Leaking GQ diesel pump

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Jim
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Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby Jim » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:26 pm

Gday there, i have a 89 GQ SWB TD42 which has also started to leak diesel from pump - it is seeping from the front part of the join between the top and bottom sections of the pump (i imagine the seal in there is buggered). was wondering if this was a common place for the leak, and if so how easy to fix myself? (never ripped apart a fuel pump before) or better to take to diesel mech?

cheers

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Kent
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I had the same thing

Postby Kent » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:19 am

I had the exact same thing on the exact same car so maybe it is a slightly common thing.

I had a mechanic mate fix mine up so don't know how tricky it would be to do.

I doubt its really involved I just didn't have any time when mine started leaking.

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DieselBoy
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Postby DieselBoy » Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:26 am

Its not a common "problem" as such :lol:

If you have been watchin te news, listening to the radio, or reading the paper, you will know about the warning that went around prior to the introduction of that the new low sulphur diesel they bought in in Jan.

The low sulphur diesel has low levels of aromatics, and because of this, shrinks the seals in the early injector pumps. New seals are only expected to last in these pumps for about 6 years.

There are alot of vehicles on the road with these earlier type pumps and are all suffereing from the same problem. Garages are creaming it charging upto $1500 to replace seals.

I got mine done over a year ago when it strted leaking after they first reduced the levels slightly and that cost about $150 !!!!!! :shock: :shock:

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Postby Jim » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:06 pm

I just rang around a few diesel servicing places in chch - was told that they had a sh*tload of safaris in with this and was most likely top seal (which i reckoned it is on mine) and that this can be done in place for ~$150-300 (depending who ya talked to), but they all reckoned that other seals inevitably start to go, with complete pump overhaul costing ~$1000-1500 +GST.
Does this sound about right?
Any opinions on whether it worth it to spend the big cash now? or go the cheap option, and how likely is it to have further problems?

Cheers

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Postby tristanp » Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:15 pm

or the even cheaper route
buy a seal kit (20$) and do it yourself , you will need to go to mitre 10 and pick up a set of impact screwdriver bits (13$)and make sure you have a 8mm socket in your socket set , theres an alen screw bit in the back of the pump holding the accelerator bracket on, mine stripped out with the correct key and all, so i just bent the bracket back enough to get the cover off, now before you do all this get some de-greaser and a digital camera , spray the throttle linkage on top of the pump and waterblast , then get a pic of the slot on the linkage in the centre - and its orentation with the marks on the rest of the throttle, then your half way there, take the fuel union off (new copper washes are in the kit) then crack the flat screws loose on the top cover (mine were really tight- really tight) getting the cover off was a little tricky too , but once i slowed down it all happened nicley - dont forget to replace the oring ont he throttle shaft (also in the kit) and loosen off the bleed bolt on the fuel union and bleed with the plunger on top of the fuel filter on the other side of the engine bay took me 60-90 min for the whole job - and the bracket looks like its never been bent

dont forget to remove drivers side battery (and unhook the passenger side one)
if you want pics - hollar out

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Postby DieselBoy » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:45 am

tristanp wrote:if you want pics - hollar out


Hey, this is the kinda tech thats really important and good to have on the site!!!!!

If you have pic's and a little bit of time, post them up!!!!!

You'l save some people a whole lot of $$!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Pete.

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Jim
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Postby Jim » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:01 pm

yeah mate that would be awesome if you could chuck some photos on - I was kinda keen to do it myself, just needed a bit of direction and knowledge!

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Postby tristanp » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:19 pm

ive put a few photos in one of the photo albums, unfortunatly once i got the top cover off it all happened pretty fast and i didnt get any photos

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... _album.php

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby curly12 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:40 pm

Will take photos of mine as I take it apart tomorrow to replace the gasket :roll:

Farken POS!!!
Early on this year I had to replace the farken water pump!!!!! :( :( :(
320 000km and ten years owning it and I have to replace two parts!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Bloody unreliable Nissan :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:
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Farken homeless..................................

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Re:

Postby darinz » Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:03 pm

tristanp wrote:or the even cheaper route
buy a seal kit (20$) and do it yourself , you will need to go to mitre 10 and pick up a set of impact screwdriver bits (13$)and make sure you have a 8mm socket in your socket set , theres an alen screw bit in the back of the pump holding the accelerator bracket on, mine stripped out with the correct key and all, so i just bent the bracket back enough to get the cover off, now before you do all this get some de-greaser and a digital camera , spray the throttle linkage on top of the pump and waterblast , then get a pic of the slot on the linkage in the centre - and its orentation with the marks on the rest of the throttle, then your half way there, take the fuel union off (new copper washes are in the kit) then crack the flat screws loose on the top cover (mine were really tight- really tight) getting the cover off was a little tricky too , but once i slowed down it all happened nicley - dont forget to replace the oring ont he throttle shaft (also in the kit) and loosen off the bleed bolt on the fuel union and bleed with the plunger on top of the fuel filter on the other side of the engine bay took me 60-90 min for the whole job - and the bracket looks like its never been bent

dont forget to remove drivers side battery (and unhook the passenger side one)
if you want pics - hollar out


Definitely need impact driver to get the 6 screws undone though! I broke 2 screw drivers before using impact driver.

If your clever you'll rip out the filter in the banjo while you're at it and most likely crank the fuel a little bit.
Nissan Terrano coilovers, turboed VH45, Safari axles, and some other stuff.

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby FreddyN » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:17 pm

FWIW, the pump on my '88 TD42 (200,000km) started leaking a month or so ago. Consensus from a few diesel specialists that I spoke to was that at 200,000km/20 years, the pump was overdue for a full service, and unless I planned on not keeping it for a few more years, then replacing accessible leaky seals in-situ wasn't a good idea. YMMV.
I took the pump out, Diesel Pumps Ltd (Parkhouse Rd) did the recond. As well as seals, it needed a new main shaft, which was worn and also badly scored at the timing case seal. If that seal leaks, then you either get diesel in your sump, or oil in your fuel.
I've had the truck for 11 years, since about 80,000km, and has been religiously serviced, oil and filters every 5,000km. This is the first and only major work that's been required.
IIRC pump price was about $700 incl about $150 extra for the shaft. I guess I saved a few hundred $ as the removal/refitting is a bit tricky and takes a few hours. I had injectors serviced at the same time, new fuel filter, and set tappets.
It was running okay and not too smokey (as TD42s go) before, despite injectors being stuffed. Main difference now is it's running a bit smoother at low revs, and pulling much more freely above 3,000rpm to red line with minimal black smoke. I think it's also using less fuel, not certain as I haven't measured it, but it seems to be quite a lot less.
Injectors and pump are factory spec, so simply reset pump to timing marks (they are hairlines - so you can re-set to within a fraction of a degree), but you'd need to set pump timing if you had modified pump and/or injectors.

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby tristanp » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:45 pm

700 for a full rebuild of a GP pump? including a new main shaft?
wow, back in 06 when i did my seals they wanted 2k + any parts that needed replacing.
needless to say i voted with my feet, last i heard truck is still running fine on that pump 100k later.

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby FreddyN » Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:51 am

tristanp wrote:back in 06 when i did my seals they wanted 2k + any parts that needed replacing.


Yeah - I just checked my receipt, and it (pump) was about $700 (incl GST), but the shaft itself was about $80 incl, not $150. The receipt has pump serial # on it, handy for if I do sell the truck.

It doesn't surprise me if there was a bit of goldrush mentality going on when you got that quote. But anyway, if a local garage was to do the job removing/installing, they're going to charge several hours labour, they'll send the pump out to a specialist, and then probably add 25-50% on top of that charge. I don't know what people end up paying if they take a safari/patrol with leaky pump to their local mechanic and just ask for it to be fixed. The TD42 pump removal/reinstall is a bit of a nasty/fiddly job, but apparently some other 4WDs are much worse. Wouldn't surprise me if some mechanics have developed an aversion to fixing leaky IPs, unless there's good $ in it for them. If they do the accessible seals with the pump in situ, which can work and many people seem to know about, there's also a good chance some jobs will come back biting them hard in the backside. My pump was leaking from the top seal mainly, but also from somewhere under the pump, and it was very hard to see.

IMO you've got to be philisophical about the $$. The motoring press wax lyrically about horrid (IMO) small euro common-rail turbo diesel cars, VW/Audi. BMW, and even nastier "marques" which seem to be selling like hot cakes these days. Ask a diesel pump specialist how much injector and IP work costs on these, and how many km the cars have done when they arrive needing this work done.
Unbelievably, some people buy these hand-grenades based on the deserved reputation for longevity and reliability of diesels like the TD42.

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby curly12 » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:27 pm

FreddyN wrote:FWIW, the pump on my '88 TD42 (200,000km) started leaking a month or so ago. Consensus from a few diesel specialists that I spoke to was that at 200,000km/20 years, the pump was overdue for a full service, and unless I planned on not keeping it for a few more years, then replacing accessible leaky seals in-situ wasn't a good idea. YMMV.
I took the pump out, Diesel Pumps Ltd (Parkhouse Rd) did the recond. As well as seals, it needed a new main shaft, which was worn and also badly scored at the timing case seal. If that seal leaks, then you either get diesel in your sump, or oil in your fuel.
I've had the truck for 11 years, since about 80,000km, and has been religiously serviced, oil and filters every 5,000km. This is the first and only major work that's been required.
IIRC pump price was about $700 incl about $150 extra for the shaft. I guess I saved a few hundred $ as the removal/refitting is a bit tricky and takes a few hours. I had injectors serviced at the same time, new fuel filter, and set tappets.
It was running okay and not too smokey (as TD42s go) before, despite injectors being stuffed. Main difference now is it's running a bit smoother at low revs, and pulling much more freely above 3,000rpm to red line with minimal black smoke. I think it's also using less fuel, not certain as I haven't measured it, but it seems to be quite a lot less.
Injectors and pump are factory spec, so simply reset pump to timing marks (they are hairlines - so you can re-set to within a fraction of a degree), but you'd need to set pump timing if you had modified pump and/or injectors.


Had a good chat to the Diesel place I got the seals from.
They have had about 5 wagons a week coming in since mid Sept. In fact the NZ importer of the seals has run out of them them. He is saying that the diesel mix has changed about 12 weeks ago and causing the problems.
:( :( :(
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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby Shane » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:50 pm

curly12 wrote:
FreddyN wrote:FWIW, the pump on my '88 TD42 (200,000km) started leaking a month or so ago. Consensus from a few diesel specialists that I spoke to was that at 200,000km/20 years, the pump was overdue for a full service, and unless I planned on not keeping it for a few more years, then replacing accessible leaky seals in-situ wasn't a good idea. YMMV.
I took the pump out, Diesel Pumps Ltd (Parkhouse Rd) did the recond. As well as seals, it needed a new main shaft, which was worn and also badly scored at the timing case seal. If that seal leaks, then you either get diesel in your sump, or oil in your fuel.
I've had the truck for 11 years, since about 80,000km, and has been religiously serviced, oil and filters every 5,000km. This is the first and only major work that's been required.
IIRC pump price was about $700 incl about $150 extra for the shaft. I guess I saved a few hundred $ as the removal/refitting is a bit tricky and takes a few hours. I had injectors serviced at the same time, new fuel filter, and set tappets.
It was running okay and not too smokey (as TD42s go) before, despite injectors being stuffed. Main difference now is it's running a bit smoother at low revs, and pulling much more freely above 3,000rpm to red line with minimal black smoke. I think it's also using less fuel, not certain as I haven't measured it, but it seems to be quite a lot less.
Injectors and pump are factory spec, so simply reset pump to timing marks (they are hairlines - so you can re-set to within a fraction of a degree), but you'd need to set pump timing if you had modified pump and/or injectors.


Had a good chat to the Diesel place I got the seals from.
They have had about 5 wagons a week coming in since mid Sept. In fact the NZ importer of the seals has run out of them them. He is saying that the diesel mix has changed about 12 weeks ago and causing the problems.
:( :( :(


local chch shop has been doing a few also(not just TD42)he says its when they changed to summer fuel that the problems started.

I had a seal kit fitted to my spare pump and fitted that last week.nice we job that is :shock:

Shane

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby FreddyN » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Shane wrote:
local chch shop has been doing a few also(not just TD42)he says its when they changed to summer fuel that the problems started.

I had a seal kit fitted to my spare pump and fitted that last week.nice we job that is :shock:

Shane



Yep - I guess that's about when mine started leaking. I buy road tax in 5,000km lots, do the oil filters, and give the engine a good check over, and it wasn't leaking at last service in about August.

As far as fitting the pump goes, I put a thread on Patrol4x4 com looking for some "how to" tips, as the Haynes manual is poorly written and jumps all over the place, but there was some server crash there, and the thread disappeared.

Some things not included in the Haynes manual:
Remove the lower plastic fan shroud for better access to timing cover plate bolts, and crank pulley nut. If turning the motor via crank pulley nut, you need a large (42mm?) socket. If it's a 5 spd, if you chock the wheels, jack a rear wheel, put it in 5th, then you can turn the motor that way, but you're going to do a bit of running back and forth.
Undo PS pump, remove belt, and push it out of the way so you can see what you're doing, You're still going to need a good but small work light.
Don't sweat the #1 cylinder TDC compression vs exhaust stroke too much. Line up the timing marks on the crank pulley and timing case, with timing cover plate removed, wipe the drive gears clean, and look for the "z" alignment marks. If they aren't aligned, then you're at TDC #1 exhaust, so just rotate the engine 360 deg and look again. The pump rotates once per two engine rotations.
Removing the drive gear with a puller isn't fun. You can't see what you're doing, so just close your eyes and go by feel. Try to resist the temptation to pull the radiator out so you can see. There's two threaded holes in the drive gear that look like they're there to use bolts to crack the gear out as per hubs etc, but I don't know if that's really why they're there, and something expensive might break if that's not what they're for.
The woodruff key on the pump drive shaft is at about 11 O'clock position when the engine is at TDC as above, so despite some fear, even if it's loose it's very unlikely to just fall out and drop down the timing case when you pull the gear off. The key was slightly loose in the new shaft I had fitted - that's more of a worry as getting the gear back in/aligned is very fiddly. I used a sharp centre-punch on the side of the key until it fit the slot nice and tight.
The gears are helical cut, so aligning the "z"s when reinstalling is even trickier than it sounds, as not only do you need to be sure that the pump shaft is rotated to the right position so the slot in the gear goes over the key, but you've got to do this taking in to account that the gear is going to rotate a little bit as it meshes, and your hands are going to be in the way of seeing what you're doing.
You need to remove injector lines at the injectors as well as the pump, as well as brackets so they can be shifted out of the way of the pump. Torque settings for the injector flare nuts are in the Haynes manual. Now you could use a crowsfoot adapter to torque these nuts on the injectors, but I reckon that there's close to zero chance of getting access to do this on the nuts on the pump. So if you're not good at guessing, practice with a torque wrench to get the "feel" to use a normal small spanner.
There's a bolt securing the pump to a bracket attached to the engine block. It's under the pump - where you can't really see it.
There's a gasket between the pump and timing case. It's a triangle with 4 holes in it - you can cut one in about a minute.
Probably forgotten some stuff there. I get the feeling that the Haynes manual was written by someone who did the job with an engine on a bench.

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby Shane » Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:53 am

FreddyN wrote:
Shane wrote:
local chch shop has been doing a few also(not just TD42)he says its when they changed to summer fuel that the problems started.

I had a seal kit fitted to my spare pump and fitted that last week.nice we job that is :shock:

Shane





nice work :D take me half a day to type that...

when turning engine over I used a 15/16 spanner on the alternator nut and push on the belt with your finger so belt doesnt slip(getting to the crank is a pain like you say).

8m thread in gear is for a puller as you said,I dont have that type of puller either.would make it easyer though

I left gear in front cover housing so only the keyway has to be lined up,thats probley the hardest part IMO.

once pumps in and running wind the fuel up and give her plenty of boost :shock: :D :shock:

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby FreddyN » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:54 am

I hadn't thought of trying refitting with the gear in place and sliding the pump in. But I guess as you say that's also tricky, as the pump is heavy and you're going to be trying to hold it at a very uncomfortable angle.

Found this interesting link on these forums, guide to a "simple" clean-up and re-seal on a VE pump. Looking at this has the same impact on me as looking at guides to disassembling/reassembling auto transmissions. My eyes kind of glaze over...
http://etc.gnarlodious.com/Vanagon/Bosc ... build.html

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby turoa » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:14 am

Bump for anyone else looking to do this. My pump started leaking badly after fueling up in Rotorua a few weeks ago so had a go at replacing the top seal. I got the top seal and throttle shaft O ring from Simms Diesel in Auckland for $9incl gst. Info in here is pretty good, the only thing is I marked and measured my fuel screw and removed that as it made it easier to get the top cover back on. You should replace the oring on there too if its out, I didn't have one so I didn't but at least you don't have to pull the top cover off to replace it if it starts leaking.

As above was probably 60-90mins all up including dropping some bolts on my gravel drive and spending ages trying to locate them :mrgreen:

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Re: Leaking GQ diesel pump

Postby MihiT » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:49 pm

Sounds like time to start adding 2T to your fill ups - will keep the seals lubed and swollen. I also run Lucas upper cylinder cleaner/lube every few tanks.
- 1990 LWB Safari flatdeck, TD42 -

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