Mistral ABS problems

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mistral07
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Mistral ABS problems

Postby mistral07 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:42 pm

Hi all,

I've been attempting to diagnose some issues with the ABS brakes on my Mistral (97 5 dr facelift) and was faithfully following the instructions in the FSM until I realised that the pump/actuator/ECU combination depicted in the manual wasn't peering back at me from the engine bay!

On this particular model it would appear the set-up is slightly different with the ABS computer located elsewhere... unfortunately a thorough search of the usual places (behind kick panels, transmission hump and beneath seats) hasn't revealed where.

Has anyone struck this before? Am open to suggestions because the amount of head scratching going on will soon render me bald at this rate.

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Crash bandicoot
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Crash bandicoot » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:23 pm

1997? you got the fun model huh, half way through a change over. could possibly have only had the ETI ecu installed for the engine and still run pre 96 everything else.

Rule number one. never by the first production of ANY vehicle. that includes facelift years.

according to the book it either does not exist... or look down the back under the plastic trim on the left hand side beside the glow plug timer and behind the centre of the dash. all that jazz.

for example did you know the right hand drive SLE also comes with anti skid control.? go figure

this could be help full.

http://nissan4u.com/parts/terrano2/er_r20/1997_10/
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.

mistral07
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby mistral07 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:38 am

Cheers for the reply but after checking behind the left rear plastic panel still no dice (besides finding the jack which I've never had occasion to look for previously). The link to parts drawings was really helpful though, and it managed to solve another issue so ta muchly.

Back to the matter at hand - I know roughly what the ABS computer looks like but short of dismantling the entire vehicle to find it I am stumped.

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Crash bandicoot
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Crash bandicoot » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:19 pm

just had a look at mine, it's a 98 thou', the ABS loom enters the cabin on the passengers side but the heavy wires don't travel as far as the ECU in the centre above the gearbox so i'd say with an educated guess that its behind the glove box above the AC/fan unit

oh by the way check the float in the brake reservoir. when ever there is a brake system fault it trips the ABS light, may not be the abs at all.
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.

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evolution02
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby evolution02 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:34 pm

Most common problem with mistral ABS is the wheel speed sensors for the front wheels. The wires from the plug down to the sensor gets a brake in it.
You need to test the resistance of each wheel speed sensor. Should be around 1kohm

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby mistral07 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:36 pm

Finally found the bastard!

Fixed behind the centre vents in the console beneath the very top of the dash. It's as though they've assembled the entire vehicle around it. This isn't my first Nissan or challenging repair, but getting this far has been an ordeal to say the least.

Yours may not be the same - the later models have the ECU for the ABS integrated within the pump/actuator in the engine bay. If so it'll have a single large plug ('Super-Multi' style in Nissan parlance) hanging out of it. if you ever have ABS problems you better pray it's that kind as 1) it's much easier to service, and 2) about half the cost if the whole thing is rooted.

On the subject of FSM coverage for this variant...there are several revisions of the R20 (Terrano 2/Mistral) FSM available from different sources, but the only one that illustrates this variant of the ABS system is a Spanish one available on jdmfsm.info - notwithstanding the need for translation it would be well worth anyone with a 97 facelift Missy grabbing a copy.

Now off to work out how to get the thing out so I can run the multimeter over it.

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby mistral07 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:41 pm

Started on the easy stuff - FR had a corroded connection and the FL bearing needed repacking.

Rectified those, cleared the errors and road tested, but still not playing nice. When I pulled the error codes again I got good old number 63 which is possibly an issue with the pump/actuator but to test you need to get at the ABS ECU hence the ordeal.

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby mistral07 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:49 pm

Ooops my bad - seems the FSM referred to earlier is actually in Italian. On the plus side Google Translate is pretty damn slick.

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snotgoblin
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby snotgoblin » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:08 pm

Have you recently changed the brake pads?

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Crash bandicoot
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Crash bandicoot » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:35 pm

Also Plan Z is to rip the whole lot out and go non ABS as the mistral did come without all the whistle's and bells aswell.
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby mistral07 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:48 am

It may yet be done!

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Keltec » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:01 pm

Resurrecting an old post!

So I have been having very similar issues. My ABS kicks in way more often the it should;

I can hear the pump periodically hiss when I am driving in a straight line down the road with no brakes applied.

When braking the ABS kicks in with pedal judder, and what feels like releasing the FL brakes. This can be pretty scary at times, once resulting in me almost rear ending a car... :shock: This is usually worse when turning or going over bumps. Every morning I have to cross a railway crossing with lots of train tracks, I turn just after the crossing so I'm always on the brakes as I cross and without fail the abs will kick in.

Depending on how often the ABS kicks in on a journey, the ABS light may come on...

I have tried so far;

Cleaning the FL ABS sensor and toothed ring

Repacking the bearings on both fronts, and tightening the hub nut up fairly tight. As I thought a little un necessary movement in the hub could cause a false signal

I have also fitted new discs and pads, one thing I noticed was the FR pads had way more wear then the FL, further leading me to the problem being on the FL (because the brakes on that side release too often and put excessive pressure on the other brakes)

So, does anyone have suggestions for what next???
I need to sort this soon, as I need to get a warrant this week and it's also ####### dangerous and scary!!! :shock: :lol:

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Crash bandicoot
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Crash bandicoot » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:20 pm

You narrowed it down ya self with "is worse when turning" and brake pad wear is only a symptom of the cause so don't look into that too deeply as once the issue is fixed the brakes will start wearing evenly again.

Swap the sensors from front to back so two known working sensors are at the front. This won't fix the issue( it might buy proberbly not) but what it will do I'd make it safer to drive in the mean time...also have you checked you haven't got a cracked or damaged abs ring on one axle?
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Keltec » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:01 pm

Cheers Crash, i did guess you'd be first in with an answer!

Are the front and rear sensors interchangeable? Also are they hard to swap?

Thats a good temporary fix, ill defo give that a try...

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Keltec » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:44 am

Well i finally got a chance to have a good look at the abs. The front and rear sensors are definitely NOT interchangeable. The tip of the sensor is angled 45 degrees on the front. And the mounting lug direction makes them specific for left or right too. So there goes the plan of swapping them... :evil:

Anyway I took out all of them, cleaned the tip and contacts and stuck them on the multimeter for a resistance test. Readings were FL 1669ohm, FR 1205, LR 1674, RR 1700. The FR which is the only one a bit off the rest is slightly different looking sensor so I don't even know if the different reading points to faulty sensor.

Back to the bloody drawing board. There is an auto sparky just accross the road from my new house, and they happen to have 3 older mistys parked up in their yard! I'll see if they have ABS and chuck in that FR sensor.

Failing that, could it be the abs pump? I really want to just rip out the pump and run no abs, but I don't know if the Wof guy would be too pleased?

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Keltec » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:19 am

Still haven't got to the bottom of this, but I did notice something funny...

On the last couple of hot days 25+ degrees, the ABS fault doesn't appear!?! :shock: I'm certain is was temp related, as it has done this on a couple of occasions. One day it was hot during the day (No ABS fault at all), then it cooled down a good bit in the evening as it does in the South Island, and the ABS fault was back!!!

So that is a little odd, it sounds to me like a connection somewhere is dodgy, but as the temp goes up enough the connection becomes more stable with expansion. It happens the other way around sometimes with ignition coils, works cold, breaks down when hot. But the ABS system wouldn't have much with coils or windings in it, the pump motor perhaps. So, it more and more points to the control board for the pump.

Is that part of the pump or controlled by the Body control unit?

I'll keep searching, if anyone has any ideas I'm all ears!...

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Crash bandicoot
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Crash bandicoot » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:35 am

Could well be dry joint on circuit board
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Keltec » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Hi Crash, is there a control circuit in the pump itself, or just the Body control unit?

Poor joints in the BCU might explain a couple of other issues i'm having with the intermittent wiper function not working and the passenger side window not working. Window works when I stick 12v straight to it, so the motor is good!

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Crash bandicoot » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:44 pm

yes if you lift the plastic cover off between the abs block/motor and the fire wall there are two relays and a couple of resistor circuts in there aswell .
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.

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churchill
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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby churchill » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:04 am

I'd also make sure that right caliper isn't dragging or the left caliper is not seized. That uneven pad wear and problem worse when turning sounds like uneven brake force. Does the vehicle pull to one side when braking?

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Keltec » Sat May 25, 2019 10:16 am

F*cking hell, 2 years later and I'm still smashing my head against a brick wall... I blame work, small children and Nissans retarded idea to put the ABS controller on the firewall... Inside the cabin! Yes, thats right the ABS control unit appears to be fkn buried up under the entire dashboard, heater/blower unit etc. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I've had it scanned to see where the fault actually is. FR abs sensor fault. But the FR sensor resistance tests perfectly. I hard wired the connector down near the wheel a few months ago, but that made no difference either.

So that leaves me with wiring to the controller, or damaged controller. Either way I need to get to the control unit so I can disconnect it and test the wiring. AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

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Re: Mistral ABS problems

Postby Keltec » Sun May 26, 2019 1:29 pm

Ok, I'm feeling a little more stable today...

I found the problem!!! It was nothing to do with the ABS control unit or the wiring to it. But it took me troubleshooting all the way that far and not finding a problem to make me go back and retrace my steps. And I noticed that after I could get the light to clear, it only came back on when turning right...

So I pulled the connector for the FR ABS sensor up by the engine, and setup to resistance test the sensor. So it all seems perfect (1k Ohms) with the wheels facing straight, then I got my wife to turn the wheels side to side and sure enough there was 1 spot where the resistance jumps up to open circuit! BINGO!!!

So I ripped the sensor out, and did some more testing to find the exact spot where the break is. This was for 2 reasons, my own sanity, and to see how far away from the sensor I could trim the wire. Turns out I could get about 150mm away from the sensor. And I also found the corroded broken section of the wire strands in both black and white wires, exact same spot where the cable flexes around the top wishbone.

I soldered on a new wire, and ran a new cable all the way to the connector by the engine. I haven't finished putting the dash back together, but a quick test drive, turning both ways etc. looks like it is fixed! :shock: :mrgreen:

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