Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel drive

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Mudde1
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Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel drive

Postby Mudde1 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:16 am

This track is partly an unformed legal road but is mostly on Department of Conservation land. NZFWD have a management agreement with DoC to manage this track and access to the Track is closed during the winter months. As a result of a complaint from Waikato Regional Council that the use of the track was causing silt to be discharged into the local stream, DoC and NZFWDA closed the track a little earlier than expected this year.
There is clear evidence of 4x4 vehicles accessing the track and causing more damage during its closure. Including using considerable force to force open the gate, inflicting considerable damage to the gate which is going to be costly to repair. The track itself has been damaged by being used during very wet months.
This behaviour is of major concern to NZFWDA and makes it very difficult for us to present four wheel drivers as a responsible group when dealing with regional councils and DoC Unfortunately this behaviour reflects on every responsible 4 wheel driver and could directly led to the permanent closure of the track to everyone.
I have a little information about who is responsible for the damage, but as yet have not been able to identify exactly who they are. If anyone has any information about this incident I would be very very keen to find out any information that may led us to those people who are damaging the reputation of us all for their own personal gain. You may even have been involved and are now feeling a little guilty and may like to contact me in confidence so that we can follow this up.
Its no good complaining about track closures when our owne are creating the problem.
It would be a shame to lose this iconic track for ever.

Again we ask for patience until we are able to reopen this track.
Tony.

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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby pruggerdore » Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:54 pm

Hi Muddle. Responsible play by the rules 4wder here. Just thinking as more and more tracks get closed to us whether we play by the rules or not whats the point. Has anybody really genuinely got the right to close the legally unformed roads on doc land or otherwise. Doc and council make out they do but is the legal legislation there to allow them to do it without consultation. council are responsible for the road upkeep and as such should be taking steps to protect highways with drainage etc but would rather put the obligation back on us as surrounding land users. I think it needs to be broadly challenged in the courts country wide. As s on a case by case basis nz4wda is going to progressively loose every time. The way things are going presently progressively 4wding and access to public land for all is going to be a thing of the past !!! How many iconic places for 4wding are there left. Waitapheta will be closed regardless of how much bowing down you do, Decision has long been made. All tracks closed for winter, then whats the point its a winter sport. Need to add water to make it fun. Is smashing down gates the only way the public are going to get access? or does the public just meekly let it happen as it is, Quietly led like sheep most unaware of what is happening. Doc's mandate is close up national reserves etc so they can be enjoyed for future generations. So at what point does future generations gain access. wont ever happen. Fight now or it will be gone forever.

Last I heard the nz4wda is Quite a wealthy outfit. We pay our asociation fees and besides a bit of untested insurance what do we get? How about do something use full like challenge access in the courts etc. start a movement and thousands of non 4wders who all have an interest in access will get behind it . Doc has to much power and needs reigning in . Conservation needs to be done yes but balanced with the rights of the of the people. Only people I know that truly get to enjoy our wilderness are Doc workers!
NZer's need to stand up To the rule makers on so many issue's. Completely change the way our parliament works. We live in a Dictatorship and need to rebel. Mass rioting styles.

OK rant over. Clive :evil: :evil: :x :x

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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby lax2wlg » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:20 pm

I agree, people should vigorously exercise their right to free speech and I believe that they don't do it for fear of 'rocking the boat' (political correctness)

Its definately not a democracy in the true sense of the word. In a true democracy the people would decide whether the track gets closed.

Its an old fashioned kangaroo government designed to silence the sheeple, favour participation over performance/exceptionalism, take the hard earned money of some and redistribute it as they see fit, suppress individual thought and insist on maintaining an antiquated and outdated conservative value system. All while giving the illusion that we actually have a choice.

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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby nzlux » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:37 pm

Before we get all excited about doc closing legal roads re-read the first post

"This track is partly an unformed legal road but is mostly on Department of Conservation land"

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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby coxsy » Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:10 pm

wealthy group,? get voted in to running the NZ4WDA and see how much the y have to use for our benefit ,you'll see how little there is to go around,
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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby Mudde1 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Clive
Firstly its great hear that you are a responsible 4wder. We need lots of them and they help considerably in gaining access to new areas of land. I need to make a few things clear. There is no such thing as an unformed legal road ON DoC (or private) land. The saying goes, A road is a road, is a road, is a road. It may have private property or DoC land on either side of the road, but the road is council controlled in every case and it is up to council to decide what happens on that road. Only council can permanently close a road (Called stopping) and there is a specific process they must go through to do this. Local farmers cannot legally close a ULR. NZFWDA has been very active in opposing stopping of legal roads for many years and several years ago won a major case which is now regularly referred to by courts considering objections to road closures. NZFWDA continues to be involved in opposing closure of ULRs (unformed legal roads) and writing submissions regarding ULRs
There is no legal requirement for any council to maintain or upgrade ULRs.
Current government policy is to open more land to recreational use and NZFWDA are in very regular contact with DoC at the very highest levels regarding this. We are in the process of setting up partnership programmes with DoC and there are a number of areas where increased 4x4 access in being worked on. In one case, I expect to be able to announce a doubling in length of track available to 4x4 vehicles very soon. This is a direct result of changes in Government policy in the last 3 or 4 years and NZFWDA work with DoC and other user groups. There is no question that Waitapheta would have been closed permanently several years ago had it not been for NZFWDA efforts and changes in Government policy.
What do you get for your NZFWDA fees? That’s a short question with a very long answer, The information is widely distributed to members but if you really want to know what we do, why you don’t invite NZFWDA to address your club meeting so we can ensure that you are up to date.
Tony Burgess

NZFWDA
Tony.

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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby slidenyo » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:33 am

installation of trail cameras at track entrances to collect evidence of non compliance would be my suggestion,
then take private prosecutions against those in breach.
you might find what has been declared as 4wd damage could be quad or sidebyside users,
hunters, trampers or even prospectors.
Councils will blame the most obvious cause,
supply evidence to them that it is someone else and they will have to withdraw there complaint.
problems are only a problem if you not willing to learn how to find solutions

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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby coxsy » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:14 pm

I heard that there was trucks covered in mud were seen coming out of there one weekend, outkast trucks
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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby Mudde1 » Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:47 pm

slidenyo wrote:installation of trail cameras at track entrances to collect evidence of non compliance would be my suggestion,
then take private prosecutions against those in breach.
you might find what has been declared as 4wd damage could be quad or side by side users,
hunters, trampers or even prospectors.
Councils will blame the most obvious cause,
supply evidence to them that it is someone else and they will have to withdraw there complaint.

Considering the force that would be required to do the damage I would be surprised if a quad or side by side could create that much force, however the involvement of side by sides and quads hasn't been ruled out.
If it takes cameras to ensure continued access to a area, then that could be what we need to do.
Tony Burgess.
Tony.

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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby Pico42 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:40 am

pruggerdore wrote:Hi Muddle. Responsible play by the rules 4wder here. Just thinking as more and more tracks get closed to us whether we play by the rules or not whats the point. Has anybody really genuinely got the right to close the legally unformed roads on doc land or otherwise. Doc and council make out they do but is the legal legislation there to allow them to do it without consultation. council are responsible for the road upkeep and as such should be taking steps to protect highways with drainage etc but would rather put the obligation back on us as surrounding land users. I think it needs to be broadly challenged in the courts country wide. As s on a case by case basis nz4wda is going to progressively loose every time. The way things are going presently progressively 4wding and access to public land for all is going to be a thing of the past !!! How many iconic places for 4wding are there left. Waitapheta will be closed regardless of how much bowing down you do, Decision has long been made. All tracks closed for winter, then whats the point its a winter sport. Need to add water to make it fun. Is smashing down gates the only way the public are going to get access? or does the public just meekly let it happen as it is, Quietly led like sheep most unaware of what is happening. Doc's mandate is close up national reserves etc so they can be enjoyed for future generations. So at what point does future generations gain access. wont ever happen. Fight now or it will be gone forever.

Last I heard the nz4wda is Quite a wealthy outfit. We pay our asociation fees and besides a bit of untested insurance what do we get? How about do something use full like challenge access in the courts etc. start a movement and thousands of non 4wders who all have an interest in access will get behind it . Doc has to much power and needs reigning in . Conservation needs to be done yes but balanced with the rights of the of the people. Only people I know that truly get to enjoy our wilderness are Doc workers!
NZer's need to stand up To the rule makers on so many issue's. Completely change the way our parliament works. We live in a Dictatorship and need to rebel. Mass rioting styles.

OK rant over. Clive :evil: :evil: :x :x


Mate, can I respectively suggest you become a bit more informed about things so your criticism is more constructive?

1) Closing a road is a temporary measure by the road controlling authority (eg District Council for an event over a weekend). Stopping a road is a permanent measure than means the road is no longer a road. Again, it can only be done by a road controlling authority after a fairly lengthy and expensive process executed under either the Public Works Act of the Local Government Act.
2) "Road" in the above context is a legal road. That is a piece of land, boundary to boundary, that is classed as road as per the Land Act.
3) Which is not to be confused with a road or track or carriageway or route or path or other such description of a physical corridor the is quite distinct to the legal "Road" above. In the example you give, you refer to closing a road crossing DoC land - this would be stopping a track that crosses between a legal road corridor and DoC land.
4) A legal road is not DoC's to stop. Or close. It would be exactly like you going out to the Road in front of your house and putting a barricade in the way to stop noisy traffic - the council would be p!ssed because it is their responsibility and you would have no right to interfere with the road.
5) Your statement that the NZFWDA is progressively losing every time is, quite simply, incorrect. As Tony has highlighted, they had a significant win that acts as case law for a large number of other proposed road droppings (there were many proposed in a Central Otago that simply didn't go any further because the person proposing the stopping realised it would not be just approved - it would have serious community input that would likely stall it.
6) Your further comments regarding the actions of the NZFWDA and what you get for your money, I think you have significantly undervalued or misrepresented what the NZFWDA does with our money and perhaps need to learn more about that to make more constructive criticism.

Don't get me wrong, if something can be done better by the NZFWDA, I am all for telling the elected representatives all about that. And it has been my experience that they are very receptive to this. But I have seen on a few previous occasions where some people have got the wrong end of the stick about the associations actions and the motives behind them (eg the drug free sport push and the lift laws / authority card kerfluffle) and it has been frustrating to see this at times.

7) With regards to DoC's mandate, there has been a bit of a sea change in recent years. Simply put (and perhaps oversimplified) they have no budget for many of the fringe lands that 4WD's would generally use and as a result they have become very open to "partnerships" that have other groups "adopting" areas or tracks for use and maintenance. Look at what the Shotover Club and NZFWDA achieved with the Bullendale Track together with DOC. The original proposal was met with a blanket "no, and now we know you are using the track, we are closing it" to "sure, here is the HPT assessment, take a digger in and blow a new track past that problem spring that's screwing it up for everyone". I can't say I know much beyond our area, but I imagine there are many similar successes around the country.

Anyway, that my $0.02. It is intended as a genuine response that does not want to stifle good debate and contribution.

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Re: Taieri Road/ Waitawheta. Deliberate damage by 4 wheel dr

Postby Mudde1 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:46 pm

Waitawheta / Taieri Road.
It has come to my attention that there has again been deliberate damage to this track. The gates that have been blocking both entrances to the Waitawheta / Taieri Road track (which is on DoC. land) have been stolen and 4x4 vehicles have been accessing this track and causing major damage to the track. We have clear evidence that these are 4x4 enthusiast’s vehicles so it is very likely that someone on here knows who is involved in this. I need to make it very clear that there is a very high possibility that this action is very likely to lead to the permanent and total loss of the use of this track.
The problem is that silt from the track is ending up in the local waterways which supply water to housing downstream and local farmers have spent massive amounts of money planting the river banks, only to see the streams damaged by siltation from 4x4 tracks, resulting in multiple complaints to Waikato Regional Council.
Waikato Regional Council issued an abetment notice to DoC. requiring them to prevent all and any access to the track by vehicles. DoC. will very likely face legal action unless they do everything in their power to prevent vehicles using this track. For some time NZFWDA have been working with DoC. and Waikato regional Council to have the track reopened but that process is now in serious jeopardy as DoC. will now need to put even more effort into preventing vehicles accessing the area. A lot of the progress we had made has been undone because the damage done will need to be repaired before there is any possibility of the track reopening, and that will cost a lot of money.
The culverts that were intended to be part of the repairs to the track have also been stolen. These culverts were 6 M long and very heavy; the gates that were stolen were 150mm DiA heavy wall pipe. Someone put considerable effort into removing the gates and culverts. It was not a 5 minute job and most likely several people involved, and most likely someone on this forum knows who is involved.
It is vital that no vehicles access Waitawheta / Taieri Road 4x4 track until such time as there is a clear legal agreement in place. I know that people are frustrated by the closure of the few public 4x4 tracks in the northern half of the north Island, but taking the law into your own hands and cutting gates just makes things worse for everyone. We were hoping to have Waitawheta / Taieri Road opened early next year, but that has now been delayed, possibly for some considerable time.
If you think I sound pissed off, you are right. A lot of NZFWDA people have put a lot of hard work into this (and other tracks) and that work could well be undone by a small group who think only of themselves and think short term.
If you want to continue using your 4x4 vehicle off road, join one of the well-established responsible clubs and follow the simple rules they have in place, then you become part of the solution, not part of the problem.
I would love to have someone admit responsibility for the theft and wilful damage and take responsibility for doing what they can to undo the damage. If you know anything at all about this and want to be do something responsible to protect our recreation and to be able to continue to use your 4x4 off road, let us know what you know about this.
Tony Burgess
Public Relations Officer
New Zealand Four Wheel Drive Association.
Tony.

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