Suzuki Second Battery

Tumor
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Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:07 am

I am looking at a Runva 8.0xs 8000lb winch ( http://www.winch.co.nz/winches/80xs-12v-rock-crawl-winch-dyneema) for my 1987 Sj413.
I was wondering if anyone could let me know what type of second battery i should get to run this winch off of. I have heard that'll need a deep cycle battery, but I'm not too sure which type. I know that they aren't cheap so I want to choose the right one the first time around.

This one is reconmended by Century Batteries (http://www.centurybatteries.co.nz/resources/battery-finder/product/ns40zlmf/200008308), but I dont know wheather that is for a main battery or the secoundary battery.


Thanks in advance for any advice. :mrgreen:
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

MihiT
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby MihiT » Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:18 pm

Higher CCA rating = better. I'd be looking for 600 at least.

The other way batteries are rated is amp-hours (Ah) but I'm not sure how relevant those ratings are for winching, since they're based on a slow draw over 20 hours.

"Deep cycle" will take a greater depth of discharge without damaging the battery, but the lower the battery voltage gets, the higher the current draw will be so oversize your cables for 9-10v or so.

I'd suggest bolting on the largest alternator you can find, too.

That winch is rated at 4.3kW, assuming 100% efficiency that's 330-360 amps at peak power, so more under load, and 480A if your battery gets down to 9V...
- 1990 LWB Safari flatdeck, TD42 -

Tumor
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:57 pm

MihiT wrote:Higher CCA rating = better. I'd be looking for 600 at least.

The other way batteries are rated is amp-hours (Ah) but I'm not sure how relevant those ratings are for winching, since they're based on a slow draw over 20 hours.

"Deep cycle" will take a greater depth of discharge without damaging the battery, but the lower the battery voltage gets, the higher the current draw will be so oversize your cables for 9-10v or so.

I'd suggest bolting on the largest alternator you can find, too.

That winch is rated at 4.3kW, assuming 100% efficiency that's 330-360 amps at peak power, so more under load, and 480A if your battery gets down to 9V...



Thanks for that....

So you're saying get cable that is rated at 9-10 volt? Just to clarify
Got any suggestions where to get a new alternator from?
And is the cables and the alter the only things I need to worry about?


Cheers
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

MihiT
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby MihiT » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:19 pm

Tumor wrote:Thanks for that....

So you're saying get cable that is rated at 9-10 volt? Just to clarify
Got any suggestions where to get a new alternator from?
And is the cables and the alter the only things I need to worry about?


Cheers


No you're just looking for high current DC cable (plenty of people use welding cable).
9 is just worst case scenario for doing the sums.
W / V = A
4300 (4.3kW) / 12 = 358A (battery nominal volts supplied)
4300 / 9 = 477A (battery drained volts supplied)

If the winch can't get enough volts, amps increase to compensate, creates more heat, lowers efficiency, etc etc.

If you're handy, any alt from the wreckers rated at ~>120A, if not then auto parts stores, bosch /delco, should be able to match pulley and mounting bolts.

You can (should) fit a dual batt isolator, at very least a discharge protector/cut out on your starting batt.
Shorter cables reduce voltage drop, if you had battery in the back, and winch on front you'd want fatter cable again.
- 1990 LWB Safari flatdeck, TD42 -

Tumor
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:48 pm

Okay... thanks for that. Again :mrgreen:

And the battery is going to be under the hood above the left wheel arch.
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

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Swamped
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Swamped » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:21 pm

Search Falcon alternator upgrade for suzuki and you should find which alt's are a near direct fit. Often multi rib belt though so keep that in mind as you might have to find pulleys and also the waterpump can have the wrong reach. I had to fit a swift waterpump. I got an alt off an EL for one truck. Other one was off a Mazda but don't remember what car. Both were over 100amp.

I run 70mm (Edit) welding lead and have my batteries in the back of the truck. Works fine and shifts weight backwards. The cable is often double insulated too which I like. The same cable as below.

Image
Last edited by Swamped on Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Tumor
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Swamped wrote:Search Falcon alternator upgrade for suzuki and you should find which alt's are a near direct fit. Often multi rib belt though so keep that in mind as you might have to find pulleys and also the waterpump can have the wrong reach. I had to fit a swift waterpump. I got an alt off an EL for one truck. Other one was off a Mazda but don't remember what car. Both were over 100amp.

I run 50mm welding lead and have my batteries in the back of the truck. Works fine and shifts weight backwards. The cable is often double insulated too which I like. The same cable as below.

Image




Thanks for that info guys, real helpful
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

Tumor
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:28 pm

Swamped wrote:Search Falcon alternator upgrade for suzuki and you should find which alt's are a near direct fit. Often multi rib belt though so keep that in mind as you might have to find pulleys and also the waterpump can have the wrong reach. I had to fit a swift waterpump. I got an alt off an EL for one truck. Other one was off a Mazda but don't remember what car. Both were over 100amp.

I run 50mm welding lead and have my batteries in the back of the truck. Works fine and shifts weight backwards. The cable is often double insulated too which I like. The same cable as below.


Can you over-size your battery cable?
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

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Swamped
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Swamped » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:45 pm

Generally bigger is better. I just use welding cable because its more flexi. Mine is actually 70mm, just went and checked. If I was winching more or had a bigger starter I'd probably go bigger. Its because of the distance though. If your still mounting the batteries in the engine bay that big wouldn't be needed.

Tumor
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:47 pm

Swamped wrote:Generally bigger is better. I just use welding cable because its more flexi. Mine is actually 70mm, just went and checked. If I was winching more or had a bigger starter I'd probably go bigger. Its because of the distance though. If your still mounting the batteries in the engine bay that big wouldn't be needed.



Okay so would 50mm be enough?
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Swamped » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:53 pm

Be overkill if the batteries are right near the starter. I'd run 50mm to the winch though. Scale everything up as you move the batteries further from the motor.

Tumor
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:56 pm

Okay, thanks.
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

Tumor
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:30 pm

Which battery would be the best because on the Century Battery site there are several deep cycle options.

- Deep Cycle AGM
- Deep Cycle Gel
- Deep Cycle Flooded
- Deep Cycle Industrial.

Thinking that the Industrial battery would probably be to "industrial".
And what is Century Batteries like? Are there better brands to go for or what?
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby MihiT » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:01 am

Tumor wrote:Which battery would be the best because on the Century Battery site there are several deep cycle options.

- Deep Cycle AGM
- Deep Cycle Gel
- Deep Cycle Flooded
- Deep Cycle Industrial.

Thinking that the Industrial battery would probably be to "industrial".
And what is Century Batteries like? Are there better brands to go for or what?


Anything but gel. Industrial is probably perfect, designed to be thrashed, work 150% of the time, take vibration etc.

Optima.

As to 50mm, check the manufacturers rating on it, it should specify voltage drop/meter at X load.
General welding cable of that size is about .5mV / A / m.
So say a 1m run batt to winch, 400A, = .2V no drama.
- 1990 LWB Safari flatdeck, TD42 -

Tumor
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Re: Suzuki Second Battery

Postby Tumor » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:25 am

MihiT wrote:
Tumor wrote:Which battery would be the best because on the Century Battery site there are several deep cycle options.

- Deep Cycle AGM
- Deep Cycle Gel
- Deep Cycle Flooded
- Deep Cycle Industrial.

Thinking that the Industrial battery would probably be to "industrial".
And what is Century Batteries like? Are there better brands to go for or what?


Anything but gel. Industrial is probably perfect, designed to be thrashed, work 150% of the time, take vibration etc.

Optima.

As to 50mm, check the manufacturers rating on it, it should specify voltage drop/meter at X load.
General welding cable of that size is about .5mV / A / m.
So say a 1m run batt to winch, 400A, = .2V no drama.



Slowly getting my head around it :lol:
Getting there though.
Thanks for that
Ln106. 2.8TD 35s, RUF, 4.5 diff ratios, 2003 HiLux leafs in rear...... plenty of flex
Life is better off-road

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