Bump Steer Testing

[SamLogan]

I went to see Wayne Cert guy down in CHCH today and he has informed me that as of last week all vehicles that have has any modifications done to the steering and front suspension will be required to undergo bump steer testing and for most this will cost another 200 bucks putting cert for these mods at roughly $620. He told me that he only found out on Tuesday night last week and that it is now required. For coil sprung vehicles this means that the front springs must be removed and he has no idea how on earth to do a leaf sprung vehicle as it also would require the leaves to be removed which wouldn't work as the axle would then be free to move.

He is less than impressed with having to do it and so am I. When is all this bureaucracy going to stop. It is just more money that we need to pay for a problem that was never a problem in the first place. If a vehicle has bumpsteer surely it is easy enough to find when they do the compulsory test drive isn't it? Wayne said himself has has never had problems with it.

Sam

[jonossiksilvia]

So how is removing the coils gonna make a difference to bump steer or am I missing something. Surely can be done with coils in place as u not gonna drive around without springs in cause that will get ya a pinky on ya window?

[SamLogan]

thats just what he said haha. he is going to put jacks in instead so he can lift each side or something. he is not even sure as they have not told the certifiers how to do it yet.

Sam

[jonossiksilvia]

just another reason I wanna get mine certed before they change it yet again lol

[muddyhilux]

un bloody believable,no wait a minute,its completely believable.theyve found another way to take our money so they're going to .keep us updated mate,looks like they'l be a few of us that are going to need to go through this

[pruggerdore]

They want to see what is happening to steering angles as the suspension cycles through its complete range of movement... with leaves gets a bit tricky.
pulling down the suspension hard to anchors in the ground would work but then they still need to set perimeters that are measurable. maybe on a wheel alignment machine.
I did mine (leaves)on the trailer kind of by accident, more to check driveshaft sliploint travel than anything. used winch down to trailer drawbar.
worked well.

just another reason to put it on a trailer

[SamLogan]

Yeah thats how he says he will do it. What i don't understand is why all of a sudden its become an issue. Its just made certs more expensive and more complicated. Wayne said he had no idea nor did the others at the meeting have any idea this was coming in. Once again ltnz making up crap without talking to or asking anyone.

Sam

[tallsam66]

I suspect its not coming from LTSA but more likely LVVTA ..they are the people that put these stupid ideas into LTSA head.

[SamLogan]

who ever they are they are a bunch of twats. Not only does it cost more money, its the fact that Wayne doesn't have the time to take the coils out so i have to go in and do it and then wait around for him so he can then test it for an issue that really isn't an issue. He has a car in there that was imported from Japan, built in the UK has had no work on it and needs a cert that is going to cost the owner $1200. What are they thinking? It has been run in 2 other countries fine but because of new laws etc it needs an expensive cert.

As Wayne said and i agree in a few years time there will be no modified 4x4's on the road. They will all be on trailers as it is going to cost a small fortune to cert them.

Sam

[Sadam_Husain]

All our modified trucks will ultimately end up on trailers thats just the natural progression with complience and to be fair we've all had it pretty easy up untill now, you can fight it but the system will always end up winning


start putting pennies away for a tow vehicle and trailer now

[SamLogan]

i think i might have to. Its a shame that it is looking like it is going to come to that though.

Sam

[Sadam_Husain]

Its a shame that it is looking like it is going to come to that though.

Sam

not nesscearily, you loose the convenience factor but realistically the more offroad capable you make your truck the less onroad capable it becomes and they dont end up that nice (or as safe ) to drive on the road and the bennifit you'll get is not having to spend $1000's on wofs and complience trying to keep it road legal and you can spend all that money on whatever unrestricted mods you want to do

[SamLogan]

That is very true i guess. Mine is going to be heading that way but i want to keep it onroad until i get a tow vehicle and a trailer haha.

Sam

[Mudde1]

Before you get too critical of LVVTA, you may like to ask your certifier to show you a copy of the coroners report into the fatal accident known as the "Silver Subaru accident" All certifiers have been sent a copy. I am confident that anyone who has read that report will understand the need for the steering tests. Joshua Peters didn't mod any vehicles, didn't drive the vehicle, didn't own the vehicle, but he paid with his life for someone else s lack of checking modified steering. i am sure that his parents wished that LVVTA had done more to ensure that bump steer testing was introduced sooner than it was. any certifer who has read that report will insist on proper testing of steering.

[suzolla]

Hi, couple of questions regarding the accident.

Is there a copy of the report available.
Was it proven that the accident was due to bump steer.
I am presuming from your comments that the steering had been modified and had been through the certification inspection process. And that the certification inspection had not picked up the steering issues tha caused the accident, I am presuming that is the reason additional checks are being required for certification.
Or is this a case of a dodgy modification causing a knee jerk reaction.
Would be interesting to know the back ground.

Cheers
Tim

[SamLogan]

from what i have read from the newspaper articles the owner of the car had just purchased it from someone who put a toyota 4 litre v8 in it (1uz) and had modified the suspension to clear by lowering it 40mm. It pointed out that this was an issue. The article also goes on to the driving of the driver who was convicted of careless driving causing death.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5471826 ... atal-crash

My issue with these test is the certifiers road test the vehicles at motorway speeds to check for issues like that. In this case, the certifier was not qualified to perform a cert on this vehicle and it should have been left at that. It should have been referred onto someone else. It is a very sad accident but there becomes a point where this is a knee jerk reaction.

Is it going to come to the point where mechanics (like i have been told has been happening in the UK by an English workmate) are going to have to get the supervisor to check all the wheel nuts on a car before it goes out just in case they fall off. It was one horrible case and a family has paid a horrible price but if the cert was done properly it should have been picked up which is why you take your car to a certifier and not a WOF checker. I was told by a reliable source when i got my truck certed for the 2 inch suspension lift and 2 inch body lift, that there were 2 different groups of certifiers in NZ. ones who actually did some for on engineering and ones who did the paper work. After a big shuffle around some of the ones doing the paperwork got made into certifiers and have remained as certifiers even though they have little to no engineering background.

Sam

[Sketchy_Racer]

Before you get too critical of LVVTA, you may like to ask your certifier to show you a copy of the coroners report into the fatal accident known as the "Silver Subaru accident" All certifiers have been sent a copy. I am confident that anyone who has read that report will understand the need for the steering tests. Joshua Peters didn't mod any vehicles, didn't drive the vehicle, didn't own the vehicle, but he paid with his life for someone else s lack of checking modified steering. i am sure that his parents wished that LVVTA had done more to ensure that bump steer testing was introduced sooner than it was. any certifer who has read that report will insist on proper testing of steering.

Very sad to lose a life in any case, but there has been accidents where wheel nuts have fallen off and that have killed people are we going to need to have ridiculous certs to tighten wheel nuts now? Dont be ####### stupid. This is prime knee jerk response and the fact that certifiers are being told to remove leaf springs to check bump steer only highlights that these new "Saftey" ideas have come from a prime pen pusher with his head up his arse.

Given that the driver was charged with careless driving would also state that he was quite likely being a twat and that combined with quickened steering from the mods and a lack of skill to compensate = crash. Cause? the bugger behind the wheel, cars don't crash themselves.

[De-Ranged]

My understanding of the bump test was that, its about cycling the suspension to make certain all the steering components are clearanced to every thing and no silly ratio issues (steering box's swinging in different arc's can create this...) and that balljoints etc are not past there operational limits
I can't see why they would need to pull the springs???

[tallsam66]

Have a read of this...this is the procedurethey will be using.

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/infosheets/LVVTA_Info_05-2010_Bump-steer_Swing-check_Procedure.pdf

Background info

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/documents/infosheets/LVVTA_Info_04-2010_Bump-steer_Measurement_Background_Information.pdf

[vinceparts]

that doceument only realtes to ifs front and rear cars, so maybe this wont apply to leaf spring cars/trucks....

[UBZ]

interesting reading

So the test applies to IFS vechiles only????

No mention of leaf sprung or solid axles.

Also thought the bit about your shock absorber/ coil over being the limiting factor in suspension travel interesting.

[MK1TNA]

interesting reading

So the test applies to IFS vechiles only????

No mention of leaf sprung or solid axles.

Also thought the bit about your shock absorber/ coil over being the limiting factor in suspension travel interesting.

I thought the same thing theres alot of rambling about toe angle change its my understanding on solid axle vehicles that that cant change once its set regardless of suspension travel location? ofcourse i could be wrong

[muddyhilux]

yeh have seen this done on ifs hot rods as pictured and was for good reason but i dont see how it applies to sas'd trucks.it makes sense for the certifiers to be cycling the suspension to check for bind but thought that would be it.will be interesting to see what heppens with this

and yeah,shocks being the limiting factor is going to cost people a lot of money in replacement shocks

[SamLogan]

nope Wayne said my truck would have to undergo said testing as the steering/front suspension had been modified. His words were that he doesn't not really know how to measure/check something that is theoretical and that the only real way to check is mathematically. He said with leaf sprung vehicles the only method of checking that he could think of was to put hooks on the floor and pull each side down and test it that way. I am guessing they will be just testing binding on articulation but why would you need to do such extensive tests removing springs etc.

Sam

[crazyclark31]

also if the bars are not fitted correctly then there will be a good variation inreadings. As there is only a very small contact patch on the hub and only one bolt conecting the mounting bars to the measuring bar there going to quite a bit of flex/movement in that setup. Not to mention alot of mucking around
On ifs setups though I can see how it is an important issue but it isn't an issue on beam axle vehciles. I'd be arguing the point on using the shocks as travel limiters as well. On a 4x4 they'd last bugger all time.

Mike

[Mudde1]

Before you get too critical of LVVTA, you may like to ask your certifier to show you a copy of the coroners report into the fatal accident known as the "Silver Subaru accident" All certifiers have been sent a copy. I am confident that anyone who has read that report will understand the need for the steering tests. Joshua Peters didn't mod any vehicles, didn't drive the vehicle, didn't own the vehicle, but he paid with his life for someone else s lack of checking modified steering. i am sure that his parents wished that LVVTA had done more to ensure that bump steer testing was introduced sooner than it was. any certifer who has read that report will insist on proper testing of steering.

Very sad to lose a life in any case, but there has been accidents where wheel nuts have fallen off and that have killed people are we going to need to have ridiculous certs to tighten wheel nuts now? Dont be ####### stupid. This is prime knee jerk response and the fact that certifiers are being told to remove leaf springs to check bump steer only highlights that these new "Saftey" ideas have come from a prime pen pusher with his head up his arse.

Given that the driver was charged with careless driving would also state that he was quite likely being a twat and that combined with quickened steering from the mods and a lack of skill to compensate = crash. Cause? the bugger behind the wheel, cars don't crash themselves.

you need to read the coroners report to get the correct information. News papers are not a reliable source of information.
Tony

[Mudde1]

Hi, couple of questions regarding the accident.

Is there a copy of the report available.

Yes, just contact the coroners office.

Was it proven that the accident was due to bump steer.
In very simple terms, yes, but as is usually that case, its somewhat more complex than that

I am presuming from your comments that the steering had been modified and had been through the certification inspection process.
yes

And that the certification inspection had not picked up the steering issues tha caused the accident,

yes
I am presuming that is the reason additional checks are being required for certification.
partly true.
Or is this a case of a dodgy modification causing a knee jerk reaction.
i don't think think so,
Would be interesting to know the back ground.

have a look at the coroners report.

Cheers
Tim

[tomsoffroad]

I can understand the coils being removed to move suspension (beam axle trucks) through its travel to check for binding. But the rest seems like a waste of time because as has been mentioned the toe doesn't change neither will the ackerman.
Yeah it another cost but theres nothing really threatening to our sport there.

[tallsam66]

Well how about posting a link to the coroners report ..then we can see what ya on about ...no good you keeping saying we should read it ...POST IT

[mud_slinger]

Well how about posting a link to the coroners report ..then we can see what ya on about ...no good you keeping saying we should read it ...POST IT

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