why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

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catalystracing
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby catalystracing » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:08 pm

zed wrote:x3

Oh and the winner in the modified class is...


So this is IFAS, Independent Fricken Awesome Suspension :mrgreen: :lol: 8)

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby keithal » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:12 pm

ToyZuki wrote:Was this thread started following my "How much is this Hilux worth" thread :D

Pictures speak a thousand words.

Image

Image

I wouldnt say one is better than the other. I just think they are better for different applications, like racers use IFS in machines worth 10s of thousands. I wldnt say you can only go extreme with solid. As the pics above show, the IFS does have its advantages.

I find it funny when people say oh you have IFS with leaf springs, thats the worst, my truck is solid front and rear so its obviously better. There are 100 different things to take into account to decide a trucks potential.



Your second image isn't taking the fact that the uphill suspension will unload and potentially flip the truck on its side

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby wsr4x4 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:19 am

Basically IFS sux offroad its weak problematic and dosent flex for shit.

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby stovanovich » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:37 am

wsr4x4 wrote:Basically IFS sux offroad its weak problematic and dosent flex for shit.

Rather than trying to start trouble, why not actually read the rest of this thread, which gives good reasoning for both. Why do you honestly care what someone else is running? It's all in the driver, not the truck and if they're having fun doing it then who really cares.
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby catalystracing » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:34 am

I have followed this thread from the beginning, and want share some advice I got years ago.
As a youngster wanting my first decent stereo system I went bright eyed into a well known store asked for a good stereo.
The guys reply was I could sell you a 5k one that you wouldn't enjoy, you maybe satisfied with a $500 one.
What Im trying to back up here is what others have been saying, whats good for one is not always going to be good for another.
I have had all sorts of combos of IFS/Solid, manual/auto. Ive enjoyed everyone for the benefits each bought to the table.
At the moment I have LN107 Hilux with IFS. It is the best vehicle for my lifestyle and type of off roading I do, would never change it. I won club champs last year and now often first to the top of a climb to winch the others up :mrgreen: lockright helps

Having marshalled Deadwood for 10 years and Kiwi winch challenge for two I have come to the conclusion that the best best piece of kit we can engage is the brain, that alone will determine the outcome.

Cheers Paul.

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby zed » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:47 am

catalystracing wrote:... I have come to the conclusion that the best best piece of kit we can engage is the brain, that alone will determine the outcome.


x2 well said. Often how you drive is more important than what
IFS all the way...go the mark 1 Pajero!

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby rokhound » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:25 pm

zed wrote:
catalystracing wrote:... I have come to the conclusion that the best best piece of kit we can engage is the brain, that alone will determine the outcome.


x2 well said. Often how you drive is more important than what


x3. And that is all you really need to know. Pick what suits you at what ever stage you are at in your 4wding life.
Ugly is a state of mind..... and the state of my truck!

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby nzlux » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:36 pm

catalystracing wrote: :mrgreen: lockright helps
.


I have auto lockers in my beam axle hilux, they make a world of difference to the trucks ability, I use to have an IFS Pajero, wish I had put auto lockers in that.

Rather than have a IFS / Beam axle debate why not have is locked better than open diffs discussion… they we can debate auto vs selectable, then selectable air, electric cable operated…..

I think we can all agree what is best is what gets you out there enjoying yourself, what is better is if it also gets you home :lol:

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby Mr Revhead » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:35 pm

nzlux wrote:
I think we can all agree what is best is what gets you out there enjoying yourself, what is better is if it also gets you home :lol:


The nail has been beaten about the noggin!!

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby wsr4x4 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:36 pm

stovanovich wrote:
wsr4x4 wrote:Basically IFS sux offroad its weak problematic and dosent flex for shit.

Rather than trying to start trouble, why not actually read the rest of this thread, which gives good reasoning for both. Why do you honestly care what someone else is running? It's all in the driver, not the truck and if they're having fun doing it then who really cares.


I have read the thread , he asked a question why is ifs better offroad? .
Its not better off road!It might be better on road and cheaper but that's not the question. Everyone knows it, the only ones arguing it are the ones who don't want to spend the money on a real 4x4 its only because ifs is more common and therefore cheaper that people bother with it. Hey I don't care what people run if you want to be limping home with a broken CAR everytime you tackle some decent offroading go ahead enjoy, just please stop trying to convince everybody listening that you ifs car is anything but a light duty somtimes 4x4.
People are always trying to convince themselves that the cheap version of something that they brought is as good as the real thing from wheels to lockers to TVs to greatwall, Its a real kiwi thing.

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby De-Ranged » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:52 am

:lol: lets all spank ourselves over our antiquated solid axles, its what we have so it is the best :roll: :lol:

The major car manufacturers design there independent suspension for road use and light 4wd'n.... this is the market for first purchase 4wd's, this is also why it is weak, it isn't designed for abuse.... why should they throw there profit margin away so the third+ buyer can have a vehicle that survives

Simple answer and why BIG money is being thrown at Independent suspension in the military and Ultra 4 offroaders, yes it is better in nearly all situations.... if it is designed for the environment it is in
Why are the military spending billions on Independent suspension for offroad vehicles or how about the trend in Ultra 4 racing... its an IFS/IRS truck that is winning the Ultra 4.... guess the driver must be really good because all you hatters know it can't compete :lol:

Go back and read my previous post, the only tuning advantage solid axle gives you is a high rollcenter, all that is needed to equal that is a sway bar on an independent suspended vehicle hmmm
Hang on how about the ground clearance issue, pffft :lol: this is why the military is so keen on it... when done properly its greater, no diff head hanging down to catch
As for the "Unloading" suspension comment a while back.... this has nothing to do with suspension "type" :lol: it has to do with springs yes something we all have in our trucks... and there is something to this, but not what you think. Historically beam axle suspension has used leaf springs and IFS used coil or torsion... the leaf spring is progressive rate where the other two are linear rate, this means the leaf spring will "unload" less... this is a broad generalization tho and you can have linear leaves and progressive coils :lol:
but is the best answer to why

So go on spankers run this down, but before you do have a read of this
Neo-Luddism :twisted:

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby The WEHI » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:22 am

:mrgreen: This is funny, there's no one perfect setup comparing a mass produced road going ifs truck against a rock crawler setup is like catching trout in a high country stream with a surf caster, right tools for the right job not everyone does the same style of offroading

ill stick to solid axles for my 4wding style
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby yeti » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:41 am

The WEHI wrote::mrgreen: This is funny, there's no one perfect setup comparing a mass produced road going ifs truck against a rock crawler setup is like catching trout in a high country stream with a surf caster, right tools for the right job not everyone does the same style of offroading

ill stick to solid axles for my 4wding style

That's where im going wrong ... Thanks for the fishing tip :mrgreen:
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby turoa » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:08 am

I'd rock one of these kits any day of the week :mrgreen:

Image

Image

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby timmay556 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:04 pm

turoa wrote:I'd rock one of these kits any day of the week :mrgreen:

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/conte ... mation.gif

Why? All that R&D spent to polish a turd.

Compare that to what a standard saf/troll can do with a 2" lift for 1/10th of the money spent.



$3,361.28 U S D $

ADDITIONAL ITEMS REQUIRED FOR INSTALL:
COILOVER SHOCKS, SECONDARY SHOCKS, AIRBUMPS
FIBERGLASS FENDERS, CUSTOM UPPER SHOCK MOUNTS

And thats only for the front suspension



"Yeah mate, easy as installing a 2" lift in a SFA wagon"

Image


Hilarious.


Face it. IFS was designed for on road comfort not off road ability



Sauce http://store.sdhqoffroad.com/1986-1995t ... tgen3.aspx
Last edited by timmay556 on Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby TJ » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:12 pm

Nah, portals are the best.
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby TJ » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:18 pm

The only reason Jeep is sticking with solid axles on a brand new Wrangler is the backlash from offroad community if it ever goes IFS. Solid axles are easier to modify and take more beating before stuff breaks.

My only comments here.
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby Heath » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:57 pm

SHIT!!!

Has anyone let GM and rover/toyota/mitsi/nissan etc know they are producing shit that should never leave the tarmac? The thought of all those Hummers, pinzgauers and rovers, etc being stuck waving their flippers at the bumpy dirt roads is a terrible heart breaking thought. OH THE HUMANITY!!! Someone please get down to their R and D sections and let them know that they are wrong to be moving forwards and put beams under their wagons, oh and get some guys in white coats with flags to walk in front.

While you are at it let the offroad racing fraternity know that all those fragile and silly flipper suspension systems arent going to handle the jandle. Maybe all those 4wd beam axle wagons running in the offroad series need to be told they should be in front of the silly IFS "cars". I've seen some "CARS" beat the asses off "proper 4wds" and it comes down to technique mainly - the nut behind the wheel is more important than any other modification.

:D Please - are you f'ing conscious? If these systems were so bad why are they in use and going strong. Yes I'll agree that for "SOME" forms of offroading the old fashioned beam setup works (even with "cart springs" - leaves), but check out where the development is heading.

The question was is IFS better than beam, not who's penis is bigger than others. The simple answer is yes and no. It depends on the usage and on the drivers ability. :mrgreen:

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby timmay556 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:05 pm

I crack up when people think the IFS in their Holden Colorado is the same as a HUMVEE - or anything military.

Development is heading in the direction of better On-Road comfort and saftey.

I guess the better way to answer OP's question is.

How many solid axle -> IFS kits are sold?

exactly

How many people go from IFS -> solid axle?

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby Pedro » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:40 pm

timmay556 wrote:
Why? All that R&D spent to polish a turd.

Compare that to what a standard saf/troll can do with a 2" lift for 1/10th of the money spent.


Face it. IFS was designed for on road comfort not off road ability


hmm, so you are saying a IFS is no good offroad? not to distant past there was a IFS IRS trials truck that cleaned up 2 seasons in a row, there are still ifs trucks out there in competition, horse for courses, as for Saf/troll and spending money on the suspension, you could save a shitload more and by a disco...... already sorted 8)

Pedro

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby timmay556 » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:13 pm

Pedro wrote:hmm, so you are saying a IFS is no good offroad? not to distant past there was a IFS IRS trials truck that cleaned up 2 seasons in a row, there are still ifs trucks out there in competition, horse for courses, as for Saf/troll and spending money on the suspension, you could save a shitload more and by a disco...... already sorted 8)

Pedro
are you seriously implying that the IRS and IFS comp trucks are the same thing that roles out of the factory from Holden/Ford/Toyota these days :lol:

Ok, done with this thread

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby Cameron » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:44 pm

^ solid axle comp trucks are hardly factory either bud :roll:

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby klompy » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:59 pm

I see there are some tools in the shed.

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby Big » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:18 pm

Are we there yet.. :roll:

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby zed » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:20 pm

Don't make me turn this thread around... :lol:
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby UBZ » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:28 pm

Solid Axle is better

people on the Internet says so

Must be true :mrgreen:
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby Suza » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:56 pm

How much longer :lol:

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby Big » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:59 pm

surely, are we there yet.. :roll:

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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby rokhound » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:18 pm

It also depends on what tyres you run. The discussion needs to change focus and go on about tyre size, type, and rim size etc...... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: why is IFS better than solid axle offroad

Postby vvilly » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:43 pm

rokhound wrote:It also depends on what tyres you run. The discussion needs to change focus and go on about tyre size, type, and rim size etc...... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



I think you missed the most important part.


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