Unsafe Ball Joint

[jt3000]

Hey all

I am new to 4wd and have recently bought a 93 surf and have been enjoying getting into a bit of maintenance on the beast. Bought it with a lift already done. Fully expected to have to do a bit of work on the truck particularly with regard to the suspension etc and anticipating a few bits and pieces needing replacement.

Any way over the last few months the truck passed a wof without any stress, have had new set of AT tyres fitted (plus alignment). Then more recently had a tie rod replaced by toyota (recalled). They also did an alignment.

After replacing the tyres noticed the front right had a decent negative camber (it was there before the tyre change but was more noticeable with the squarer ATs). I assumed the guys fitting the tyres (big co.) and doing the align knew what they were about and wouldn't send it out the door unless it was ok.

Since then got the wof and had the tie rod done. Meaning more qualified ppl than myself had had more than a glance at the suspension without commenting on the neg camber.

A couple of weeks ago I was looking things over and noticed the front right was starting to wear unevenly (already). Compared left and right and didnt like what i saw. After doing a bit of reading on here and in other forums came to the conclusion that at least the upper ball joint was stuffed (looked that way to me but assumed all the pros wouldnt have missed something so obvious). Wasnt prepared for how stuffed it was when I took it out. check out the photos attached.

I am pretty disgusted at the number of "professionals" that have passed over this without comment. The only indication I had that anything was amiss was from the tyre guy who said that the alignment had adjusted the camber to the maximum. They didnt bother to check why there was still massive neg camber that was going to chew up my exp new tyres!

I'd be interested in thoughts from any of the long term 4wd community.

Have i just been unlucky or is this sort of thing to be expected. And just to be clear. I got the wof about 3 months ago and the tie rod was done about 2 months ago. I dont think the camber has recently worsened and am sure that the bj has been stuffed for a looong time.

[jt3000]

Should also have noted that shortly after buying the car I took it to a suspension outfit to get them to look it over. They had no comments.

Should also have noted that the wheel alignment after the tyre fitting was free with the set of tyres and the other alignment was part of the tie rod fitting at no charge. Perhaps its just a case of getting what you paid for??

[bruntonjm]

I think up to a certain degree you have to check every componant out on a truck when you own one and even more so once modified. If you have lifted it, running bigger tyres etc you are greatly increasing the stress on the componants and they will wear out far faster than origionally. If you have not asked to have specific parts checked e.g. balljoints etc it probably willnot be looked at. If that is the origional balljoint from factory it is now 20 years old, and due to fail at some point. Maybe it could be worth wile to go to a reputable garage which works on 4wds and get them to go over the whole truck, possible in the long term saving you a lot of money....

[jt3000]

Yep I hear you and with any vehicle of this age and around 200kms I definitely expect bits and pieces (bjs, cvs, bearings etc) to be getting worn out. What i dont expect is that a WOF check would miss this sort of thing (not to mention the alignments).

[Suza]

I have recently heard of 3 different ball joint failures on hilux's and surfs all were running Toyota original ball joints and all had not long been checked by a mechanic. I asked my guy about it and he said that they were real weary of them now

[Sadam_Husain]

yeah they should be checking the balljoints at a wof check, was the camber all on the piss before you took it in for the wof or did it go on the piss afterwards?

[jt3000]

Yep tyres were done for WOF and was otp following the alignment which adjusted the camber on the lower control arm all the way and still was out. The tyre guys didnt give me the impression there was anything wrong with this.

From the wear on the bj it looks to me like its been metal on metal for a long time. Been a lot of noise from that side but I'd assumed it was the shocks not the bj. Always been a knocking sound too which i now understand is often bjs

[mike]

I had the exact same thing on my surf years ago, mine is a 94 surf. When offroad it was really noticable sitting on a sideling. I used to think this really cant be normal but maybe it is for a surf??. I took mine for a wof at 4wd accessories in chch and he picked up on it said it was totally buggered (and it was crazy worn like yours) and its never had that camber issue again. so yeah maybe a 4wd shop is the way to go for a good check over before using a local wof shop.

[jt3000]

Ok, perhaps i am expecting too much. Still grates a bit that Miles did a tie rod replacement as a safety recall, then did an alignment that left it with the camber. I will stop moaning and fix it up before getting a proper alignment from a 4x4 shop. Any recommendations?

[bruntonjm]

where are you based?

[jt3000]

Sorry should have said. I'm based in Chch. Not sure how to get that to show on my profile

[mike]

4wd accessories in chch, thats where I would be heading.

[bronx89]

Not sure how to get that to show on my profile

You have to pay for it to show.

[phaedrus]

Just to defend the places you've been to it's worth noting you may have experienced a catastrophic failure of your suspension joint, and that it may not have exhibited any particular symptoms when they looked at it.

That said, fwiw, I purchased an optical wheel alignment unit around 30yrs ago and have almost always done my own alignments so my experience of alignment businesses per se is relatively sparse.

However in the late naughties I had occasion to have a tyre company perform an alignment on a later model Prado I had at the time. Unfortunately I had to take it back three times before I was happy with the camber setting on the l/h front wheel. I had specifically asked that this be set at the outer limit due to previous tyre wear and my desire for neutral steering on heavily cambered roads...

My view is that in this case the persons performing the task knew just enough to operate the machine but not enough to understand it, and the typical geometry requirements of vehicles in general, let alone mine in particular.

I've no doubt there are many businesses out there who would competently and correctly deal with your vehicle but with a number you may strike an unsupervised early year apprentice, or a tradesperson who doesn't fully understand this aspect of his job, is disinterested, or is otherwise incapable of dealing with the task at hand. Suspension alignment is not rocket science but it is something some people may never fully grasp, or may not be their particular area of expertise.

So if you're not wanting to purchase your own gear then perhaps I'd recommend you find a smaller specialist firm that has been operating for a number of years and is well supervised by the owner. You may find them more suitable to your needs/vehicle rather than the more general practitioner, or a firm that does it as a by-product (such as some of the tyre places perhaps).

I've no idea who to suggest but I'm sure others will have some ideas.

Cheers, P.

[jervisad]

Not sure how to get that to show on my profile

You have to pay for it to show.

na you dont have to pay but i cant remember how to change it tho haha

[Dirtydog]

Not sure how to get that to show on my profile

You have to pay for it to show.

na you dont have to pay but i cant remember how to change it tho haha

Definitly dont, Evidence is right here <<<<

[jonossiksilvia]

Not sure how to get that to show on my profile

You have to pay for it to show.

na you dont have to pay but i cant remember how to change it tho haha

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/Forums/ ... =6&t=34846


Now back on topic

[lax2wlg]

Sorry to go back off topic, but FFS $22 bucks a year is too much for these guys to pay for access to this community?!

I mean you just got an immediate answer from about 6 different people, some professional techs/mechanics...

[3.5Pajero]

Yep, I had a 92' Surf a while ago with exactly the same thing - didn't really notice it much until the axles started articulating a bit and then it was noticable as a knock in the front drivers side suspension somewhere.
I found it one day, just before going in to VTNZ for a WOF..being late in the day I thought, bugger - oh well i'll just fail the Wof and fix the ball joint tomorrow.
And wouldn't you know it! The same VTNZ that are schooled up enough to fail me for an obscure law about not being able to replace the webbing on old diagonal seatbelts with out going to a diagonal/lap couldn't identify a severly worn ball joint!!
In there defence I don't remember it being immediatly obvious - correct me if im wrong, but did you have to jack the front up with the suspension hanging and then lever the the top control arm around a bit to notice the movement in the worn ball joint?? Just sticking a bar under the wheel and levering up as per standard Wof check doesn't identify the problem?

[jt3000]

Ok i can appreciate the ball joint might not be that obvious but the neg camber was. People kept pointing it out to me and I kept thinking nope its had x y and z look at it so it must be right.

[Sadam_Husain]

Ok i can appreciate the ball joint might not be that obvious but the neg camber was. People kept pointing it out to me and I kept thinking nope its had x y and z look at it so it must be right.

from your first post I can understand you wanting to vent mate and you've pointed fingers at the wof guy, the tyre/alignment guy and the toyota dealer for not picking up the problem with the bj but reading through all that lot unless I've missed it its not clear when the wheel went on the piss, was it like that 3 months ago when you got the wof or 2 months ago when you got the tierod or when you got the tyres put on or some other time?

[jt3000]

In chronological order

tyres
wof
tie rod

had the neg camber (maybe not as bad as it ended up) after tyres.

From some of the posts above it does sound like it could have deteriorated rapidly and I have taken that on board. Will try a 4x4 specialist in future for any alignment/suspension issues.

[jt3000]

Anyone suggest a good place for a wheel alignment? I would head to 4wd accessories as some have suggested above but will be difficult to get out to sockburn during the week. Any ideas?

[wjw]

Anyone suggest a good place for a wheel alignment? I would head to 4wd accessories as some have suggested above but will be difficult to get out to sockburn during the week. Any ideas?

You probably dont need to take it out to rick, give him a call as he may be able to recommend someone local to you 365 1909