Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

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Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby xj » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:49 pm

Front trackbar issues... continued from : viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10611

its doing my head in.

Measured up the distance from inside tyre to chassis, and found it to be 20mm out to the left (as if your sitting in the vehicle), so the drop knuckle was actually pushing the diff out too far. (hence the previous bolt bending issues im picking) Took the knuckle off and just bolted the stock one straight back up and now its only 7mm out to the right. With a 5 inch (total) lift, this shouldnt be the case.

Straightened up the steering wheel by way of twirling the adjustable tie-rod about, but now the rear is stepping out to the left when changing gear. I'm taking a punt that now the front and rears diffs are out of synch in respective positioning and the rear one will need to bought into line.

Might just take it to a shop.....
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby TJ » Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:05 am

When you lift a Wrangler, this is common (actually common on anything that has trackbars i.e. panhard rods).

If you want them to be aligned properly, you either need a suitable drop bracket on both front and rear panhard rods or have them adjustable. People normally go with adjustables because its easier if you mess up measuring everything when cutting and chopping. You can always take up that mistake in the "adjustment" part of it.

I would say make them both adjustable and be done with it. You would just need to take them off and get them done OR buy new adjustable ones. Something like:

http://www.rokmen.com/products/suspensi ... acbar.html

Although be careful, US front trackbars won't fit as they for LHD (steering is above the diff). But you can use the design for "ideas".

Let me know how you get on, I might be interested in something similar if you can convince an engineering shop to make a few with proper dom tubing and sleeves.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby xj » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:08 pm

rear one is already adjustable.
waiting on a price from wooders for an adjustable front trackbar... but ill probably go with my original intent and get one cut and sleeved here.
The drop bracket that WAS on it is crap.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby xj » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:34 pm

BUT.... hhhmmmm..... to use an adjustable trackbar would mean losing the drop knuckle, which although the length can be compensated for, the return to the original angle will upset the parallel angle relationship with the draglink. This would mean that the bracket for the draglink would have to be removed to correct the relative angles... which creates yet another problem.

So, a solution would be to put the knuckle back on, get another eye for the supporting rod thingy, and WELD the knuckle and the insert sleeve together to stop the leteral movement, and if need be, fabricate a flange to secure the whole fandangle circus onto the stock mount. Then the angles are still sweet - no bump steer, and the movement (weak points) are negated......

UNLESS..................
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby TJ » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:16 pm

Before you go any further with welding, can you post a picture of entire steering system (i.e. tyre-to-tyre). I think you are making it more complicated than it ought to be.

BTW, Whiteline (out of Australia) used to do one for TJs (part number KPR027):

http://turbowholesale.com/catalog/White ... -8310.html

But people had problems with the weakness of the end joint used and welds cracking. As for the design and shape, it was perfect. Wooders is/was working on strengthening the design. I don't know whether he has finished it or not. Its normally better to give him a call, David very seldomly replies to his emails (its annoying, but thats how he is).
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby xj » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:31 am

Already been in touch with Wooders and Whiteline.... waiting for a response from both.
May be making it complicated, but also want it right. The draglink and trackbar are supposed to be parallell in order to avoid bump steer, eliminating the drop knuckle is going to upset that. Thing is, how important is it?
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby TJ » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:31 am

I personally would make the stock trackbar adjustable and connect it and see how bad the angles are without the drop bracket. Might even drive and see if there is any bump steer. Every Jeep is different, in theory, they are supposed to be parallel, but in practice lifts under 6" don't cause severe handling problems.

If you do develop bump steer, then your choices would be to:

- Design and beef up a trackbar drop bracket; or
- Try a drop pitman arm (generally cause more headaches in smaller lifts, but you being on the upper limit should be okay).

I'll post a few photos later in the day, I have to go a meeting about beach use.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby xj » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:04 pm

i think in the meantime, rather than dithering about too much, ill find a replacement eye for the rod that broke, put it back as it was (so its driveable) and look at the options/get some expert advise, before deciding what to do. Cant justify $300+ to the wife for a trackbar at the moment (not when theres a new bethroom shes waiting patiently for) and although im of the mind to weld as much stuff together as possible, welding is a pretty final option... once its welded theres not much going back.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby TJ » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:52 pm

What if you use something like this at the frame end to replace the tie rod end that is there currently.

Image

This would be sort of like this:

Image

Don't look at that drop bracket, its not a drop bracket but how XJs are normally (theres an idea for you for the drop bracket).

And at the axle on the track bar, you can replace it something like this:

Image

The tube in between would be your stock track bar with new ends (which are now adjustable - thus adjustable length).

Just throwing an idea.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby TJ » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:55 am

Image

Thats the new track bar drop bracket for TJs from Rubicon Express. I don't know whether this would work with RHD as well. Might want to use it as a "design" guide for your engineer to work off.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby xj » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:20 pm

From what I can gather from some of the sites i looked on they are for the axle side though, not the chassis side.

I've just replaced the rose joint and put everything back as it was for the meantime. Its still not going to stop it happening again given the right (or wrong) circumstances, but at least i'm mobile for the meantime.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby TJ » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:54 pm

xj wrote:From what I can gather from some of the sites i looked on they are for the axle side though, not the chassis side.

I've just replaced the rose joint and put everything back as it was for the meantime. Its still not going to stop it happening again given the right (or wrong) circumstances, but at least i'm mobile for the meantime.


The last one I posted from Rubicon Express is for the frame side, but for a LHD frame (i.e. your bracket would be kind of a mirror image if you were to do it). But it requires you to drill two new holes in the frame (an idea I am not a fan of).

Although what the RE trackbar does is to take the rubber mount to the frame side and take the TRE to the axle side (and replace the TRE with a SuperFlex joint).
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby xj » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:06 pm

update:

Broke another rose joint on the bar which supports the knuckle. This time on the trail, in the middle of nowhere. Someone suggested simply drilling another hole approx 1 inch to the right of the one currently holding the track bar/pannard on the axle end.
worked on his 4.5 inch lifted TJ..... darned well worked on mine too. Drives like a dream and now no stress about the darned thing breaking again.....

Problem solved. Sometimes its strangley too easy to overthink things, when the answers are so very simple.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby TJ » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:13 pm

Good to hear that. Is there enough space there to drill a hole. Never paid attention to that area as mine is not lifted as high (yet).
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby xj » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:17 pm

TJ wrote: Is there enough space there to drill a hole.
Must be, did it there and then.
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Re: Front Trackbar (to adjust[able] or not?)

Postby TJ » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:22 pm

xj wrote:
TJ wrote: Is there enough space there to drill a hole.
Must be, did it there and then.


I wasn't doubting you, just will have to have a better look during the day tomorrow. Something to keep in mind when I change my lift. I absolutely hate the OME springs now, they are sagging more quickly than an old lady's *!&@*&^@(
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