Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

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Nailz
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Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby Nailz » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:41 am

Hey everybody, I was wondering if someone could possibly clear this up for me.
Is it more that an old wifes tale, or more that just speculative folk law.
There seem to be alot of them out there on the road and I am looking at adding to the herd with a soft top swb 92 pajero,
its in pretty good condition, 170 odd ks, 2.4 diesel turbo, factory difflocks, etc bla bla bla...

I had always thought that maybe the people that said this were maybe people that had spent way too much money on buying hiluxs and landcruisers and justy wanted everyone else to feel bad for having a small economical 4x4.

any help would be great, cheers
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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby nstg8a » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:08 am

hmm, i v always heard that too, and the earlier mitsi and mazda diesels were somewhat unreliable, dont know if they were actually any worse that the early surf's etc though.

i think the repair and servicing costs used to be a lot higher, but these days theres probably bugger all difference.

but im sure with the amount of experience on here there will be a definitive answer....



but hurry up- and buy something dude, cos mine is going up for sale once you have been down, i have too many toys...

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby NJV6 » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:09 am

Being a Mitsi owner - I would not buy a 2.3 4D55 or 2.5 4D56 Diesel turbo.

Basically they are the same motor and very old - 1st released in 1983 and I think* it was the 1st turbo diesel 4WD on the market (*may be wrong)

The heads are quite weak and they are well known for problems, and an engine rebuilder was telling me the bottom ends don't rebuild very well. The valve gear also can lead to trouble, (happened to one I had) so in short I wouldn't buy one. O and they are economical (read - gutless!) I had a 2.5 LWB auto for a little while, which popped after I sold it at I think 210k. If a soft top came along at a good price with a 2.5 then i'd consider it, the vehicle would make a great start for a V8...... after (if) it went pop

The 2.8 4M40 is an entirely new in 1993 and I would buy one of those. They make good power and torque, have driven a few and quite impressed, of the same ilk as the likes of the 1KZ toyota motor for figures. There are also some issues with them, such as they have a timing chain that stretches and is recommended to change around 150k ish. I have heard of people having heads off with cracks (like most small Diesels) but generally they are alot more sound than the 4D5 series. The last of the 2nd generation Pajeros from Japan had efi 4M40's but NZ ones were mechanical.

The 4M41 is the current 3.2 and I have heard no proper problems with them. It is the same bottom end as the 4M40 (but bigger obviously). There are 2 versions, the latest is the common rail design and before that they were just EFI

If it is advertised as a 2.4, I'd suggest it is a 2.5.

So I think the tale is true but mainly along the older motors (as far as Mitsi goes)

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby red-devil » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:35 pm

LOLOLOl

ok ifs that ture then i have been hell luckly.
i have owned a 91 swb softtop for the last 5 years 4x4 it to hell and back, trust me the truck should not get a wof. i have drowned the truck 3 times in the rivers and each time i have been able to bring her back to life out on the track. i brought her with 120k on the clock and at the mo she has 250k.

if you 4x4 you will have to pay for it in some way. I didnt look after the truck that well as i was a student at the time.

ok so the cambelt went the other month :( but my bro inlaw will fix it up slowly and he'll start to learn 4x4in.

in my veiw It was the best truck i could have leanrt in. had the rear locker and i used it alot. i used to 4x4 at full speed to get up bumps and crossing, so i leart the hard way.

i now have a VX landcruiser and i am slow slow to all tracks and bumps as the vx can climb/flex/ and it has 35 to clear the diffs.

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby Taz » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:12 pm

My flatmate just got rid of his 1991 pj. He had endless trouble with it and said he would never buy a mitsu again. He had an 88' just before then and had a few problems with that to.

My old man also had one a few years back and it blew its head in under a year of him having it. Was an 89'. In saying that it was sitting on his tennis court for a year and a half and started first crack.
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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby KiwiBacon » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:23 pm

NJV6 wrote:The 2.8 4M40 is an entirely new in 1993 and I would buy one of those. They make good power and torque, have driven a few and quite impressed, of the same ilk as the likes of the 1KZ toyota motor for figures. There are also some issues with them, such as they have a timing chain that stretches and is recommended to change around 150k ish. I have heard of people having heads off with cracks (like most small Diesels) but generally they are alot more sound than the 4D5 series. The last of the 2nd generation Pajeros from Japan had efi 4M40's but NZ ones were mechanical.


I know two people who owned 2.8 diesel challengers. They both had fuel pump rebuilds early on at big expense. One was the first owner and got it warrantied, the second didn't.
Coincidence or common problem?

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby wildplumdx » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:50 pm

i was talking too a dude thats right into his pajeros and he said dont touch the 2.8 mitsu turbo diesel he said they cook themselves if thrashed off road for long period of time anything over 3,500 - 4,000rpm think he said they lack oil delivery? hes cooked 3 of them ! anyway he went back to the 2.5 turbo diesels as you can thrash em all day long and not have a problem so he said, but in saying that depends on how they have been looked after the 4d56 is a good engine i think but if you start missing services they are unforgiving thats my conclusion so far in owning the 2.5 as for the 2.8 only going on what someone else said!

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby smurf182 » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:59 am

wildplumdx wrote:i was talking too a dude thats right into his pajeros and he said dont touch the 2.8 mitsu turbo diesel he said they cook themselves if thrashed off road for long period of time anything over 3,500 - 4,000rpm think he said they lack oil delivery? hes cooked 3 of them !


I'd say this dude needs to take it easy... that's no way to drive a diesel.

Anyhow some more anecdotal evidence. We have a nat-atmo 4D56 in the family and as far as I'm aware has never given trouble.

I wouldn't steer clear of a motor solely because of the brand. Most major manufacturers have made below par diesels.. ZD30, 2L-T, Olds 350, 4JX1, off the top of my head.

The following taken from http://www.dieselbob.co.uk/goodbad.asp

MITSUBISHI 2.8 TURBO (4M40).

Although a thirsty engine it proves to be virtually indestructible. Plenty of torque making it ideal for towing purposes. Fitted with VE type pump making it suitable for veg oil/bio diesel though pump seals prone for giving issues. May lack the power compared to the newer 2.5/3.2 DiD but a darn sight more reliable and less costly to put right.

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby mercutio » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:39 pm

that cos you guys got the wrong vehicles
now mercedes diesels are well known to last forever :lol: :lol: :lol:

not that i am biased :lol: :lol:
my 4wd is not a truck

old mercedes never die but sometimes they do need some love

older cars are good,mercedes are better,older mercedes are the best

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby dblancer » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:09 am

I dunno I found my 4M40T to be quite good, it certainly gives my friends comparitive diesels a run for their money.
Against a MU, a 3.1 Bighorn and a Terrano, it does better for power and torque and highway performance.
The diesel pump DID c0ck out but now its done and IU should be up for a good couple years worth of running.
I would agree it uses a reasonable amount of diesel, but the power reward is nice.

I do have over 200,000kms but it doesnt use any oil and the turbo is still doing great. Im not sure about the timing chain, the mechanics did adjust something when they did my diesel pump.

I was told upon looking in the Mitsi camp avoid the 2.5 TD like the plague so the 2.8 seemed the best.

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby wildplumdx » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:12 pm

my new truck 2.5 td just blew a head gasket hopefully thats all! but that was due too poor maintenance cooling system was not looked after, i say dont blame the engine blame the bloody owners that dont maintain them i reakon! sure theres good and bad engines but maintenance is key for sure and the 2.5 need to be keept on top of! in saying all this i wont buy another mitsu after this gotta go toyota no wonder they hold there price ! :roll:

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby KiwiBacon » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:06 pm

wildplumdx wrote:my new truck 2.5 td just blew a head gasket hopefully thats all! but that was due too poor maintenance cooling system was not looked after, i say dont blame the engine blame the bloody owners that dont maintain them i reakon! sure theres good and bad engines but maintenance is key for sure and the 2.5 need to be keept on top of! in saying all this i wont buy another mitsu after this gotta go toyota no wonder they hold there price ! :roll:


A lot of toyota diesels share that same problem (headgaskets and crack heads). But the rest of them seem to hold together well.

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby Taz » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:21 pm

wildplumdx wrote:my new truck 2.5 td just blew a head gasket hopefully thats all! but that was due too poor maintenance cooling system was not looked after, i say dont blame the engine blame the bloody owners that dont maintain them i reakon! sure theres good and bad engines but maintenance is key for sure and the 2.5 need to be keept on top of! in saying all this i wont buy another mitsu after this gotta go toyota no wonder they hold there price ! :roll:


Sorry for going off topic but...

The head in my mates surf went and he babied it everywhere! Never revved its guts out, was very rarely in 4wd, refused to tow anything, serviced it regularly and it still blew. And he bought another one! Kids these days...
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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby wildplumdx » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:29 pm

lol so in other words you cant win ! maybe there was a defect in the cast of the head from new ? i'm just sick of engines at the mo!

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby Pajmad » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:42 pm

:) As for M diesels, i have a 4d55 2.3 running 15-17psi of boost, i put new rings in it 89000ks ago when i got it for free and it has never let me down, and i drive it very hard, the balance belt slipped at about 1000ks after rebuild but i never had to remove the head to fix just replace the belts. I work for a Hire Centre amd we have 7 4m40t motors most with over 350000ks and a new 4m41t triton. all we do is regularly service them. most are tritons and 2 pajeros, they are always out on hire, 90% of the time its because some companys hilux has died. So if you regularly service them they should treat you right.
P.S my work truck is a pajero 4m40 and i tow 3.6 ton with it twice a week up to the local stockton coal mine.
1992 lwb Pajero 2.3tdi 15psi Keeping It Real

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby gary_in_nz » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:07 pm

my old man has a 2.8 turbo diesel in his LWB Paj 1995 NZ New (not sure if it was assembled here or not??) and in the early days was a terrific, powerful motor. But at about 130,000 blew a head gasket when we were halfway through Athurs Pass, most terrible noise i have heard from a car, had the fuel pump rebuilt, new head after the thermostat poo'ed itself and super heated, millions of new glow plugs, doesn't use any oil and still has reasonably power, now about 230,000kms.
Only thing really at the moment, it starts real rough when cold, even when there is new glow plugs etc... like real ruff, kind of like a britsh car, say a mini, left sitting in the garage for 10 years then tried to restart, just missus like nothing.

apart from that, the only other thing he has had to do was get the rear diff rebuilt as i think i killed the factory locker in it :oops:
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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby Bolo » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:31 pm

Being a mitsi owner I have had the old 2.5 mitsi pajero , and everyone i saw said to me get rid of it before it desides to blow , but in saying that I never had a problem with it in fact i stood by that truck right till the end and it was the best car i have owned and i would have it back in a second , all I did was give it clean fresh oil and air ( clean air filter ) and it was a awesome truck it had done over 220 000ks on it and never done a head gasket on it , I ran 33 inch tyres and it spun them easly and it would go just as far as the v8 cruisers , so I dont know if they are reliable or if i just got a good one but i thought you guys would like to hear my story about the old mitey Mitsi pajero :D 8)
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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby Talscar » Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:51 am

This is a bunch of rubbish from my personal experience. The 4D56T is Economical and got plenty of Guts for those looking for Torque.
However, the only bad experience's i have had since i had my vehicle, are the times it had some issues. For 1 i know what no guts feel's like, and it occasionally was sluggish and slow. But because of how i drove it occasionally, i found massive surges of power. I believe the reasons why these have no "Guts" Is because people tend to drive them 70km or lower, i'v had to drive my car hard to go to places where i had done between 80 and 100km my current speed limit as on P's.

When i got my car *Mitsubishi Triton MJ 1995 2D cab* i had a lot of work to do. The gearbox on this vehicle got blown up... HEY! Don't ask me how, i bought the thing for $600 bucks not running. A few of the gears where mash and so was the main input shaft bearing and a bunch of parts from the Selector hub. We had another gearbox we bought rebuild to put in another car with no running gear, and this seemed to be the hardest part to get. $350 for a nice new gearbox, the problem was my Car was Hydrolic and the gearbox i had was Cable. Had to take both apart and assemble one. Too bad, the parts were loose, so i had some help assembling the gearbox, and in the end the gearbox was all like brand new. But if i had the chance, i'd let my Dad put a bush where the bearing goes, since that was worn badly.
The gearbox got put in the car, and it was my 2nd time driving a manual. Sure, i Kanga hopped it a few weeks, then i got better. The first night i messed up, but the car needed fuel, so i got it running and drove to fuel up! It was fun and awesome! Not to mention, at the time i don't know how i did it, but i drove like a pro that night! The following day i drove, and um... Stop the car and put it in first then speed up to 80km? Yeah i was awful at driving! Now i can smoothly shift! But recently i had an almost uncontrollable surge in power, i could not believe what power it had. Thou the roads were wet, when i went from 2nd to 3rd i done wheel spins at a round about. I can't wrap my head around it other then Hydroplaning but i had control so it's possible.

Everyone knows about the V6 that Mitsubishi had, and if people did not know by now, that is a racing engine.
My Dad has a V6 no one could fix for 5 years until his mate got his own computer and found the problem. Still needs fixing, but my car could keep up with his car and go further.
I'd say the only problem with my car's power distribution is the clutch seems to slip a bit which pees me off. Brand new, and it can't hold 90 up a bridge in 5th. Rev's stay the same but the car slows down. Yeah... Downshift into 4 and it seems better thou i am not sure if it makes a difference.


I recently replaced the water pump, and while at it the timing belt. Boy was i shocked to find that some jack a** never put the tensioner spring back on. The reason these car's fail, is because no one knows how to maintain or look after them. Dad let me have his for his 4D56 which was used in the country fire service somewhere outside of south Australia.

Their are good cars, and their are s**t cars, the V6 Magna was a s**t car. the Triton's and Pajero's were the better car's, not to mention one of the best 4x4's of their time!

I won't lie about Pajero thou... Dad's don't hold water anymore, and his radiators been dry in the top, but it never overheated which was a WTF moment for us. He has had it about 10 years now, and rebuilt it about 6 years ago. Over $3,000 was spent on the motor, but the Gearbox was rebuilt because his boss was the previous owner and mucked up the box putting a additive in the oil. lol!

Anyway, if you don't drive the car correctly, it will never give performance. the 4D56T is infamous for Soot build up, so you need to occasionally give your motor crap! FYI, not rev the s**t out of it that you redline. I feel the safest rev range is 1600-3200 revs and no more. Any less then 1600 and you might get engine knock because its unable to produce enough power to not struggle.
4d56t have very VERY close builds. Which means the redline is a serious issue. If you should redline your engine, its good bye! The engine will have a serious chance of self destructing. Thats around 4500 rpm the redline.

I am still inexperienced with the Diesel's, but what i have seen internally of them give's me plenty of idea why people do and don't hate them. They are dangerous and risky to have. Should the timing belt break, 1,000-2,500 to rebuild the engine!
That's why you should buy quality parts, and if you intend to race with this engine *Which is absolutely stupid!* You should avoid over revving the engine, and buy parts that will certainly hold! And replace them after serious races. Valve float is what the Redline is all about on a diesel. Because of that, the redline is best avoided or you will certainly destroy that engine!


I'd like to have a 4G54 but meh! I'm happy with my 4D56, and it can do more then any 4G54 can do! Apart from top speeds.

Just so you get an idea were i stand, i have been working with motors since i was 11, and much prefer to not break things anymore.
When i was younger i did things i now regret like use a stick to smash up a crap car... Well, not in my eyes now, but it was bought for $20 and was a lemon piece of junk. It was an XY Falcon no interior the engine don't start, and kids used the roof as a trampoline. I will admit, it had good lights till young mr me came along with a stick and SMASHED THEM UP! f**k me to this day... I regret my childhood...
I only learned that was not nice when it came to my dream car a ZL Fairlane i got stuck in, that i used a knife to cut the trim, and it hurt my heart to realize i done it wrong! I feel like crying thinking about this stuff. But the pasts in the past. I learned to be as professional as i could to avoid making the same mistakes. At the moment i am working on a NC Fairlane V8 my neighbor has. I got the manifold that needs grinding and welding because of a crack which leaks air. The thing does not like revving less then 4000 rpm which is REALLY bad! So hopefully this fixes it. It's the only real issue with the car besides the dash lights.

Anywho, the power that car had driving opposed to mine, i think i could compare thou neither car is perfect yet i will see in future. the V8 put you in your seat!
Mine when pushed before having its full power had about 1/3rd of that V8's power to put you in your seat. It's hardly ever got max power anyway.


I hope you understand my point of view and perspective..

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby Crash bandicoot » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:16 am

there are more gutless 2.4 and 2.8 surfs with head problems then there ever was 4d56-t pajero's . we have 3 pajero's in our family and they go like snot and the best one of the lot is a 1990 lwb 4d56-t.

replacement rockers are cheap, head gaskets are cheap, head bolts are cheap. you can even buy a complete genuine head for under 500 from mitsi...try doing that with a hilux engine.

there is probably only one other engine of that era that is better and that was the 4jb1 isuzu engine.

my 2 cents.
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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby NJV6 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:26 am

This thread died in 2008, epic grave dig.
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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby mudlva » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:11 am

The newbys just a troll on to many energy drinks i reckon cause nobody is that passionnant about a 4 banger oil burner with a hair dryer ah.
Now if it were a 6pot running a cat induction that would be a differant story altogether.....

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Re: Dont buy A diesel that starts with "M"

Postby Taz » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:08 pm

mudlva wrote:The newbys just a troll on to many energy drinks i reckon cause nobody is that passionnant about a 4 banger oil burner with a hair dryer ah.
Now if it were a 6pot running a cat induction that would be a differant story altogether.....


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