.
once you have valves and injectors sorted you might want to adjust the fuel. Mine was under fueling for some weird reason. If it's on the factory setting it shouldn't be under fueling and you really shouldn't have to adjust it unless you turbo it etc. either way I gave mine a wee bit more fuel so that when I was hard on the gas it was putting out just a whif of black smoke that you could only see when following it. It went way better but im not sure what they fuel economy was like as I took it off the road to mod it soon after that. Be careful with the fuel. Once it's rich enough I understand it that more will do nothing but add heat unless you add more air (ie turbo)
also check the normal things like a air and fuel filters.
as for extractors and exhaust I can't really comment as mine had extractors when I got it. I wouldn't think they would really make much of a difference though. But someone who had fitted them should be able to comment.
Timing might be worth looking at but I have never attempted it so can't comment there either really. I would guess that checking its as it was out of the factory would be a good start. Surely they would have set it up right!
Cheers,
Pete
Valve clearances are a good place to start. A bit weird that they are rattly. They are an over head cam engine where the cam runs directly on top of the valve and you replace shims between the valve and the cam. That might not be 100% ie valve spring and some sort of spacer/lifter type thing are in there too but it's all in line at any rate. When the valves wear they stretch and seat further into the head which decreases the clearance between the shim and the cam when the valve is fully seated. This makes the valves go tight rather than loose.
Therefore if the valves are rattly it would have to be a worn out cam or shim or cam guide I would have thought? I'm no expert... but this is what I have found when adjusting my valves. They were way out but sounded good as gold.
In a diesel the rattle could be a few other things. Injectors are what most people would point a finger at. Pull them out and get them tested. With those k's reconing the injectors will make the motor run smoother and use less fuel is they are really bad before hand.
once you have valves and injectors sorted you might want to adjust the fuel. Mine was under fueling for some weird reason. If it's on the factory setting it shouldn't be under fueling and you really shouldn't have to adjust it unless you turbo it etc. either way I gave mine a wee bit more fuel so that when I was hard on the gas it was putting out just a whif of black smoke that you could only see when following it. It went way better but im not sure what they fuel economy was like as I took it off the road to mod it soon after that. Be careful with the fuel. Once it's rich enough I understand it that more will do nothing but add heat unless you add more air (ie turbo)
also check the normal things like a air and fuel filters.
as for extractors and exhaust I can't really comment as mine had extractors when I got it. I wouldn't think they would really make much of a difference though. But someone who had fitted them should be able to comment.
Timing might be worth looking at but I have never attempted it so can't comment there either really. I would guess that checking its as it was out of the factory would be a good start. Surely they would have set it up right!
Cheers,
Pete
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
Personally I would'nt bother putting a turbo on a 2.8 engine, I've seen many fail over the years,sooner or later they get too hot and melt, save your pennys and do it right with a 1Kz transplant instead if you intend to keep the truck.
Having driven over half a million km's in various 2.8's over the years the only mod's I'd do would be a K&N and free flow exhaust system and maybe very slighty tweak the injector pump.Then get in and drive it forever with no worries, it may not be a racecar but it'll never let you down.
Having driven over half a million km's in various 2.8's over the years the only mod's I'd do would be a K&N and free flow exhaust system and maybe very slighty tweak the injector pump.Then get in and drive it forever with no worries, it may not be a racecar but it'll never let you down.
- northland_pajero
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:00 pm
- Location: Whangarei
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
I have put extractors and a big bore exhaust on my 2.8 diesel hilux (3L motor), it has improved the performance, too early to say whether it has had any effect of the fuel economy.
I'm now looking at getting a K&N air filter, but when I measure the paper filter and compare it to the filter K&N Replacement Air Filter, Toyota Hilux 80/98 (E-2487) the height and inside diameter are the same but the K&N outside diameter is an inch smaller than the paper filter.
The engine will be drawing air from the inside of the filter so that will fit, the old paper filter fits snuggly in the air box, the new K&N will have 1/2 an inch between it and the air box wall, is this okay?
I'm now looking at getting a K&N air filter, but when I measure the paper filter and compare it to the filter K&N Replacement Air Filter, Toyota Hilux 80/98 (E-2487) the height and inside diameter are the same but the K&N outside diameter is an inch smaller than the paper filter.
The engine will be drawing air from the inside of the filter so that will fit, the old paper filter fits snuggly in the air box, the new K&N will have 1/2 an inch between it and the air box wall, is this okay?
- Sadam_Husain
- Angry bird
- Posts: 5164
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: WELLINGTON
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
the reson you gain 2-3 extra hp with K&Ns is they are freer flowing, ie: they arent as restrictive as a normal paper filter and they let all the crap and shit that the filters supposed to be capturing and blocking go straight through into the engine
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
I find that pretty hard to believe,I've driven through thick gorse on a daily basis and never had any problems with it getting past the K&N the airbox can be fully clogged with debris take the filter out, look down the middle and it's still spotless,so obviously doing it's job.
- northland_pajero
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:00 pm
- Location: Whangarei
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
I have done some research on this and while they say more air means more getting though, my opinion (yup it is just an opinion so may be wrong, but I am prepared to test it on my hilux) is that different air flow is causes by different filtering media, paper is not oil filled cotton.
Last edited by northland_pajero on Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Sadam_Husain
- Angry bird
- Posts: 5164
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: WELLINGTON
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
surf lux wrote:I find that pretty hard to believe,I've driven through thick gorse on a daily basis and never had any problems with it getting past the K&N the airbox can be fully clogged with debris take the filter out, look down the middle and it's still spotless,so obviously doing it's job.
yeah there well known for their great filtration qualities
- crazyclark31
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 867
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:13 pm
- Location: invercargill.
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
Sadam_Husain wrote:surf lux wrote:I find that pretty hard to believe,I've driven through thick gorse on a daily basis and never had any problems with it getting past the K&N the airbox can be fully clogged with debris take the filter out, look down the middle and it's still spotless,so obviously doing it's job.
yeah there well known for their great filtration qualities
We have a k&n on our turbo 60 and yes it does flow really well and looks clean inside but when you wipe the intake hose with your finger you get a lite smear of dust. And we have try all sorts of diffrent oil thickness.
- northland_pajero
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:00 pm
- Location: Whangarei
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
I have done the following to my LN106 single cab 2.8 non turbo hilux.
Extractors and big bore exhaust (noticed improved power)
K&N hi flow air filter (noticed more power from lower in the rev range)
Full service (engine, gearbox, transfer and diif oil replaced, they diffs were dirty, and diesel filter, looked like rust in it) (huge reduction of black smoke and increased power)
By far the biggest improvement was from the thing that cost the least, changing the diesel filter. But overall it is now much nicer to drive on the open road (which is good as we live 30kms from town).
Extractors and big bore exhaust (noticed improved power)
K&N hi flow air filter (noticed more power from lower in the rev range)
Full service (engine, gearbox, transfer and diif oil replaced, they diffs were dirty, and diesel filter, looked like rust in it) (huge reduction of black smoke and increased power)
By far the biggest improvement was from the thing that cost the least, changing the diesel filter. But overall it is now much nicer to drive on the open road (which is good as we live 30kms from town).
- Crash bandicoot
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 2924
- Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:19 pm
- Location: Towing a hilux
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
you have to remember that K&N filters are performance filters, they are expected to provide relativley clean air to an engine that is not expected to do more then 50 000 kms without a rebuild.
It may be fine to apply race car modifications to a standard engine, but at the end of the day the parts are made to last a certain length of time before being pulled out and replaced or machined.
I have snapped two kelford cams, one under warrantee the other not. i was told by them that the cam shafts were not designed to do more then 20 000 kms before being replaced as they were race spec lightened to reduce rotating mass.
This is just an example but the same principle applies to the K&N air filter. it stops enough of the dust to let the engine do its job for a expected time. That time isn't 300 000 + kms.
It may be fine to apply race car modifications to a standard engine, but at the end of the day the parts are made to last a certain length of time before being pulled out and replaced or machined.
I have snapped two kelford cams, one under warrantee the other not. i was told by them that the cam shafts were not designed to do more then 20 000 kms before being replaced as they were race spec lightened to reduce rotating mass.
This is just an example but the same principle applies to the K&N air filter. it stops enough of the dust to let the engine do its job for a expected time. That time isn't 300 000 + kms.
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
Dunno...I've had K&N's on my TD27 for over 200,000 k's, and it's still sweet. And I've run 'em in most of the bikes I've had for lotsa k's and never had issues. I don't KNOW anyone personally that has had issues...only ever seen internet stories from people that don't use them
- Sadam_Husain
- Angry bird
- Posts: 5164
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: WELLINGTON
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
I was using a K&N but went back to paper as fine dust was getting through it. To prove it, spray a little filter oil in the intake pipe, and next time you wash your filter, wipe your finger around intake pipe and check out the crap thats got through. It only took one trip with a few shingle roads involved, and mine was filthy
Jeremy
Jeremy
If you break it... build it stronger.
- crazyclark31
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 867
- Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:13 pm
- Location: invercargill.
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
kbjj wrote:I was using a K&N but went back to paper as fine dust was getting through it. To prove it, spray a little filter oil in the intake pipe, and next time you wash your filter, wipe your finger around intake pipe and check out the crap thats got through. It only took one trip with a few shingle roads involved, and mine was filthy
Jeremy
Same story with ours in the sixty
- northland_pajero
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:00 pm
- Location: Whangarei
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
If it has not been done already I will do the 'oil on the intake' test with both the K&N and also a paper filter to see how much worse the K&N is.
Im also perplexed if K&N lets in that much dirt and it is bad for the engine how is the company still in business?
From my internet research I have found people saying K&N are fine or K&N let in more dirt, but nowhere have I found anyone saying that a K&N filter caused (thought plenty say it might cause) premature engine failure.
Will post up the results in a couple of weeks of running both the K&N and a new paper filter.
Im also perplexed if K&N lets in that much dirt and it is bad for the engine how is the company still in business?
From my internet research I have found people saying K&N are fine or K&N let in more dirt, but nowhere have I found anyone saying that a K&N filter caused (thought plenty say it might cause) premature engine failure.
Will post up the results in a couple of weeks of running both the K&N and a new paper filter.
- Sadam_Husain
- Angry bird
- Posts: 5164
- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: WELLINGTON
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
mate you sound determined to use a K&N to squeeze another 2-3hp out of your truck so by all means go for it and you'll probably be fine theres lots of people using them, I know as far as my offroad applications went they were a big fat mud sucking waste of time and I now have far better results and less ingestation of shit and crap with standard paper filters or the old finer filter I used to use
- northland_pajero
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:00 pm
- Location: Whangarei
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
When it is a 2.8 non turbo diesel 2 hp is alot I do not want to turbo it as I have heard the extra stress it would put on an 23 year old engine might just be too much.
Thanks for all everyones comments on these posts, I have got a lot out of all of them
Thanks for all everyones comments on these posts, I have got a lot out of all of them
Re: Getting the most out of a 2.8
Can get extractors on trade me for about $320, coby, this is the guy http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listin ... er=3952218
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests