Newbie with an old surf

[driftinglobo]

Hi Guys,
Just would like to introduce my self. I am new ish to 4 wd ing and to forums as well.
I have a solid front axle surf with a 2L-T engine, which I am fixing up and impooving as time and money allows.
I am looking to fix up / replace the old and tired spings and shockies with a 2 inch / 50mm lifted ones.My question is as my current front leafs are sittin flat how much lift this will actually mean? eg ifthe original sping hight is 50mm + 50mm lift = 100mm gain. I have searched the net to find the original sping hight but no luck.I have 31 muds on at the moment but they rubbing at turns, and wondering with the lift will the 31 s look too small on the truck as i am not planning to go bigger in tyre size just jet.
Is there any NZ 4 wd shop sell complete lift kits? Or just bits separately? Can I ask this here or it is agains forum rules? ( really new to forums)
Second part of my question is do I have to modify/ replace anything else eg any component of stearting or extended brake lines ect with the planed 2 inch lift.

Thanks for all the replys in advance.
Regards
Lobo

[Checkerhead]

Those sorts of questions are exactly what this forum is for. You will get plenty of people who have already done it or researched it who can give you their view on what ever.

I don't know how much travel a brand new original surf spring would allow. Safe to assume (as you have) that new +2" springs will likey give more than 2" on what you currently have. That said, Hilux front springs sit pretty flat anyway.

There certainly are places that sell complete kits, my personal opinion is that you will usually get better value by carefully selecting individual components. I had some OME (old man emu) Sport shocks in my hilux that I quite liked. I also had some standard OME shocks in the front of it when it was leaf sprung that I quite liked.

Where do your 31's rub? At the rear of the guards / on the firewall? I had 33's and and 2" lift leaf springs. Only rubbed when turning while articulating, so i should think you would get 31's in with no rubbing.

Not sure how helpful that is.

Good luck.

[nzlux]

My hilux had standard springs, very flat looking, 31s would rub on the drivers firewall at full lock, turning right.

I put a 2 inch lift in, 31s will just touch at full articulation, but that could be my hilux as when I had my last wheel alignment done I found out my drivers front wheel is 5mm further back than the passenger front.

A mcc bullbar did not line up exactly with the drivers side chassis rail.... after 26 years the chassis is slightly bent, possibly as there was only one recovery hook, on the drivers side, I now have two rated recovery hooks and a synthetic equalising strap.

[mudsurfv6]

surf I had had 2" body lift and 35s and extended brake hoses. took to the seam behind the wheels with a big hammer. still rubbed there a bit but worst was the steering, rubbed on springs. I had really long shackles until the rules changed and they could only be 150mm long (centre to centre). by then the front springs had turned inside out so put 150mm shackles on and 2" lifted maxtrax? springs. big mistake. (some breeds of spring might be better). the flatter they are the better the ride. even taking a couple of leaves out and running tyres 8psi front & 5psi rear it was still like sitting on a brick.

[driftinglobo]

Hi,
Thanks for the replys, my tyres are rubbing at turning, left turn is wost than right, and down hill left turn is very noisy. They rub at the rear inside of the guards. and the front springs are sitting a bit past flat. The truck is also suffering from a saggy arse syndrome which I hope is also be cured by the new set of springs.
I havent figured out how to post quotes so :

To mudsurf6: thanks I have been told allready that flat springs are better for a ride quality, but then how alse to fix the rubbing issue? and why was a misstake to "fit 2" lifted maxtrax? springs."

To Checkerhead: did you had a body lift as well or just a suspension lift? how did you find the truck with the 2 inch lift? and did you ever wished you put in a bigger lift? and your build looks awesome.

Thanks guys

Lobo

[mudsurfv6]

and why was a misstake to "fit 2" lifted maxtrax? springs."

lifted springs have more of a bend, so further from flat. maxtrax were the cheapest I could find at the time, more expensive ones might give a better ride.

if I was to use leaves again I would modify/drop the mounts on the chassis so I could use flat springs but would also get the lift to clear bigger wheels.

but then how alse to fix the rubbing issue

took to the seam behind the wheels with a big hammer

is that where they are rubbing?

mine was worse turning right.

i am not planning to go bigger in tyre size just jet.

depending on how far you want to go in the future, if you are thinking about bigger wheels and more mods at some stage you could think about putting rear springs in the front which moves the front diff forwards a few inches. (someone else would know how much) you do have to modify a few things a bit but worth keeping in mind.

[driftinglobo]

Hi mudsurfv6
Since I joined the forum I have found heaps of mods I like to do in the future but my financal advisor have capped my budget at the moment.

Would you recomend extended shacles ( 130 mm centers ) insted of new lifted springs? As a solution for a few years?
How much lift shackels give?
RUF mod sounds good but if I read it correctly most people are happyer with coils than leafs.In the future I would love to build a truck like "bulletproof"s Hilux.
So an axle swap with coil sping set up may be on the cards later, but that is opening up an other big can of worms.
So at the moment just would like to fix the rubbing so as I see it I have 3 option:
1, new lifted springs and shokies to suit
2, extended shacles. with maybe new shokies?
3, drop the tyre size to 30 MT s. but I would like to keep it on 31 s.
Than revisit the issue in 3-4 years preferably droping a 5L engine in............

Really appriciate your input and advice.
Regards
Lobo

[mudsurfv6]

there will be other people with other ideas too, probably better ideas.

but I would say if you were thinking about changing to coils and engine swap in a few years then only do minimal modifications now and get some 4wding under your belt. then

revisit the issue in 3-4 years

and look at swapping vehicle to a prado which has coils and better engine, or a surf that has the coils in the rear & put prado diff on coils in front.......... (what I'm going through)

have you bent the seam over where the tyre is rubbing?

How much lift shackels give?

extended shackles will give you a lift of half of the extra extension. if your shackles are 2" longer then the centre of the spring where diff is will only lift 1". because the other end hasn't been lifted.
but yeah I would do that for now, would pay to put in longer shocks so they don't reach their max extension, leave the 31s on, smack the seam/join in behind the wheels.

a 1" or 2" body lift is an easier/cheaper way to get the body away from the wheels, and doesn't lift the centre of gravity as much as a similar height suspension lift.

what offset are your rims?

andrew

[driftinglobo]

Hi andrew

Thanks for your advice, I really like your idea of the extended shackes and shokies.And if still needed a 25mm body lift.

Sorry to still bug you with questions, this is my last set, for regarding leaf spings at least.

Could you please tell me what do you mean by: "the front springs had turned inside out"
Is that mean they had a negative arch? The reasion I am askin as my right spring is curving down from the axle back, front of the axle it is flat. It looks weird, as my left is sitting just flat. There is only 10mm height difference in the lefr and right side measured between the top of the rim and bottom of the guard when the truck is sitting on flat surface. But the rear end of the right spring is 30mm closer to ground then the left.It is also have ~15 mm less between the axle and the bum stop (30mm) while the left has 45mm. Basically what Iam trying to figure out will it be ok for a while or it needs replaceing before it breaks. Have you ever hear that anybody breaking a leaf spring?
On a hilux/surf.

Could you please tell me where did you buy your 150mm shackles or did you make them?
As I could only find 130mm long ones.

If a shockie is suited for a 50mm suspension lift would that be ok for ~25-30mm lift?

My rims are 15x8 with the standard hilux offset, at least that was i told. I haven't measured them but I think they -19? They have a nice clearance from all moveing bits.

have you bent the seam over where the tyre is rubbing?

Not yet it is on the to do list, but the tyre also rubs on the rear bottom horizontal "lip" of the guard and I dont think I can fold that nice(ish)ly. and on the inside of the arch but a "dent" may reduce that.

Thanks for your time and patience.

Lobo

[mudsurfv6]

Could you please tell me what do you mean by: "the front springs had turned inside out"

meaning the front springs had bent the wrong way, ends where lower than the middle.

Have you ever hear that anybody breaking a leaf spring?On a hilux/surf.

I haven't but I know people who have.

my right spring is curving down from the axle back, front of the axle it is flat. It looks weird, as my left is sitting just flat. There is only 10mm height difference in the lefr and right side measured between the top of the rim and bottom of the guard when the truck is sitting on flat surface. But the rear end of the right spring is 30mm closer to ground then the left.It is also have ~15 mm less between the axle and the bum stop (30mm) while the left has 45mm. Basically what Iam trying to figure out will it be ok for a while or it needs replaceing before it breaks.

I know that there is a drivers side & passengers side spring when you buy a pair because they are different spring rates. but I'm probably not the best person to answer that question. I'm no mechanic. best would be to bring it up under 'toyota' and see who answers.

I made the shackles but you can buy extended ones, not cheap though. overseas?

usually a lifted shock is for standard up to the lifted measurement. eg 'standard to 50mm lift'. so 25-30mm on a 50mm should be fine.

asked about rims because if they had a huge -offset then when turning they get closer to inner guard than a rim with less -offset. but yours sound fine.

andrew

[driftinglobo]

Awsome, thanks for the info, it helped me lot.

[Petemcc]

Yes drivers side has more arch from new. Not uncommon for drivers site to sag more. Get springs reset or better yet get new ones. New springs will not necessarily fix your rubbing. They will make it rub less often as most of the time the wheel will be further from the guard but when you get it on the bump stop it will still rub (provided the springs let it get on the bumps).

Best thing to do on 31s is get new springs because it will give you more clearance and will ride better. Get 50mm longer shocks so that you can get a little more flex. Fold the seam back (or grind it) and then fold the bottom of the guard up to hug the firewall rather than stick out.

Cheers,
Pete

[driftinglobo]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the great replys.
I think I have missed the point of the " new members " section.
I am in Dunedin, bought my pride and joy a 1srt gen, solid front, Surf about a year ago.From an older gentleman.Since then I am slowly catching up with the maintanence and replacing the bits I manage to break on it.So far I have: replaced the filters, the heater core, took about 2 weeks but I have managed not to break anything .Fixed some of the desh wireing, the tailgte window and lock. Put on recovery poits, replaced the leaking front axle seals ant new wheel bearing,stearing dempenre, nwe timeing belt, valve clearance, snorkel,extended diff breaders, new diff oil. It is a slow process as I am also trying to get out as much as possible.
That it for now. I will ask my next questions in the toyota section.

Regards