WOF Change?

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curly12
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby curly12 » Sun May 13, 2012 9:16 pm

Ralfie wrote:
Bulletproof wrote:I don't recall attacking any individuals on the forum here about this issue.

All I want is truth and facts

Cheers Richard


This original topic was about one person failing a WoF due to modifications and you have turned it into an attack on an organisation and the people in it.

You come across as very anti to the NZFWDA and the people trying to make a difference and no matter what is said you find exception.

You have had the facts put in front of you but you have chosen to ignore them.

Instead your constant bickering and hounding is seen as attacking and its time for you to go find some other bone to chew on.

I for one have had enough and I very much doubt you will get any further with your current attitude.


With all due respect Ralfie, richard has a point and I support him 100 %. I guess there is some background info that you are unaware of
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby J_Dub » Sun May 13, 2012 10:07 pm

Not worth losing sleep over.
If i choose to spends thousands modding a truck to use for recreational use, then $40 for a card is nothing...

But on another note, all the mods ive done over the years on various vehicles, ive never bothered gettng a cert and ive always got a wof and never been hassled by the cops.. The right mannerism when required goes a long way :wink:

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby turoa » Tue May 15, 2012 8:44 am

Quick question, will having a 4wd authority card permit me to have a full 6 point cage in my truck?

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby monstr » Tue May 15, 2012 1:28 pm

turoa wrote:Quick question, will having a 4wd authority card permit me to have a full 6 point cage in my truck?


If your talking about an internal cage from what i understand it will still need to be certified and up to WOF standard .From what i have read the Authority card will not exempt you when it comes to modifying your truck ,If under current regulations your present mods need to be certified then they will still need to be certified the only change will be the Authority card will allow you to raise the bar so to speak as far as lift and tyre size goes but will still need to be certified .So in essence if your truck is not fully road legal now ,by obtaining an authority card wont change it .

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby badnuz » Tue May 15, 2012 1:47 pm

how many of us arguing the point in this thread actually have over 100mm lift in their road reg 4x4s :?: :shock:
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turoa
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby turoa » Tue May 15, 2012 2:20 pm

monstr wrote:
turoa wrote:Quick question, will having a 4wd authority card permit me to have a full 6 point cage in my truck?


If your talking about an internal cage from what i understand it will still need to be certified and up to WOF standard .From what i have read the Authority card will not exempt you when it comes to modifying your truck ,If under current regulations your present mods need to be certified then they will still need to be certified the only change will be the Authority card will allow you to raise the bar so to speak as far as lift and tyre size goes but will still need to be certified .So in essence if your truck is not fully road legal now ,by obtaining an authority card wont change it .


Yep talking about an internal. Its my understanding that to have a full internal currently then you have to have a motosport nz authority card. Don't quote me on my info hence the question 8)

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby PeterVahry » Tue May 15, 2012 3:05 pm

4WD vehicles can be fitted with internal roll cages as long as they do not intrude into critical space as described in the NZ Hobbycar Manual.

This was something argued several years ago by the NZFWDA TRP and accepted by the transport authority.

No authority card is needed.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby PeterVahry » Tue May 15, 2012 4:16 pm

Hard Yaka
I have found this document written by Peter Vahry in April 2003 and it is quite clear where the idea came from.


In 2003 the NZFWDA technical review panel were working up to two nights a month reviewing and ensuring that document that became the NZ Hobby Car Manual, was being inclusive of requirements for 4x4 vehicles. Every sentence and chapter were read and implications to our vehicles were considered. I also attended monthly meetings of the LVVTA TAC to put the 4x4 points of view.

Among the many aspects of building and modifying a 4x4 are considerations around the stability and height. The work being done on the Hobby car manual made the TRP acutely aware of the risk of NZ regulators slapping at any time, a limit on lifting vehicles.

To cover that risk, the TRP did wide research on worldwide regulations around vehicle heights, I recall the file of paperwork being almost 2" thick.
We came up with a proposal that was raised with LVVTA at the time for 'proof of concept' oversight, but was then put aside as a 'readymade' answer, if the NZFWDA were hit by a government proposal to limit lifts.

Many years later, that became a reality and the original proposal was put forward in response. That original was not fully accepted, but the fact that we had already recognised the issue and considered solutions, tempered the debate and rather than a government edict, the NZFWDA were able to work on changes to that original lift proposal to find a way to get the NZTA acceptance. Thus the authority card system.

There are some very well executed lifts to 4x4's but unfortunately a large proportion of badly done projects that the NZTA consider an unacceptable risk to other road users.

The NZFWDA did not incite the NZTA plan to regulate lifts, but always anticipated the possibility, since it occurs in many other countries. There are NZTA staff who regularly attend meetings with their equivalents in Australia and many NZ four wheelers will be aware of moves over recent years in NSW and elsewhere, to restrict 4x4 lifts.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby coxsy » Tue May 15, 2012 5:15 pm

thank you peter :D
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby tallsam66 » Tue May 15, 2012 5:23 pm

If a lift is badly done it dont get a cert plate ...simple as that ...its not on the road legally ...no need for a useless & costly piece of paper in ya pocket.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby Bulletproof » Tue May 15, 2012 6:10 pm

PeterVahry wrote:There are some very well executed lifts to 4x4's but unfortunately a large proportion of badly done projects that the NZTA consider an unacceptable risk to other road users.



This has been my argument all along after seeing unroad worthy trucks with certs on the road.

How do they get through the system ?

Is it because they are bribing the certifier.

Are they mates of the certifier ?

An Authority Card is not going to fix this situation

Cheers Richard
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby tallsam66 » Tue May 15, 2012 6:27 pm

Bulletproof wrote:
PeterVahry wrote:There are some very well executed lifts to 4x4's but unfortunately a large proportion of badly done projects that the NZTA consider an unacceptable risk to other road users.



This has been my argument all along after seeing unroad worthy trucks with certs on the road.

How do they get through the system ?

Is it because they are bribing the certifier.

Are they mates of the certifier ?

An Authority Card is not going to fix this situation

Cheers Richard


Exactly right ..not sure about the bribes tho ...most likely are being changed after it was certed.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby PeterVahry » Tue May 15, 2012 7:47 pm

Certainly the authority card system will not eliminate all the risky 4x4's, just as the speed limit does not prevent some people ignoring it.

Those who chose to take the steps to obtain a card will have the ability to go beyond the eventual lift height set for 'the average joe'. That's called a membership 'benefit' of the NZFWDA in exactly the same way as Motorsport NZ and Hot Rod NZ apply their authority cards.
Some people may not agree with joining the NZFWDA for its 'politics' or other reasons but there is no obligation to be 'active' which is how the vast majority of the members chose to be.

The certification system involves humans and there are variations in decisions made about some modifications. There is a system to follow but some flexibility in interpretation that might allow some modifications to 'get through'. Overall it's a pretty good system that's unique in the world, allowing New Zealanders to create some interesting road going vehicles.
There is also as pointed out already, the ability to change a vehicle after it's got a cert plate, or a WoF and make it essentially unsafe.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby tallsam66 » Tue May 15, 2012 8:09 pm

Peter what are the proposed limits going to be & when does the consultation phase of this proposed change start ??

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby Bulletproof » Tue May 15, 2012 8:56 pm

For ones who have never been a passenger on a Certification Road test, the test is pretty good and would soon show up an unstable truck.

The Certifier at 100 kph does a stability test by turning left and right quite violently.

He then does a brake test which involves going up to 100 and back to Zero 3 times in under 2 minutes and within that time writing down the results to see if there is brake fade. It also shows whether the truck maintains control in a straight line.

The figures on the test are written on the form to LVVTA.

Any vehicle regardless of height that passes these test I believe is roadworthy.


"(a) modified production low volume vehicles which have
attained an increase in engine power output from the
original vehicle manufacturer’s specifications of between
20% and 50%, or have any modifications to the service
brake system, or have any modifications which result in a
change in or relocation of weight or centre of gravity, must
achieve:
(i) 3 consecutive cycles from 100 kph to standstill
each at an average deceleration of not less than
0.65G; and
(ii) within a total time of 2 minutes from the start of
the first cycle to the completion of the third cycle;"




Regarding a WOF because mine is really modified there is no room on the plate to include all the mods so they told me to tell the WOF man to ring LVVTA if they want all the mods that have been certified. But they never have done.

After spending $1200 and having 3 Certifications done I am learning quite quick now what is involved

Cheers Richard
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby evyauto » Tue May 15, 2012 9:10 pm

Bulletproof wrote:Regarding a WOF because mine is really modified there is no room on the plate to include all the mods so they told me to tell the WOF man to ring LVVTA if they want all the mods that have been certified. But they never have done.

Cheers Richard


I have a copy of cert paperwork laminated in the glovebox for such reasons. they are now (dont know how long it has been) taking photos of the vehicle on the day of cert for future reference if things have been changed from cert date.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby PeterVahry » Tue May 15, 2012 11:04 pm

Peter what are the proposed limits going to be & when does the consultation phase of this proposed change start ??


The proposed limit is still being defined. The decision on consultation is that of the LVVTA who manage the certification process for NZTA. LVVTA have been consulting with the NZFWDA as the national 4WD organisation. I doubt that they would open it to the public, given the resources that would be needed for the process.

Let me assure you though, that there have been many, many hours of meetings involving a wide range of 4x4 enthusiasts around NZ over several years now, considering a huge array of options to address the desire of NZTA to limit vehicle lifts. NZTA have the ability to impose a set limit, but recognise the NZFWDA interest.

The NZFWDA have their annual conference this weekend and no doubt the 'lifting rules' will be a topic again. I'm not going to be there this year so will leave others to report on that meeting in Dunedin.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby tallsam66 » Wed May 16, 2012 6:44 am

PeterVahry wrote:
Peter what are the proposed limits going to be & when does the consultation phase of this proposed change start ??


The proposed limit is still being defined. The decision on consultation is that of the LVVTA who manage the certification process for NZTA. LVVTA have been consulting with the NZFWDA as the national 4WD organisation. I doubt that they would open it to the public, given the resources that would be needed for the process.

Let me assure you though, that there have been many, many hours of meetings involving a wide range of 4x4 enthusiasts around NZ over several years now, considering a huge array of options to address the desire of NZTA to limit vehicle lifts. NZTA have the ability to impose a set limit, but recognise the NZFWDA interest.

The NZFWDA have their annual conference this weekend and no doubt the 'lifting rules' will be a topic again. I'm not going to be there this year so will leave others to report on that meeting in Dunedin.


Its a requirement of the code that the LVVTA consult with "members of the public" ..see 1.3 (1).

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby DA RAM » Wed May 16, 2012 8:12 am

thought this had died !,its was made public over 10 years ago prob before many of you had 4wds :lol:
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby Twodiffs » Wed May 16, 2012 5:53 pm

Since the NZ4WDA etc are setting up protocols is it too much to ask that they address the cost of re-certifications?

The biggest thing that gripes me is what we all know...cert your truck once and it's $400ish, thats reasonable. BUT lets work towards lowering the fee for subsequent modifications and re-certs!!. You throw a turbo on or dropboxes or whatever...they need to be certed as we know, so set a figure for recerts, it can't be that hard surely?.

For examples sake it might be $125 or $150 for an addition to the original cert plate. Or has this already been talked about?

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby Bulletproof » Wed May 16, 2012 6:04 pm

Taking inflation into account the Certification I had done in March 1998 which wasn't long after LVVTA started certs in 1996 was dearer than 2008.

It was then $350 and the last one I had done in 2008 was $400

I don't know the 2012 cost

Cheers Richard
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby nismo26 » Wed May 16, 2012 6:09 pm

Would be good if there was a basic cert, then a cheaper price for minor add ons or changes.

Got a cert in Dec 2011 and it was $420

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby Twodiffs » Wed May 16, 2012 6:22 pm

nismo26 wrote:Would be good if there was a basic cert, then a cheaper price for minor add ons or changes.

Got a cert in Dec 2011 and it was $420


Exactly what i'm thinking...I reckon if the cost for additional certs was much lower then more people would adhere to them and not 'hide' them.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby DA RAM » Wed May 16, 2012 6:33 pm

i think certs are quite reasonably priced :shock: and if you go to a good certifier (not saying any are not) for even just a addon cert they will check over the vehicle again to make sure nothings a miss 8) its money WELL SPENT ! im surprised certs are not a least double or more :roll:
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby Bulletproof » Wed May 16, 2012 6:40 pm

Twodiffs wrote:
nismo26 wrote:Would be good if there was a basic cert, then a cheaper price for minor add ons or changes.

Got a cert in Dec 2011 and it was $420


Exactly what i'm thinking...I reckon if the cost for additional certs was much lower then more people would adhere to them and not 'hide' them.



I agree completely. I have had 3 certs between 1998 and 2008 and in that time I was continuing to modify the hilux so a lot of the time I was using it illegally on the road because I was not prepared to pay $400 every year for another cert.

I put them off until I considered it was worth while. If I had only had to pay for each mod. I would have had them done more regulary

People have said to me, Why didn't you do everything first and then get it certed. It is not as simple as that because until you start using the truck you don't really know how to improve it more.

cheers Richard
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby nismo26 » Wed May 16, 2012 7:02 pm

DA RAM wrote:i think certs are quite reasonably priced :shock: and if you go to a good certifier (not saying any are not) for even just a addon cert they will check over the vehicle again to make sure nothings a miss 8) its money WELL SPENT ! im surprised certs are not a least double or more :roll:


I agree $420 is pretty good if you are getting the whole truck checked over after doing a bunch of mods, but for doing a minor mod it is a bit excessive if you have to pay $420 every time.

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Re: WOF Change?

Postby rangimotors » Wed May 16, 2012 7:08 pm

never be a cheaper price for another cert as to many people change the truck between certs. You have to understand that when you get a cert (or a second cert) the certifier is putting his name against a truck that has failed a wof and making it legal. You must understand why even if he has certed it 6 months ago he still wants to (and legally has to) fully check it out to make sure everything complies and is safe to be on the road.
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby DA RAM » Wed May 16, 2012 7:12 pm

plan a head ONLY DO IT ONCE ! :roll: its fairly poor planning if you need to keep going back again and again , i personally dont know anyone who has even been for a re cert on a vehicle ? *do it right first time build it once *
hmmmm i do realise thats not always posible :wink:
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby Bulletproof » Wed May 16, 2012 7:19 pm

Formula 1 cars are modified between each race and it is no different for a 4 wheel drive.

Why didn't they do it right first time ?

The simple truth is that everything can be improved all the time and nothing is perfect and only testing shows up the flaws

And just to answer a previous post I have never had a cert because I have failed a WOF. I wouldn't even try for a WOF if I new it needed a cert.


Cheers Richard
Last edited by Bulletproof on Wed May 16, 2012 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WOF Change?

Postby DA RAM » Wed May 16, 2012 7:25 pm

Bulletproof wrote:Formula 1 cars are modified between each race and it is no different for a 4 wheel drive.

Why didn't they do it right first time ?

Cheers Richard

had done a reply but im not going down this road with you :roll:
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