Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

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Craydiver
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Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby Craydiver » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:34 pm

Im looking at fitting electronic boost controller and external waste gate
Locally they seem rather expensive
Ebay is 1/2 the price
Anyone experienced buying online, both good or bad experiences?brands? Etc
88SWB GQ TD Turbo, 35's, lockers

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby BlakeNZ » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:28 pm

a good quality second hand one will give better results than a cheaper asian made one.( I've owned two HDi brand electronic boost controllers, and both have suffered electrical faults, one where the low boost setting became unable to regulate boost , and the other developed a battery draining current draw. Their technical support was not real helpful either. try to pick up a used Blitz or HKS unit from trade me if budget is an issue.
Make sure you get a name brand external gate, as the generic copies tend to be of lower quality, especially the diaphragm material. HKS and turbosmart are well proven. 2nd hand is fine, provided it is in good working condition.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:36 pm

what model engine is it going on ?

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby Craydiver » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:43 pm

Td42, needs to be capable of 30 psi if we go u there, aim is around 20 ish currently
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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:13 pm

Craydiver wrote:Td42, needs to be capable of 30 psi if we go u there, aim is around 20 ish currently

don't waste your $$ with electric controller.
ball and spring one will do the job. might have to tweak the spring a bit for high boost.
http://www.nxsmotorsports.com/ works well but theres plenty of others.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby bombaybasher » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:58 pm

Some Old scania trucks had big external wastegates as tough as a tank but I've found tial wastegates although pricey never fail, saying this though why use a waste gate on a td42?i just adjusted the fuel screw to adjust the boost and with my setup it maxed at 30psi and wouldn't make any more boost

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby zed » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:47 am

tweake wrote:
Craydiver wrote:Td42, needs to be capable of 30 psi if we go u there, aim is around 20 ish currently

don't waste your $$ with electric controller.
ball and spring one will do the job. might have to tweak the spring a bit for high boost.
http://www.nxsmotorsports.com/ works well but theres plenty of others.


+1 diesels love air and aren't going to go bang like a petrol if you get a small (or large) boost spike. Ball & spring is simple/cheap and will do the job. Only times I've used ebc's on diesels are in the early 1kz days when the computers cut out at 14psi. But with a small electronic box you can run a 1kz at 20psi on factory computer now.
IFS all the way...go the mark 1 Pajero!

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:59 pm

bombaybasher wrote:why use a waste gate on a td42?i just adjusted the fuel screw to adjust the boost and with my setup it maxed at 30psi and wouldn't make any more boost

that only really works with excessively large turbo's and poor fueling.
you could put in double the fuel and reduce the boost in half and it will go 3x as good.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby Twodiffs » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:25 pm

Listen to tweake, my controller is a ball and spring type and has been on for nearly 3 years now, works perfectly
and I only had to adjust the boost down when Tom from 'tomsoffroad' fitted a 4" snorkel and airbox for me.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby Craydiver » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:18 pm

Thanks for feedback, will go for the simple controller.
Aim is at this stage to run 14ish psi (spring)with abilityto up it for the odd times i want it when off road.maybe a switch/solenoid to activate the manual controller for high boost.
Its a weekend toy for hunting (3hr ex ak)but is also becoming a reasonable truck for winch comp,club runs.
Have new 12mmpump, water to air i/c, 4inch ss snorkel, new exhaust manifold,decent airbox yet made~500cfm by my calcs for est hp, plus a 3inch exhaust.Will run current turbo but expect to pos go bigger later.last ,mod willbe larger inlet manifold vol.
A decent external waste gate appears where i need to spend the $.
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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:20 pm

Twodiffs wrote:Listen to tweake, my controller is a ball and spring type and has been on for nearly 3 years now, works perfectly
and I only had to adjust the boost down when Tom from 'tomsoffroad' fitted a 4" snorkel and airbox for me.

and yours is a good example of a well sorted setup 8)

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:24 pm

Craydiver wrote:Thanks for feedback, will go for the simple controller.
Aim is at this stage to run 14ish psi (spring)with abilityto up it for the odd times i want it when off road.maybe a switch/solenoid to activate the manual controller for high boost.
Its a weekend toy for hunting (3hr ex ak)but is also becoming a reasonable truck for winch comp,club runs.
Have new 12mmpump, water to air i/c, 4inch ss snorkel, new exhaust manifold,decent airbox yet made~500cfm by my calcs for est hp, plus a 3inch exhaust.Will run current turbo but expect to pos go bigger later.last ,mod willbe larger inlet manifold vol.
A decent external waste gate appears where i need to spend the $.

i wouldn't bother do switchable. nice idea with petrol engines or efi diesels, but with mechanical injection i think your better off just setting one boost and tuning it to that.
if you want less power put a rock under the pedal.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby Twodiffs » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:27 pm

Just got the bits from the right places mate :wink: .

And once again what tweake said, set it for what boost you plan to run and output or maximum boost is controlled by the accelerator pedal!
Last edited by Twodiffs on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby BlakeNZ » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

what size do you think you will need?
38mm new are $220-320
second hand $150
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 117903.htm
job done.
or $380 for a new 40mm waste gate
Big ones go up in price quite steeply from there.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:43 pm

what turbo are you going to be running?
most seam to be using internal waste gates. i don't see much mention of externals being used and i guess wouldn't need to be used until you get well into crank snapping outputs.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby Craydiver » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:17 pm

Turbo is Scarles currently (but only good for 18 psi im told), but looking at the holset HX35 or the UFi ex aust
External waste gate needs to be a 38mm.Current SCR runs internal gate.
if setting to one boost is the way to go then im probably better to just get right spring and use less jandal, unless manual controller allows some subtle tuning
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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:23 pm

ball/spring as the advantage of reducing wastegate creep and allows quicker build up.
i think the likes of UFI have internal waste sized already.
ask the guys on the patrol forum, theres a recent post about various turbo and pump setups.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby Twodiffs » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:41 pm

The UFI wastegate is taken care of and internal, you won't go wrong with one of their turbo's.
You don't need a 12mm pump to compliment their turbo choices BUT if you do go 12mm then you are looking
at 230rwhp PLUS, their pump can be set for 270rwhp so 170 - 200rwkw. And you are bordering on crank snapping
territory.

A well set up 11mm pump from the right place (not in NZ) will still give you upwards of 190rwhp (150 rwkw) with only half
of the fuel capability being used.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby bombaybasher » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:36 pm

[[/quote]
that only really works with excessively large turbo's and poor fueling.
you could put in double the fuel and reduce the boost in half and it will go 3x as good.[/quote]

Well a compound turbo set up is not excessively large and and why double the fuel when this will only increase ex temps, get with the times any decent turbo diesel are some kind of twin/ compound set up these days for power and efficiency , waste gates are only for reducing power

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:58 am

bombaybasher wrote:Well a compound turbo set up is not excessively large and and why double the fuel when this will only increase ex temps, get with the times any decent turbo diesel are some kind of twin/ compound set up these days for power and efficiency , waste gates are only for reducing power


ROFLMAO :lol:
what a load of crap.

theres quite a few well sorted setups in NZ (i know UFI has sent a fair few over here), if you get a chance go for a drive in one and you will have a BIG smile on your face and you might understand why your idea is so knuckle dragging.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby slidenyo » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:39 pm

About to dive into an innovate scg-1 wide band and controller. Call me crazy but I'm considering running a gate on the inlet plumbed back pre turbo. As the scg appears to be able to control boost to maintain a target far.
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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby slidenyo » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:32 pm

《Afr》as I plan on running an Ungated hot side and would be looking to have the gate open to negate compressor stall on the cold side
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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:18 pm

slidenyo wrote:About to dive into an innovate scg-1 wide band and controller. Call me crazy but I'm considering running a gate on the inlet plumbed back pre turbo. As the scg appears to be able to control boost to maintain a target far.

why would you want to run an egr system ?

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby slidenyo » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:19 pm

Cold side only pre turbo plumbed to post turbo as a means of boost control . As running two gates on a twin scroll hot side is complicated and expensive. Also as a tuning aid to stay in the 15 to 19 range for afr
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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:41 pm

slidenyo wrote:Cold side only pre turbo plumbed to post turbo as a means of boost control . As running two gates on a twin scroll hot side is complicated and expensive. Also as a tuning aid to stay in the 15 to 19 range for afr

you mean from turbo compressor inlet to compressor outlet. a bit like the anti surge ports.
i don't think it will work a a boost control as turbo would simply over rev and destroy itself as you effectively remove the load but retain the drive. not to mention be horrendously inefficient due to the heat from the compressor going back to inlet.

will have to check but isn't twin scroll waste gate a single gate anyway ? its just across both ports.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby slidenyo » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:33 pm

Yeah maybe not with the cat turbo I plan to run. It has similar to antisurge ports on the front cover. Trying to get it to work with what I have that being the garrett off a 4 litre same tractor or the cat off one bank of a smaller v8 marine motor. Both are fairly similar to the scales knockoff I have but not keen to run that
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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby tweake » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:31 pm

slidenyo wrote:Yeah maybe not with the cat turbo I plan to run. It has similar to antisurge ports on the front cover. Trying to get it to work with what I have that being the garrett off a 4 litre same tractor or the cat off one bank of a smaller v8 marine motor. Both are fairly similar to the scales knockoff I have but not keen to run that

4 litre tractor motor turbo on a TD42, i would guess its might be on the small side. i wouldn't worry about surging. just get it working first.
wastegate should be easy enough, no need for dual gates. just one to do both ports should be fine.

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby 85County » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:40 am

Craydiver wrote:Im looking at fitting electronic boost controller and external waste gate
Locally they seem rather expensive
Ebay is 1/2 the price
Anyone experienced buying online, both good or bad experiences?brands? Etc


ok i read this thread and unfortunately there is a lot of rubbish posted.

the first thing is a diesel with to much air is not a bad thing like a petrol. the opposite infact, where a lean petrol will run hot a lean diesel runs cooler.

but since you have decided to play with power, i would STRONGLY recommend you install a pre turbo EGT gage as the mandatory stage one before doing anything else.

but why do you want a waste gate - external. you could just wire you waste gate shut. worse that could happen is working your inter-cooler a bit more and upset a few greenies with a bit more NOX production ???

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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby slidenyo » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:00 am

Making too much boost at the expense of inlet temps and lean afr would be my consideration. Why not get a decent gate and controller and cycle the gate open at the top end if its leaning out at wot with max fueling. Wiring the gate shut might be a little shortsighted if its detrimental to the health of the turbo
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Re: Recommendations on boost controller&waste gate

Postby slidenyo » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:05 am

If you can make it to wot and the pump hitting its governor with afr in the healthy range isn't that how power and torque is made? max boost unless the fueling is there to support it is pointless. Drive inlet temps up air density down and afr lean
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