HVLP air spray guns and paint

[Heath]

Okay next step (well soonish) is getting something over the steel and bog. Underside will just be sound deadener/protection (will sort this weekend I think), but with the primer coming close to being required (and top coat later) it is time to start thinking about the gun I use to lay these products down.

Is it worth buying two guns (one with 1.4mm and one with 1.8-2mm) or just get one with two nozzle sets?

I'm not aiming for perfection here but as close as a DIYer can get will be fine, so a $500 sprayer probably isnt for me. And as much as it pains me to say it maybe the really cheap ones might be just a little to "cheap and nasty" to get some longevity out of them.

My compressor is good but not huge so a gun needing lots of CFM isnt in the mix either. My comp is about 11CFM, but if I could find a sprayer in the 8-10cfm range it would be great.

Im looking to use epoxy primer to seal things up after a quick coat of filler primer (and a pile of sanding and more filler I'm guessing - LOL) and finally something in the 2k range of top coats. That means when the time comes to lay the nice glossy deep black on (and some HOK candies ) I have a good solid and stable base to work with.

So any suggestions on where to shop in Chch and what to look at?

And also as important what not to buy.

Anyone with personal experience with good and bad stuff please feel free to lay it out here, or PM me if you wish to keep comments private (maybe the shop is reputable but sold you shit and you dont want to get done for slander )

Cheers guys.

[slidenyo]

I have used a fair few from wagner home diy units through to sata guns for cars,
big things to remember compressing air causes heat, which is good but decompressing air causes cooling .
In saying that the $800 sata on a watertrapped compressor only just put on a better finish than the blower driven wagner unit of half the cost.

If you're happy with a diy finish get a blower driven unit and use that,
I would always leave ours on for ten minutes to warm up and rest the paint in a bucket of hot water before mixing .

If you want a pro finish with a compressor on hvlp you will have to shell out for a rich mans gun, a good water trap and good quality paint and thinners. otherwise it'll be time to peel an orange

[smurf182]

If you're happy with a diy finish get a blower driven unit and use that,
I would always leave ours on for ten minutes to warm up and rest the paint in a bucket of hot water before mixing .

If you want a pro finish with a compressor on hvlp you will have to shell out for a rich mans gun, a good water trap and good quality paint and thinners. otherwise it'll be time to peel an orange

I never knew you could use on of those blower spray guns for cars, I thought painting a fence was all they are good for.

No doubt the more you spend on the gun the better finish you may achieve, but of all the problems I had when painting with my cheap guns, the quality of the gun was not one of them.

The biggest issue was dust, dirt and insects which are hard to completely eliminate in your garage. A close second was water, I had an cheap water trap at the compressor, you really need a good unit as close to the gun as possible as water condenses in the air line. Third was my technique, including that gut wrenching moment when you drag the air hose over a wet panel.

A note on orange peel - this is caused by the paint being laid on too thin so it doesn't self level. It is a technique problem not a gun problem (well, unless your air pressure is too low and the paint isn't atomizing correctly). If you look closely at many brand new cars you will notice a slight orange peel. Personally a slight orange peel doesn't worry me because it is much less noticeable than a run or sag which is the opposite problem - paint laid on too thick.

Looking forward to seeing your FJRod all painted up.. this is definitely the exciting stage of the project, even after a coat of primer it's hard to wipe the smile off your face.

I am by no means an expert just passing on the results of my research and experience. I have every possible type of paint problem on my Cruiser so I've learnt a bit!

[De-Ranged]

Thought "orange peel" was because its too cold, was a common problem in southland.... one of the answers was winter thinners or hardner (can't remember its been a while lol) anyway all we used to do was add more thinner and run lighter coats
trust me it wasn't because it was too thin lol getting sag's in the paint that is forming an orange peel.... the only option is to wipe it off and dress it back again, got told it can cause "crazy cracking" in the next layers if you paint over it

funny how the term means different things.... never heard it for light paint but then again that was something we never did lol

Another one to watch out for is "dog boning" where at the end of your stroke you spray heavier, I used to turn the gun away from the pannel so I was spraying into space then as I start back turn the gun back in at right angles to the pannel when my arm was at a point I could keep it parallel
Used to get laughed at for it but it works lol

[wjw]

Another one to watch out for is "dog boning" where at the end of your stroke you spray heavier, I used to turn the gun away from the pannel so I was spraying into space then as I start back turn the gun back in at right angles to the pannel when my arm was at a point I could keep it parallel
Used to get laughed at for it but it works lol

I always struggled to force myself to overspray too.

[slidenyo]

I've also used our airless for a fair few more industrial jobs,
does the job just ain't show room quality

[glued]

orange peel is from too much or not enough pressure,too larger nozzle or paint too thick,or holding the gun to far away from panel,or strokes are too fast,alot of variables for peel. (27yrs in the game).
you can lay it on thickish with fast thinners in good weather and it should be fine...4to1 as opposed to 2to1 2k.Too much hardener can cause the top coat to pull the basecoat apart cause of the hardener ratio,goes off at different rates
Preheat panel with a heat gun if its below 15deg,again fast vapping thinners is good when its cold.
Usually crazy cracking is from using a 1k clear with 2k paint or vice versa...or from clear been layed on too thick too fast

[Heath]

Chatting to paint supplier and mentioned what I was doing and what I wanted to achieve. He suggested doing the primers and fillers as I planned but maybe go with a lacquer top coat instead of the 2k stuff as I didnt have breathing gear suited for 2k solvents (forced air - I have a full face mask with activated charcoal). As my garage is attached to the house, he suggested the stink / gases might travel through the place and with it being cooler I am less likely to have doors open (moisture in air and longer drying times - he did suggest using some additives to sort the temp issue are available though). The chemicals gassing off are toxic and with my nephew/nieces/wife and inlaws around a lot I would prefer to keep things a bit safer for them (and me).

If I can get a nice finish with the lacquer I can always get a 2k top and clear blown on later in a shop. Been thinking with the time it will take to get the front done and then modify/fabricate a stepside bed this might be a better option. Candies and tops can come when it is all done (after I have had some practice ). Still might have a go at a simple flame job in lacquer though...

On the subject of guns I still have to decide if I want a reasonable (and cheap) gun for the primer/filler application (1.8-2mm) and a nicer 1.4 gun for top coat or buy a good gun with two sets of apertures.


Funny how everyone you speak to has a different slant on how to do stuff. Some say epoxy seal then bog and fill before priming again for top. Others suggest doing bog and fillers before laying on a epoxy primer and then top coats. Taught different ways I guess - neither is wrong just what people are comfortable with.

[Heath]

Just looked up urethane paint hazards.

Fark that. I'd rather use house paint and a roller than that.

Definately not using that shit at home - I'll pay someone with the right gear when the time comes to do it for me.

Maybe 1k base coat and clear coat is the way to go.

[trucked]

Chatting to paint supplier and mentioned what I was doing and what I wanted to achieve. He suggested doing the primers and fillers as I planned but maybe go with a lacquer top coat instead of the 2k stuff as I didnt have breathing gear suited for 2k solvents (forced air - I have a full face mask with activated charcoal). As my garage is attached to the house, he suggested the stink / gases might travel through the place and with it being cooler I am less likely to have doors open (moisture in air and longer drying times - he did suggest using some additives to sort the temp issue are available though). The chemicals gassing off are toxic and with my nephew/nieces/wife and inlaws around a lot I would prefer to keep things a bit safer for them (and me).

I cant help with your paint choice but can only warn you about 2k paints, they can be very dangerous isocyonate can have a terrible effect on your health mainly the lungs. Fresh air supply mask for yourself and keep it away from any others

2k is nicer as it has more chemical resistance and a harder finish and you dont need to buff it to get the shiny finish like 1k gloss but it is pretty bad for your health. Google should explain why. Some people have horrendous side effects others get away with it.

[derk]

aren't those rat rods sposed to be all old and rusty looking

[Heath]

aren't those rat rods sposed to be all old and rusty looking

I was struggling for a classification for my project when I started. Hot rod doesnt fit (although I have and will use hotrod techniques in the build), rat rod isnt quite right either (it will be running around looking a bit shitty for a while I guess) and custom car just seems wrong, although it is possibly a more accurate description. I probably wont be invited to join any clubs either when I am finished because of the rules they have. A custom car club might let me sneak in but only if I park in the back. Lots of rules about car origins (must be US or British or Aussie) for most clubs and almost all of them state clearly no jap crap. Which is funny because most of them will be running jap components (or chinese/taiwanese/india). The only jap part of mine is the body (and maybe the seats...) the rest is US and Aussie (and some mexico - chevy engine, with some Taiwanese body trim).

[Heath]

Anyone used an iso free 2k paint or primer?

I see they are available but cant find any info on how good they are or if they are something a DIYer can use.

[Xr246]

Im 3/4 of the way thru painting my FJ40 using 2k paint and they guys at the paint shop never mentioned anything to me about health risks or needed to wear a forced fed mask

[juz]

Im sure theres a spraystore in chch talk to them or RJ Patersons, I buy all my paint n panel supplies thru RJs. Best and easiest would be epoxy the bare steel, bog whatever needs bogged then epoxy again, block back and paint. Its what I do and what all other guys not on an unlimited budget do. When it comes to painting, prep it and hitup either and industrial spray shop or a carpainter to spray it as a perk. Itll save you headaches trying to heat up your garage and getting rid of fumes etc. saying that I still 2k prime at home. Airfed mask is best but a normal 3m/norton respirator will do fine for your one vehicle, as for spray guns dont buy the cheapest you can find, and you wont need a devilbiss etc. the cheap 2mm ones wont even spray primer, trust me I know. Ask at a shop like above and they should see you right. Even lend you one if you ask nicely.

[Heath]

Had a chat to a dude in the spray store on St Asaph St and they have a gun there that will do me. Comes with 1.8 and 1.4 size jets for a good price ($143 - good starting point for me). Had a chat about iso free 2k primer/paint and their advice was if I wanted to use iso free primer/paint then lacquer would be their suggestion. They havent used any iso free 2k paint so couldnt give any real world advice on it.

Might sneak an epoxy sealer in there if I can.

RJ's suggested lacquer too.

[juz]

Laquer just isnt as durable, takes alot more coats etc.
Personally Id use 2k or base coat clear coat, especially if your wanting to keep the truck. Laquer is f all easier to spray then 2k, in fact Id say modern 2k is easiest, sets up quick and if you fuk up next day you can block it back and redo. But ultimately up to you, spray gun sounds the goods. Just make sure you clean it out properly after each use.

[Heath]

Well did a little sanding and bog work today. While blowing the dust around the garage I noticed a slight vapour coming out of the tip. Checked the little water trap/reg on the compressor and it has signs of water in it. Some days there is a little water visible and others nothing so I wasn't too worried but better to be safe think.

So I am now looking for a wall mounted water/oil trap for my system. Will get a second length of airline I will run between my compressor and the second water/oil trap (drop it in coils into a bucket of cold water to get the water condensing - or something like that) and run a filter (and regulator) at the spray gun end.

Of course now my recently bought air hose is contaminated with water and what ever, so maybe I should run the new hose from the new wall mounted trap.

[derk]

are you draining the tank between use, before you use it start it up with the tank bung undone and it'll pump all the rusty water out before you use it

[Heath]

Not every time , every second at least. I'll put it on my list of startup/shut down proceedures.

[Heath]

Hopefully this will sort my water issues (have some disposable filters that go at the gun end too)



Now I have to work out MPA kg/cm2 and PSI conversions A sticker above the reg will sort that for later on.

[Heath]

Been saving for the gun to put the final touches to my ride but knowing it is a life long investment I dont want to buy junk.

Budget is around $300 (yeah I know not enough for a really good new one in NZ - Ebay or amazon may help here if I have too) and I'm open to second hand units that arent flogged out.

What brands should I be looking at? Any brands I should avoid?

Are the disposable cup systems worth the price? Are there spares available for the less expensive units or is it a case of use it until it dies and biff it away.

Am I deluding myself and I should just buy a super cheap junker and be done with it?

Cheers.

Looking at something like this.
DeVILBISS FinishLine 4 HVLP Spray Gun with 1.3 mm, 1.5 mm and 1.8mm Tips, DeKUPS Starter Kit with 24 oz. Cups, and a Air Valve Regulator with Gauge

[juz]

Youll find most good painters stick with one brand etc, I have 3x Iwatas, think they were around $600-700 maybe cheaper now days, devilbiss and sata also good guns. I could probably lend you a Iwata W400, good for base coat and 2k. I dont use them much anymore.

[Heath]

Youll find most good painters stick with one brand etc, I have 3x Iwatas, think they were around $600-700 maybe cheaper now days, devilbiss and sata also good guns. I could probably lend you a Iwata W400, good for base coat and 2k. I dont use them much anymore.

Thats really generous Juz, but I'll decline.

I prefer not to be a borrower of gear that expensive. I figure if I buy a good one then I'll have it (them) for life at the rate I'll use them.

Those Iwatas have eyewatering prices for sure, sata are up there too (as is devilbliss) for the top of the line stuff which is above my needs for sure.

Might let uncle google scare me for a while with reviews etc and then disregard all the good input when I buy something way too good for my needs - LOL

[spanky]

as long as you have clean dry air and all your primer/paint is put through a filter you will have no trouble with a $150 gun,i can get just as good finish off a cheap gun as i do off my devilbiss that ive had for 20+ years, the main thing with the dearer ones is they are designed to be used everyday for a long time and they are way more serviceable than the cheap ones,unless you are going to paint 10 or more cars a year id just get a cheapy, whatever you get make sure you clean it thoroughly every time you use it, the main concern for me is that any 2 pot you use is like spraying airborne cyanide and spraying in a domestic environment is not ideal. in saying that a clean shed were you can wet the floor to stop dust will work , but you still need a top quality respirator suitable for spraying organic poisons,when i started painting there were no paint booths except for in the car factory's and we still did super high end paint jobs.just remember its poison.

[Heath]

Cheers for reminder about isocyanates.

I wont be using them even if it mean compromising on the quality finish but its just not worth the risk or cost (to be safe would be more than the cost of the paint).

So one pot paints with additives if needed for me (not sure if acrylic enamels or lacquers yet).

[Heath]

So I found a few options which look brilliant price wise in the US but when I sort postage etc they go from a good price to outrageous. In one case the postage is 300 and the bits are only 200. which triggers the GST level and puts the landed price even higher. Im trying to keep things under $400, but the bloody dollar tanking hasnt helped - LOL - should have bought earlier.

If I am to grab bits from offshore I need to find an alternative to their crazy international postage costs.

Anyone use nzpost service (youpost?)? How did you find it price wise?

[wjw]

can you get what you want in aussie? how big?

[4wdstuff]

Hi Heath,
How soon do you want the stuff.
Cheers
Tim

[Heath]

Wow!! the nz post set up is good value compared to US shipping.

Shipping is down to 45NZ from 180NZ. This puts everything under the $400 threshold. Hmmmm......