Hi Guy, I am new here hopefully someone can help. I am having issues with my automatic 1995/6 TD 2.7 Terrano that surges sometimes at idle. Not regularly but has this occasional surge/ shudder. I have also noticed the slightest of surging when travelling / cruising on the open road at say 100km/h. More recently as slow speed the car will just cut out for no reason, this as happen twice in the last month.
Now to make things worse I am getting an orange engine constant flashing engine light. I have had this checked out by the local auto electrician and it came back as error code 22 fuel pump and he reset it. I have read here and elsewhere that this error code 22 could be very costly. I have looked at these two topics but am not sure if they are exactly related in any way.
1998 Nissan Terrano (Auto, QD32ETI) surges
[url]http://www.offroadexpress.kiwi/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=27625
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1990 Nissan Terrano Shudders when cruising.
[url]http://www.offroadexpress.kiwi/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=32923&p=360258&hilit=1990+Nissan+Terrano+Shudders+When+cruising.#p360258
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The flashing light stated after I had all the oils changed by the “oil changers” this was then re-set after seeing the outo-lec.
Today I had the fuel supply 17mm nut off and cleaned that as mentioned here.
So hopefully someone will be able to steer me in the right direction to pin-point the exact cause.
Thanks in advance and any feedback will be much appreciated, Bushy
TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code 22
Moderator: Mark
Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
Oh sorry I for got to mention. the car has only 140000km.
Thanks Bushy
Thanks Bushy
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Crash bandicoot
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Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
yep, it's fuel pump code, but before your wallet starts sweating code 22 is pretty vague, it could be one of 3 things on a vp pump
Spill control valve
fuel stop solenoid
timing control solenoid
the spill controll valve is the expensive one, what was once controlled by a wire cable connected to the accelerator pedal is now done by a potentometer and electomagnetics.
the potentometer reads the input from your right foot sending the signal to the ecu, the ecu in turn interperets this signal and converts it into a voltage signal sending it to the black box atop the injector pump, this in turn controls the valve the governs how much fuel is allowed to pass by the spill valve.
what happens is the contacts within the two aforemention components wear with time decreasing there ability to accuratly controll the valve creating hesitiation and random movements at anytime through out the span/duration of its operation. hence what you feel when you drive it, leave it to idle, stall at the traffic lights. Or in my case get that bad it completely stops responding.
so as you can imagine, due to the delecate nature of the internals these two, if faulty are non serviceable throw away items
fuel stop solenoid.
it is what kills the fuel supply to the pump when you turn the key off, otherwise it would keep running.
It requires a constant voltage supply when in operation to allow the fuel to flow.
Timing control,
this is on the side of the pump and has the ability to advance or retard the timing to suit the conditions dicatated by the ecu, if it feels the engine is getting to hot for example it can retard the timing, or if under heavy acceleration it can advance the timing closer to TDC to give more bang for buck (toyota d4d suffer from this compnent failure alot hence why the tend to rattle excessivly, but does not stop the engine from performing as such)
there are a few things to check first.
when did you last fill up and how empty was the tank?
Where was the fuel from a gas station or a farm tank?
when was the fuel filter last changed?
did the truck get water blasted or used in a water crossing recently?
open the water trap on the bottom of the fuel filter and drain about 50ml.
then hand prime the filter till it pumps up firm.
wiggle the loom and plugs that run from the injector pump up to the manifold and back to the fire wall.
check all plugs are clean and tight
check all fuel lines are tight and clamps in place.
at the end of the day it is hard to comment on a diagnosis as there are so many variables, it could be something simple like air still trapped in the fuel filter or the rubber seal on the filter housing has perished allowing air in, or a fail hose clamp on the fuel line
or worst case, it indeed be the control valve with in the pump and the system that controls it.
Spill control valve
fuel stop solenoid
timing control solenoid
the spill controll valve is the expensive one, what was once controlled by a wire cable connected to the accelerator pedal is now done by a potentometer and electomagnetics.
the potentometer reads the input from your right foot sending the signal to the ecu, the ecu in turn interperets this signal and converts it into a voltage signal sending it to the black box atop the injector pump, this in turn controls the valve the governs how much fuel is allowed to pass by the spill valve.
what happens is the contacts within the two aforemention components wear with time decreasing there ability to accuratly controll the valve creating hesitiation and random movements at anytime through out the span/duration of its operation. hence what you feel when you drive it, leave it to idle, stall at the traffic lights. Or in my case get that bad it completely stops responding.
so as you can imagine, due to the delecate nature of the internals these two, if faulty are non serviceable throw away items
fuel stop solenoid.
it is what kills the fuel supply to the pump when you turn the key off, otherwise it would keep running.
It requires a constant voltage supply when in operation to allow the fuel to flow.
Timing control,
this is on the side of the pump and has the ability to advance or retard the timing to suit the conditions dicatated by the ecu, if it feels the engine is getting to hot for example it can retard the timing, or if under heavy acceleration it can advance the timing closer to TDC to give more bang for buck (toyota d4d suffer from this compnent failure alot hence why the tend to rattle excessivly, but does not stop the engine from performing as such)
there are a few things to check first.
when did you last fill up and how empty was the tank?
Where was the fuel from a gas station or a farm tank?
when was the fuel filter last changed?
did the truck get water blasted or used in a water crossing recently?
open the water trap on the bottom of the fuel filter and drain about 50ml.
then hand prime the filter till it pumps up firm.
wiggle the loom and plugs that run from the injector pump up to the manifold and back to the fire wall.
check all plugs are clean and tight
check all fuel lines are tight and clamps in place.
at the end of the day it is hard to comment on a diagnosis as there are so many variables, it could be something simple like air still trapped in the fuel filter or the rubber seal on the filter housing has perished allowing air in, or a fail hose clamp on the fuel line
or worst case, it indeed be the control valve with in the pump and the system that controls it.
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
Thanks for the quick reply, your questions?
When did you last fill up and how empty was the tank?
• I fill up regularly, I fill-up before it get really empty.
Where was the fuel from a gas station or a farm tank?
• I always us the local Mobile gas station in my area.
When was the fuel filter last changed?
• Yesterday and before that the last time I had it serviced. I checked the filter that came out yesterday and it did not look to dad at all, looking through the small holes inside the filter. The filter paper was a light “TAN” colour. I took this as not being bad at-all.
Did the truck get water blasted or used in a water crossing recently?
• No.
The auto-elc checked all the wire connections at the time of diagnosing the error code 22 and confirmed all connections are good.
I also looked at this discussion topic which was very closely related. viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10200 It was this topic that got me thinking of removing and cleaning the 17mm nut. Not sure if I did it right.
Is there some way, maybe with photo or drawings that I can identify the parts you are referring to like the Spill control valve and fuel stop solenoid and their location? Thanks
When did you last fill up and how empty was the tank?
• I fill up regularly, I fill-up before it get really empty.
Where was the fuel from a gas station or a farm tank?
• I always us the local Mobile gas station in my area.
When was the fuel filter last changed?
• Yesterday and before that the last time I had it serviced. I checked the filter that came out yesterday and it did not look to dad at all, looking through the small holes inside the filter. The filter paper was a light “TAN” colour. I took this as not being bad at-all.
Did the truck get water blasted or used in a water crossing recently?
• No.
The auto-elc checked all the wire connections at the time of diagnosing the error code 22 and confirmed all connections are good.
I also looked at this discussion topic which was very closely related. viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10200 It was this topic that got me thinking of removing and cleaning the 17mm nut. Not sure if I did it right.
Is there some way, maybe with photo or drawings that I can identify the parts you are referring to like the Spill control valve and fuel stop solenoid and their location? Thanks
Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
I have added a few photos just too simplify the things for me and for others to comment on .Thanks
I clean this pick-up as well hoping it would improve things.
this photo is from the www, should there be a filter in the banjo this is the same view as my first photo showing the location of this bolt/ banjo.
In the first photo we removed the back bolt (left in image) and banjo and cleaned it out.
I clean this pick-up as well hoping it would improve things.
this photo is from the www, should there be a filter in the banjo this is the same view as my first photo showing the location of this bolt/ banjo.
In the first photo we removed the back bolt (left in image) and banjo and cleaned it out.
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Crash bandicoot
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Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
did the issue start before the fuel filter change....
also when removing the banjo bolt to the pump did you replace the copper washers? (2 of them)
My line of thinking, if the surging is a recent issue such as developed since being serviced it will be the result of somthing happening during the service.
the rubber plunger in the top of the fuel filter housing is known to break away allowing the pump to suck in air there,
the seal on the fuel filter it self may be damaged allowing air to be drawn in
who cleaned the pump off? one picture it has 5 years worth of road grime and oil on the next it is spotless.(or the other way around)
also when removing the banjo bolt to the pump did you replace the copper washers? (2 of them)
My line of thinking, if the surging is a recent issue such as developed since being serviced it will be the result of somthing happening during the service.
the rubber plunger in the top of the fuel filter housing is known to break away allowing the pump to suck in air there,
the seal on the fuel filter it self may be damaged allowing air to be drawn in
who cleaned the pump off? one picture it has 5 years worth of road grime and oil on the next it is spotless.(or the other way around)
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
Thanks, your questions;
Did the issue start before the fuel filter change....
• No, the surge has always been there since I got it in late 2007. The surge being very minimal only notice on the open road but not considered a major issue. But worth mentioning in the overall picture.
• The shudder is at idle in park or dive at traffic lights or when changing from park to drive, it has always been there since I got it but only happened very occasionally. Now it is happening far more regularly and becoming a concern.
• Recently in the last month twice the car has died on me once when taking of from a stop street. The other time is once the car has started it has died on me, then I must remove the keys before it will start again. This is my big concern and the fact that the engine light is flashing.
Also when removing the banjo bolt to the pump did you replace the copper washers? (2 of them)
• This was not done by me but I watched with hawk eyes, what came out went in again. (Yes).
Who cleaned the pump off? One picture it has 5 years’ worth of road grime and oil on the next it is spotless. (Or the other way around)
• The photo of the bolt removed is not my photo it was found on the www and was used to ask a question.
Did the issue start before the fuel filter change....
• No, the surge has always been there since I got it in late 2007. The surge being very minimal only notice on the open road but not considered a major issue. But worth mentioning in the overall picture.
• The shudder is at idle in park or dive at traffic lights or when changing from park to drive, it has always been there since I got it but only happened very occasionally. Now it is happening far more regularly and becoming a concern.
• Recently in the last month twice the car has died on me once when taking of from a stop street. The other time is once the car has started it has died on me, then I must remove the keys before it will start again. This is my big concern and the fact that the engine light is flashing.
Also when removing the banjo bolt to the pump did you replace the copper washers? (2 of them)
• This was not done by me but I watched with hawk eyes, what came out went in again. (Yes).
Who cleaned the pump off? One picture it has 5 years’ worth of road grime and oil on the next it is spotless. (Or the other way around)
• The photo of the bolt removed is not my photo it was found on the www and was used to ask a question.
Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
59bonnie wrote:Who cleaned the pump off? One picture it has 5 years’ worth of road grime and oil on the next it is spotless. (Or the other way around)
• The photo of the bolt removed is not my photo it was found on the www and was used to ask a question.
My questions:
Is there some way, maybe with photo or drawings that I can identify the parts you are referring to like the Spill control valve and fuel stop solenoid and their location?
The photo from the www showing the banjo removed. Should there be a filter in the banjo? Would it be worthwhile removing it and checking it?
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Crash bandicoot
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Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
Not all pumps had a guaze below the banjo bolt. mine certainly didn't and if it had it was gone before i got it.
The service manual in PDF form can be downloaded from pretty much any dedicated nissan forum around the world. the R20 TD27/QD32 eti manual is the same as the terrano albiet with a top mounted intercooler instead of a front mounted one.
the manual for the engine managment system is 454 pages and that is just the engine section, so it is pretty comprehensive.
IF you really want to know what is involved this is your best bet at it.
unfortuntely from the answers you have provided to the questions asked, I'd say yes your pump is starting to fail.
the best solution to this issue is to hunt down the injector pump from a pre 96 TD27 turbo and fit that instead.
below is a picture of a mechanical pump, to give you an idea of the internals
the entire upper section of this is replaced by the "black' box you find atop yours.
The service manual in PDF form can be downloaded from pretty much any dedicated nissan forum around the world. the R20 TD27/QD32 eti manual is the same as the terrano albiet with a top mounted intercooler instead of a front mounted one.
the manual for the engine managment system is 454 pages and that is just the engine section, so it is pretty comprehensive.
IF you really want to know what is involved this is your best bet at it.
unfortuntely from the answers you have provided to the questions asked, I'd say yes your pump is starting to fail.
the best solution to this issue is to hunt down the injector pump from a pre 96 TD27 turbo and fit that instead.
below is a picture of a mechanical pump, to give you an idea of the internals
the entire upper section of this is replaced by the "black' box you find atop yours.
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
Thanks, just what is the part number for my fuel pump? Thinking of replacement..... maybe do some more research.
I am thinking it should remain standard.
Where should I be looking for a part or model number to confirm correct bought in parts?
Could I try replacing the parts you mentioned in the begging? Like the Spill control valve, fuel stop solenoid and timing control solenoid ....
What would these correct part names/ numbers be for my vehicle?
Still I prefer photo.
Thanks Bushy
I am thinking it should remain standard.
Where should I be looking for a part or model number to confirm correct bought in parts?
Could I try replacing the parts you mentioned in the begging? Like the Spill control valve, fuel stop solenoid and timing control solenoid ....
What would these correct part names/ numbers be for my vehicle?
Still I prefer photo.
Thanks Bushy
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Crash bandicoot
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- Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:19 pm
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Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
Search for my r20 mistral thread, you will see a picture of my old eti pump with all the numbers on it
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
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Crash bandicoot
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Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
Waiter...there is a drought in my glass.
Re: TD 2.7 that surges/ shudders and has warning light code
Thanks, that's great. Just up-side-down to me. But great thanks.
Looks like this is not a job for the average Joe. You need heaps of patients, very small hands. A degree in electronics and a mechanical internship to time and set it up...
I found this http://steldiesel.ru/files/crdensoservismanual.pdf hope it will help, what do you think?
Cheers Bushy
Looks like this is not a job for the average Joe. You need heaps of patients, very small hands. A degree in electronics and a mechanical internship to time and set it up...
I found this http://steldiesel.ru/files/crdensoservismanual.pdf hope it will help, what do you think?
Cheers Bushy
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