Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

For all Toyota related topics ie. Hilux, Cruiser topics

Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:41 pm

Looking at getting rid of the sh*t setup Toyota has for cooling trans oil and just wondering if anyone else on here has done the same and has any tips or info that could potentially help me out.

Rang a few radiator places and it's a lot more expensive than I thought to get the oil cooler that's blocking the water outlet taken out of the radiator. So, is the best thing to do simply look for a manual 3L diesel surf radiator and fit an external trans cooler?

Had a look on trademe and there's a load on there. What size and how many rows would I need to effectively cool the trans for both on-road and off-road driving?

Thanks in advance.
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby tweake » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:05 pm

the silverdale radiator brass ones look alright. thicker cores, i think they are Aussie built which is why they are thicker.
they say there is manual option so make sure you ask for it.
probably cheaper than removing the cooler out of the old one.
User avatar
tweake
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 1828
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: start of northland

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:42 am

Thanks, what sort of price do they go for? Are they on trademe? Could you give me a link to the ones you're talking about?

I have actually been looking for a second hand manual 3L diesel one from a wrecking Surf as all the brand new ones I've found are super expensive and apparently not that great.
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby mudbugga » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:02 am

User avatar
mudbugga
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:00 pm
Location: Christchurch

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:22 am

Thanks for the link will save it. Might keep looking for a 2nd hand (tested) manual radiator for now see if I can pick up something a little cheaper.
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:22 pm

Got my 12" oil cooler in today, in series before standard cooler, and the bloody a/t oil temp light still coming on just with normal road and motorway driving. Will sometimes go out for a bit then come back on, seems semi random. Engine temp has def dropped about 5'C since cooler install today. I am unsure if the a/t oil temp light is coming on because the oil is overheating.. Are there any other reasons this light may come on? Trans oil is still nice and red, smells good, and has been topped up to full. I don't understand how it'd still be running hot. It also never used to come on, only started happening a little while ago.. Any ideas?
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby kbushnz » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:34 pm

Perhaps the temp sensor is faulty.....or a wire on the sense line is chaffed and earthing out causing the light to come on?
Cheers Calvin
KZJ78 Landcruiser Prado...
User avatar
kbushnz
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:03 am
Location: Massey, Auckland

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby Heath » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:56 pm

kbushnz wrote:Perhaps the temp sensor is faulty.....or a wire on the sense line is chaffed and earthing out causing the light to come on?


Beginning to think this way as well. get a rag, wipe down the wires and look for chaffing/arcing.
User avatar
Heath
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 3158
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:00 pm
Location: Rolleston, Chch

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:56 am

Yea I was thinking the same about the sensor, so, where abouts is the sensor for the trans oil temp? And is the chaffing (if that is what it is) likely to be around the box or could it be anywhere even up in behind the dash (please tell me no lol). Also, how do I test the sensor? If it is cheap enough I will just buy a new one and replace it to tick that off the list of possible faults/reasons.
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby kbushnz » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:09 am

Sensor is here...
Image
As for the wiring, follow it back. Chaff more likely to be under the truck.
P/N is 89429‑34010 and used in many different vehicles.

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/xref?s=894 ... J=on&mG=on
Cheers Calvin
KZJ78 Landcruiser Prado...
User avatar
kbushnz
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:03 am
Location: Massey, Auckland

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:23 am

Awesome thanks bud will have a geeze soon. Is it worth checking fault codes or would that give me nothing? Could it be the ecu temp sensor? Or the ecu caps? Just reading on other forums and apparently those 2 things can cause odd problems for transmissions.
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:35 am

Could this be the issue? This is the correct plug, right? I tugged quite hard on the exposed wire and it didn't budge so it's not like it's falling out - **** knows how it got like that still being in there damn tight. Also tried pushing it back in but it won't budge. Where it's positioned it's not like that exposed wire can touch anything to arch out so could it be that the wire has come out just enough to sometimes have contact and sometimes not? If it didn't (i.e. like the plug being un-plugged) does/would that cause the A/T OIL TEMP light to come ON?

Next step, how do I test the actual temp sensor? And is removing it just a case of just undoing the nut below the plug and taking it out?

EDIT: Just left it un-plugged, started it up for a little bit and no A/T OIL TEMP light, so now I'm thinking that (if this plug is the cause) it actually is overheating and then the wire loses contact which cuts the light out? I also have no idea how to fix that plug from under the truck, anyone have any ideas?
Attachments
WP_000677.jpg
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby kbushnz » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:59 am

From what I can find out it uses resistance to trigger light.
Note: triggered at 110C
The manual states if the resistance is too high or too low it will trigger.
Image
Here is a test which I have found in several manuals online...
Image
The ECU doesn't use this to control the auto..
The ECU uses water temp to control when the OD and Torque converter lock can be applied.
Its possible the ECU board could be damaged and effecting this light..
As stated in other posts the Caps tend to pop at about the 10 year mark.
Cheers Calvin
KZJ78 Landcruiser Prado...
User avatar
kbushnz
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:03 am
Location: Massey, Auckland

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:53 am

Don't have time to read that properly this morning, in a rush, will read this arvo.

But on the way home from beach yesterday the lights started doing more crazy stuff. The A/T Oil Temp light decided to stop staying either on of off for prolonged periods of time and start flickering on and off quite quickly, the O/D Off light decided to start doing the same thing although not as much as the AT light.

So is this another problem that has arisen? Or, is it likely to be the same (or similar) fault causing the O/D light to stuff around too?

Anyone run into this before? We drive through fresh water up to about door to top of wheel arch height a few times for about 5 seconds and the rest of the water driving doesn't even come up to bottom of doors. Would the water be doing something somewhere causing these probs?

Will check back tonight after work, cheers.
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby kbushnz » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:19 am

The blinking OD light can also be the ECU sending out its error codes...
Need to do a diag on the ecu..
Download a manual for the 1KZTE its all in there how to do it..
Plenty of links in here just need to search the forum..

My next guess is the ECU is on the way out (CAPS)
Some people get strange things with lights and Auto... Some just wont start one day...
Cheers Calvin
KZJ78 Landcruiser Prado...
User avatar
kbushnz
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:03 am
Location: Massey, Auckland

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:44 am

Shit ok will look into that tonight if I get time. Just a quick Q, how much are caps to replace? And is it an easy job? Oh and is the diag on these pretty straight forward? Cheers mate
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby kbushnz » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:08 am

Search the forum re 1KZTE ecu issues, plenty of discussions.. and repair agencies
Cheers Calvin
KZJ78 Landcruiser Prado...
User avatar
kbushnz
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:03 am
Location: Massey, Auckland

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby geckoadventure » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:00 pm

kbushnz wrote:The blinking OD light can also be the ECU sending out its error codes...
Need to do a diag on the ecu..
Download a manual for the 1KZTE its all in there how to do it..
Plenty of links in here just need to search the forum..

My next guess is the ECU is on the way out (CAPS)
Some people get strange things with lights and Auto... Some just wont start one day...


YUp and sometimes will not let the GEARBOX change gears when the ECU is dying or DIED. ECU Easy to check pull it out and inspect if for leaks or broken solder tracks. Then take it for repair if visible leaks are detected.
User avatar
geckoadventure
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:30 pm
Location: Malaysia

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby tallsam66 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:29 pm

You can also have lights doing silly things if you have had water inside vehicle...the loom dont always like getting wet
User avatar
tallsam66
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 1817
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:00 pm
Location: Christchurch

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:59 pm

Yea def havent had water in the cabin. Will do a diag test soon and see what i get, will then pull the kick panel off and inspect ecu. Fingers crossed it isnt anything major. Will post up what i find, need to Google what i look for after i bridge te1 and e1 though haha.
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:16 pm

Ok, i got 4 flashes, short pause, 2 flashes, long pause, and repeat over and over. So code 42? Speed sensor? Which means?.. Lol.

EDIT: have checked out ecu, all looks good to me, looked at plugs on box and transfer and all look ok and are tightly plugged in. Anyone had a fault like this before and can shed some light on where exactly to look and what to look for? Hope this means my AT isnt actually overheating and its something electrical doing this and the o/d light. Ecu and cabin all bone dry too.

ANOTHER EDIT: have been reading through the workshop/repair manual and found the steps to fix the fault code 42. Supposedly the first thing to check is the speedometer whilst driving to ensure it is functioning correctly (in the combination meter?) - which it is; so this means that the speed sensor is operating normally. Next thing is to check the voltage between terminal SPD of engine ECU connector and body ground whilst front is jacked up and wheel is being turned slowly, voltage should be generated intermittently - only problem is I don't have a voltmeter. If this turns out to be OK, then the next piece of information is to "check and replace engine ECU".. great!
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bang-thud-thump » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:00 pm

You dont need to swap the radiator.

Ive fitted plenty of coolers to all sorts of vehicle from Jappas to hot rods.

Fit the cooler SEPARATE from the radiator or nothing is really gained.

Two hot things dont make a cool thing.

Clean out the rad cooler (brakeclean blasted through, then water if you want) then simply fit a hose from one end to the other- 'bridge it out'.

If the in rad cooler cracks the coolant flows in the hose round and round, no worries.

The other reason for bypassing the rad is that if the in rad cooler cracks you get ATF in the engine when running (ATF pressure higher than coolant pressure) then they happliy swap over when you turn her off - nil trans pressure but residual coolant pressure.

I have seen some sad faces explaining this to customers with cooked motor/trans.

If you want pull the rad to make sure all the oil is drained.

While you are there, getting it checked and rodded out is a good idea too.

New thermostats are cheap insurance.

Thats my opinion anyway, all this new rad talk seemed odd unless Im missing some fundamental 4WD thing?
bang-thud-thump
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:56 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:27 am

To bypass the in-radiator cooler altogether how big does the external cooler have to be? Mine was supposed to be 12" x 6" by 3/4" (the actual cooler, I thought), but it turns out that is the overall size, so cooler is 9.5" x 6" x 3/4", too small? And do you need a fan on them too?
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby 1justin » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:22 am

ive got a 41mm thick manual alloy radiator and the truck still went up in temp going up the porters pass so wouldnt bother with a new radiator unless water temp goes up under just normal driving, i think its more to do with high egts for long periods going up the hill

i brought a trans coller from b n t thats only about 10 mil thick and about that size and at light hasnt come on so mite be alright, i out put mine behind the grill so wil get plenty of air

i went into a radiator shop and they showd me one off a 20 tonne truck and is only about 12 ' by 6' by 1 1/4'
1justin
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bang-thud-thump » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:05 am

That size while not massive will still shed a fair bit of heat.

My old boss had room issues on a 32 Ford coupe so just made a loop of tubing under the chassis with no cooler. Seemed to work ok!

Never used a fan. The rad fan draws air through the area anyway. Just make sure you use some sort of soft spacer between the rad and cooler to prevent rubbing and eventual tears at the roadside. Some kits come with foam spacers and a mounting kit. Mount the cooler in front of the rad.

I like them up high too, our of the way but having said that they are usually tough enough. Off roading obviously is another danger but I figure people here think about damage when they fit stuff.

Try the current one and if you trust the gauge then keep an eye out, should be ok.

By the by, if a trans poos itself get a new cooler as the cooler is usually now a swarf container. Seen that happen too, people spend $$$$ on a reco trans, fit it at home only to have it quickly die due to not cleaning or replacing a cooler. I go with new as they are fiddly bugger to clean and how can you be sure they are clean?

I helped a mate fit a new diff head to a Cortina once. It had some oil left in the housing and as a check I put my hand in it. Came out with enough teeth to make half a crown wheel, that would have been good in the new diff eh?
CHECK CLEAN CHECK CLEAN.....
bang-thud-thump
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:56 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:05 am

Yea mine is mounted in front of radiator and air-con, on the right hand side (looking from the front) up the top, as the whole left side is taken up by another fan - I'm guessing the air-con one?

So you really think my cooler will be ok to run on its own? Not just for on-road driving but off-road too? I assume my truck trans would get a lot more of a thrashing off-road than a hotrod trans on the road?

My water temp gauge stays at about 75-78'C on normal road driving on a cool day. On a hot day and going up slight hills or windy roads it can go up to 80-85'C. Up steep long hills it can get up to 90-95'C but very quickly goes back down as soon as the hills are over and I put the heater on full bore.

Will hopefully be getting the SPD terminal tested on ECU today. But also wanting to suss out whether or not I can run this (to me) small trans cooler I have on its own without the stupid in-rad one.

Thanks guys, keep the comments and previous experience coming! And needs to be suitable for on-road AND off-road driving :) not just on-road.

EDIT: Trans cooler is rated to 12,000lbs, just measured it and the cooler part itself measures 8 3/4" x 5" x 3/4" and is mounted as per the image below (so it gets quite a bit of air):
Attachments
WP_000693.jpg
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby kbushnz » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:14 am

My setup sounds similar to yours and I get the similar results open road driving on hills and my truck is probably a 1/2 a ton heavier than yours.
Oh and I don't bother using the heater to drop the temps running 95 is fine...As long as it doesn't keep climbing.. Mine will peak at 95 ish and stay there.
Temps don't raise much off road.. mostly slow going and in low range..
Even if working it hard it never gets as hot as open road driving.
Cheers Calvin
KZJ78 Landcruiser Prado...
User avatar
kbushnz
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:03 am
Location: Massey, Auckland

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bang-thud-thump » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:13 pm

A separate gauge may be an idea as heat kills autos quicktime, as does dirty oil. Id be interested to know which driving condition heats it up the most.

I dont have experience hammering autos off road so others here may know.

That cooler will shed a fair bit of heat. Dont forget numerous race cars use engine oil coolers around that size and they get stinking hot. But they get a lot of air too.

Im 4WD hunting and what you have is basically what Ill be fitting if that answers your question.

Tubular finned coolers work well too. We used one on a NZV8 tourer for PS cooling. They are tough as in comparison and sneak in all sorts of places.
bang-thud-thump
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:56 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bronx89 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:48 pm

That is the thing though, my truck seems to get way hotter way quicker on the sand. Both in low range up dunes or in soft sand and in high range in the hardish flat stuff. So, is that because the trans works harder on the sand especially in low range which in turn will heat up the engine coolant due to the in-rad cooler?

And so you guys reckon running my small 9" (12" overall size) external cooler will be fine on its own without using the in-rad cooler at all? For on and off-road?

Have also tested SP2 ecu terminal whilst spinning front wheel and get either a constant 0.002 or 0.003v reading, unsure if I am doing something wrong or this is where the problem lies (between the speedo cluster and ecu) - I hate this auto-elec stuff :evil:
bronx89
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:31 pm

Re: Hilux Surf 1KZ-TE Auto Trans Oil Cooler

Postby bang-thud-thump » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:58 pm

Ambient air in NZ is 0-30 C as a rule.

Coolant temp 80+ .

I go with oil to air.

Fit a bigger cooler if you want, within reason it wont hurt it and it adds a little more trans oil volume also.

Someone on here must run a serious winch truck with an auto to advise re this issue?

Id expect soft sand to heat everything up as its like doing burnouts - lots of grunt going out and little air flow in and around the motor.
bang-thud-thump
Hard Yaka
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:56 pm

Next

Return to Toyota

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests