Dammit - whats the final call on lockers?

[Jeeper]

I know there is a shitload of reading material on lockers here and online and Ive been through many threads so please don't flame me or give me the standard "google it" answer if you cant share your locker experience.

Ive been reading and reading and reading about lockers trying to decide on the lunchbox vs selectable options and there are so many different opinions. Has anyone run both or either and can you confirm the following.

Is there any noticeable differences in 2 wheel drive having a lunchbox locker in the front Dana 30 or not? Some say it clicks, some say they cant hear it at all. Some say it spools and grabs in u turns and parking lots - some say it doesn't. In addition some say the lunchbox lockers behave differently under auto and manual trans.

The ONLY time I engage 4WD is when Im off road so theres no way Ill be at speeds higher than about 45kmph on the beach heading up Muriwai. Im running 32's and probably gonna go to 33's when these bite the dust.

Basically a lot of reading has shown some sort of locking upgrade to the front Dana 30 is one of the best bang for buck upgrades and where Ive been getting stuck (see last post about drowning my auto trans) I hopefully now wont.

PS - Re selectable lockers - I know they're the bees knees but F#$@kn 3k installed?

[nzlux]

With manual hubs and selectable 4wd you wont notice a lunchbox front locker when in 2wd as there is nothing turning up there.
I have lunchbox lockers front and rear, I notice the rear when in 2wd, but it is not bad.
I have noticed the front locker in 4wd, especially when there is good traction, ie gravel track, hard ground, it makes the steering wheel firmer, ie wants to go in a straight line, but once again it is not that bad.

[yeti]

ah yes the dana 30 ....




im running the ox locker , love it , simple like me , cable select........am running chrome molly axles as well ....just gotta truss the diff housing up at some stage ....you need to find a dead jk and pinch both the 44s factory locked already

have a look in here that's where I got mine from ...jeffs a good dude and will help ya out ..email the man....

http://www.rockridge4wd.com/category-s/ ... %20lockers

[yeti]

opps has more than just the ox locker in there

[Jeeper]

I heard those OX lockers can be a PITA getting them into and out of lock?

Also do you mean the JK Rubi front D44 will transverse to the TJ?

[Jeeper]

Actually reading the main OX page " THE INTEGRATED AIR SHIFT SYSTEM IS THE MOST RELIABLE SELECTABLE LOCKER SYSTEM ON THE MARKET. THERE IS NO CABLE TO STRETCH, RUST OR BECOME OUT OF ADJUSTMENT "

Maybe this was the problem for the guy who was calling OX Lockers a PITA.

Did you install yourself?

[yeti]

I heard those OX lockers can be a PITA getting them into and out of lock?

Also do you mean the JK Rubi front D44 will transverse to the TJ?

na still got to do a bit to throw them 44s under the tj ........yeah cable can be a pita but once sorted work a treat ..have a lookee in link other lockers in there mate....

[yeti]

its like most things mate of a mate said blah blah re locker .....no didn't install it ...did have everything out mate set up and I put it all back together..

[xj]

Arb. That is all (had front and rear in one of my xjs and one of my TJs, had lockrite in the zj. Spend the dosh)

[BlakeNZ]

is the Eaton Detroit locking diff( non selectable) an option for you? Much cheaper than switchable ones like ARB and EATON eLocker.
Pretty good reputation quality wise, IMHO.

[Jeeper]

Yeah really both are an option but why spend 3k if im only gonna use it offroad and will want full locked setup when in 4wd.... Most of the time offroad and on sand etc I will want full lock. When I come back to the roads edge ar off the beach Ill switch out of 4wd...

[Still Unbroken]

I'll chuck another option in the ring for ya....
Eaton Truetrac... It is a helical gear type lsd.
I have these in both ends of the Cruiser and love them - light on the steering and seamless operation, there are no cables or switches etc.
They are not a locker but by using a bit of careful left foot braking if you lift a wheel, they will act like one!
Google truetrac dana 30 and have a look at a few jeep forums.

This is just my opinion only - I have had ARB and lockright and prefer these.
Good luck.

[Jeeper]

So after reading the below from Jerry who is a seasoned poster on jeepforum.

I totally remember the day I decided to get rid of my front & rear Truetracs. I was going up Left-Turn Hill at a closed wheeling area called Los Coyotes Indian Reservation. It was a steep hill that a friend had just rolled down backwards in front of me a few minutes earlier. I got near the top with my passenger-side front wheel up in the air, and the rear left tire barely touching the ground, I was nearly teeter-tottering on my LF and RR tires. In 4Lo, I gave it some gas to get up and over and nothing, I wasn't moving. My spotter then told me both of the tires not firmly on the ground were spinning wildly but I was going nowhere. I tried the old push on the brakes technique which wasn't enough either. I had to back down a bit and take a different line so I'd have better traction.

If I had had lockers (or even a single rear locker) that day, there wouldn't have been a problem at all.

Ive decided that truetracs front and rear will do me for the kind of 4x4ing I do which is beach, a bit of light forest and 80% onroad. Both front D30 and rear D44 in an LSD setup would then be a torsen style LSD and a major imporvement on the TJ setup offering me all I believe I need from my Jeep. Im not ever intending to be at 50 degrees, two wheels on contact, teetering on two rocks a million miles from anywhere.

Truetracs or post research equivalent it is....

[imsohi]

Looking at the recent 4x4 action mag Sav does just fine with the LSD in the rear!!!!!!!!!!! Mind you thats in his standard wrangler. As for me ARB tried Tested and proven cant go past them save up and do it properly you will get a deal on front, rear and compressor. my 2c
Cheers Leigh

[yeti]

savs just a freak when wheeling that jeep ,,,,

[imsohi]

haha yea im just jelous i cant catch him

[badnuz]

ask yourself do any comp guys run auto-lockers? nah!

save the pennies, get selectable lockers... your planned 4x4 driving now may change down the track...

auto lockers in the front have their place... ( NOT in the front! ) (ok, im going to get flammed on that lol)

[furnace]

ask yourself do any comp guys run auto-lockers? nah!

save the pennies, get selectable lockers... your planned 4x4 driving now may change down the track...

auto lockers in the front have their place... ( NOT in the front! ) (ok, im going to get flammed on that lol)

Yes but we are'nt all comp guys,iv'e had both over the years,mainly ARB lockers,but at the moment i'm running Lockright in the front of my Wrangler and are very impressed with them hav'nt had a problem with them what so ever also no handling problems at all..would recommend them to anyone plus good value,had mine for about 6 months

[lax2wlg]

theres no way Ill be at speeds higher than about 45kmph

In terms of offroad driving or cross country exploration, 45kph is very fast.

on the beach heading up Muriwai.

This is a scenario where a permanently locked front differential could easily kill you or other people. Predictable 'turn in' may be lost and it will tend to sledge itself sideways rather than follow the path you are telling it to go. With speed this can be magnified to a very scary degree and lead to a complete loss of control.

some sort of locking upgrade to the front Dana 30 is one of the best bang for buck upgrades

Totally, but universal-joint front axles suffer from a trait known as 'wheel hop' where upon breaking traction, the wheel will try to bounce itself violently, progressively as more power is put down. If you have driven an old Series Land Rover you would be familiar w this. Adding a lunchbox permo- locker into this mix is quite a big ask. An ARB on the other hand, by replacing the entire centre, solves the Dana 30s main problem - that it is not a very strong differential to start with.

So with the ARB you are dramatically strengthening the entire unit, giving it lockability, and not upsetting handling characteristics when you're doing 45kph on the beach.

[TJ]

Totally, but universal-joint front axles suffer from a trait known as 'wheel hop' where upon breaking traction, the wheel will try to bounce itself violently, progressively as more power is put down. If you have driven an old Series Land Rover you would be familiar w this. Adding a lunchbox permo- locker into this mix is quite a big ask. An ARB on the other hand, by replacing the entire centre, solves the Dana 30s main problem - that it is not a very strong differential to start with.

So with the ARB you are dramatically strengthening the entire unit, giving it lockability, and not upsetting handling characteristics when you're doing 45kph on the beach.

Either you are confused about how things work or the way you have is confusing everything.

ARB locker only replaces the carrier in the differential, nothing else. U-joint design remains unchanged.

People have been using lunch box lockers in front Dana 30 since CJs and Wranglers have been around. They are no more inherently dangerous than a driver who thinks Jeep is a car and should be driven like one.

ARB is not the only solution, not everyone can justify the need. Let this sport be open to people who can't afford top dollar accessories.

As for U-joint caused wheel hop that gets violently out of control with speed if you don't go with ARB, its the first time I have ever heard of it. Lets stick to facts and physics.

[lax2wlg]

Thankyou sir, I have a full understanding of whats being discussed... Having 4x4ed w plenty of Jeep guys in the US, and wrenched/worked extensively on a YJ, I would say that wheel hop is pretty well recognized. Its just a trait, like axle wrap on a spring over solid axle.

I think you are not following.... I'm not saying an ARB will stop this, or any locker for that matter. Sorry if there was some confusion on that.

What I am saying is a locked front, you are asking the axles to work ALL the time, against the path of least resistance. This places a lot more stress directly on the axles, and more often that not, is what leads to failure. UJ axles can be quite a handful to keep well behaved even when open.

The D30 carrier is known to be 'not the strongest,' hence why many people install ARB or another carrier-replacement locker.

A locked differential is inherently more harsh and WILL affect steering characteristics - that is an empirical fact, like a turbocharged engine produces more heat.

[Jeeper]

I guess I can see the sand / snow comparison - all the wrangler forum guys from the northern states who see snow talk about in the locker being a no go in 4wd on the streets.... From a budget argument moving from locker to selceteable down the line is the way Im heading ..... If it doesnt pan out - Ill learn something.

[BlakeNZ]

Can anyone tell how my 185 series hilux surf will drive if I have a front lsd installed(say an eaton truetrac for example)?
I've read that people say putting a Lokka in the front end makes the steering more heavy whilst in 2wd, unless you unlock your hubs, BUT the Surf doesn't have hubs that i can lock/unlock, so i have no understanding of what the steering will be like whilst in 2WD (most of the time). I am aware the truetrac will drive differently than the Lokka/Lockrite.
I have heard from people that had truetracs front and rear that they drive really well, but I think one had fulltime fourwheeldrive and the other had manual hubs.

[imsohi]

Can anyone tell how my 185 series hilux surf will drive if I have a front lsd installed(say an eaton truetrac for example)?
I've read that people say putting a Lokka in the front end makes the steering more heavy whilst in 2wd, unless you unlock your hubs, BUT the Surf doesn't have hubs that i can lock/unlock, so i have no understanding of what the steering will be like whilst in 2WD (most of the time). I am aware the truetrac will drive differently than the Lokka/Lockrite.
I have heard from people that had truetracs front and rear that they drive really well, but I think one had fulltime fourwheeldrive and the other had manual hubs.

If the 185s are the same as the 130 the diff disengages so on road driving wont be affected lsd in the front does make steering heavier when in 4wd but still well usable and well worth it

[BlakeNZ]

thanks for your reply.

[tweake]

with auto locker or lsd in the front of the surf its recommended that hubs are fitted. the ADD system only disconnects one axle. with open diff the other side free wheels through the diff and prop shaft stays still. however with auto locker or lsd the wheel will push the prop shaft. so theres a bit more drag on that wheel (which might effect steering tho i havn't noticed) and of course wear on propshaft and cv etc on the drivers side.

one of the aussie guys had a early truetrac fitted and apparently worked great. but they still spin a lifted wheel like an open diff.