Carby to Injection, a Few questions

[lincooln]

So I am going from carby to Injection and I was wondering where the best place is to place the fuel pump? If I can fit it in the engine bay would that be ok? or is it too far from the tank?

That's about it really

cheers

[Crash bandicoot]

no it isn't too far from the tank. however i'd suggest keeping it some distance from the engine.

IF you use a Bosch inline pump for example you can put it just about anywhere along the fuel line from the tank to the fuel rail. but they push fluid easier then they suck it so better off placed just out side the tank.

[Ashohman]

I've got mine under the rear tray (Ute) across form the fuel tank im running a surge tank as I had to run bigger fuel lines 3/8' I had 1/4' to small.. might be something to look into but yes anyway I digress so im running 2 fuel pumps low pressure fills surge tank from main fuel tank and the top overflow returns to the main tank and a high pressure from the surge tank to motor which also return to the surge below the low pressure return.

works well. external pumps are nosier then internal ones but if you don't mind that they are simple.

[lincooln]

Yea I have the Standard Bosch inline Fuel pump. I will have to have a looksee and see where I can mount it in the rear. Engine bay is already cramped anyway. Probably good idea indeed to keep it away from the major heat source.

[BlakeJ]

just get a vitara tank with an intank fuel pump, problem solved, no noisy fuel pump. Or a little more work but what i did with my samurai is cut a whole in my samurai tank and put the vitara pump in there. doesnt have baffles but i can run right down to E without any starving issues

[lincooln]

just get a vitara tank with an intank fuel pump, problem solved, no noisy fuel pump. Or a little more work but what i did with my samurai is cut a whole in my samurai tank and put the vitara pump in there. doesnt have baffles but i can run right down to E without any starving issues

I would, but a Vitara tank won't be all that easy to fit to a Lada

[Heath]

just get a vitara tank with an intank fuel pump, problem solved, no noisy fuel pump. Or a little more work but what i did with my samurai is cut a whole in my samurai tank and put the vitara pump in there. doesnt have baffles but i can run right down to E without any starving issues

I would, but a Vitara tank won't be all that easy to fit to a Lada

just cut the pump section out and weld it in (might even bolt into place or cut out the bolt pattern bit too and weld that in for serviceability)

[lincooln]

Would anybody know if I could wire it up so the pump and ECU are on switches and the coil is still on the key ignition and have it road legal?

I can't see a problem really, so long as its all labeled.

Also I guess I could wire up the ECU to a switch and pump to the coil ignition system. Would it matter if the ECU was left on accidentally?

[3VILC]

I've got the vitara pump in my hilux, and it whines like a jet plane Tho having said that it is sitting on the bottom of the tank and fixed to the return line. It was only done this way as this pump was the only one small enough to fit in the hole without modifying the tank, and it was so tight there was no room for even any extra brackets or anything next to it. But it doesnt worry me and it works well, I too can run well down to the bottom without cutting out with no baffles or swirl pot in the tank.
My pump and EFI relays are just wired off the alternator IGN feed and run with the key. I dont see any real problem with your idea but why not just use an ignition switched feed? You could also wire the pump relay to the alternators charge light output, this would mean its only on when running same way auto choke is usually powered on carby engines. Or in my case it can be switched by the ECU but I was lazy

[lincooln]

cheers for the ideas and pointers all,

I gots me some thinking to do

[slide]

Would anybody know if I could wire it up so the pump and ECU are on switches and the coil is still on the key ignition and have it road legal?

I can't see a problem really, so long as its all labeled.

Also I guess I could wire up the ECU to a switch and pump to the coil ignition system. Would it matter if the ECU was left on accidentally?

If ecu was left on accidentally it would suck power, potentially leaving you with a flat battery

No issue for wof having the pump,ecu on switches. Could be worthwhile supplying power to switches via key to avoid flat battery issues.

Best if you can to wire fuel pump through ecu, so it primes system when key initially turned on, then stops power to pump unless engine started.
Also have it so it cuts if engine stalls.
This saves powerdraw, and a safety thing to. Incase of incident (even a popped line) engine will stall and if pump not stopped then you're gunna have a big expensive puddle of gas..

Fuel surge tank a good idea also, either a primer pump feeding a reservoir for the pressure pump, or having a bowl in bottom of tank that fuel can be drawn from (like factory units, fuel flows freely into, but drains slowly out). Even a reservoir inline, lower than the tank with a pipe out from lowest point in main tank feeding it.
Plenty of ways to skin a cat...

[lincooln]

I have a electrical pump for the carby setup as it is at the moment, could I use that for pumping into a surge tank? would it have enough flow? I would suppose it would as it could still supply the engine as it was, and injected won't use much more fuel would it?

I will have to have a look and see if the ECU, which is a original Fiat 124 spider, can have the pump wired through it. I know it is meant to have a fuel pump relay which lets it prime before starting.

I will have to start the install soon I guess, while I wait for the rest of the parts to be ready that were missing from the kit.

[slide]

That pump should be enough. But the efi pump will probably pump more fuel, as quite a bit will go back down return line. How much extra will have to be tested. (pump choice, pressure regulator, fuel line size/flow etc will all effect overall flow).
The current carby pump will also flow more to the surge tank than it would feeding a carby (shorter lines, no restriction eg fuelbowl shutoff).
I can't think of a way of knowing exact rates without connecting it all up and trying it.
Had the thought today re connecting pump relay through alternator charge light, could leave you stuck if your alternator stopped charging, your engine would stop running also

[lincooln]

yea, the alty I am sure will stop working to if I do that, just to be a pain in the arse, just like murphy.

So guess I can have the fuel return go back into surge tank if the little pump can't keep up. and if its too much thats fine as I can plumb it up to return to the tank like it would have been from factory.

I have now sorted myself a surge tank, and a fuel pump mount. Next up is some EFI hose the right size, hose clamps, and then bolt it all in and see where stuff fits and what will be best. Then I can start on mounting the ECU, and all that jazz. Then I will start on the wiring.

Yay for simple ideas that then spiral out of control. Sucks when you have a few projects all doing the same thing. Still better than drugs though.

[Mattman]

You can get tachometric relays to run the fuel pump. Kelvin from car tune often has them listed on trade me.

My thoughts on the fuel setup is to keep it simple and run an in tank pump or one close to the tank and avoid the surge tank and lift pump if you can. Factory vehicles don't need them and it keeps it simpler and has less bits.

They have their place but simple is best usually, and cheaper.

Matt.

[LOLYF]

Factory vehicles don't need them

Factory vehicles aren't put in the same situations as our modified ones.
Nothing worse than getting half way up a steep and slippery hill and having the engine die from fuel starvation.

And yes it does happen I have seen 2 vehicles run out of fuel in the past couple of weeks, neither were running surge tanks.

Lincoln, If you want a detailed explanation of how it all works your welcome to come have a look at my setup, I converted from carb to EFI with the 1UZ swap.

[Cameron]

I have a tachometric relay lying round somewhere if you want it. PM me your address

[lincooln]

Factory vehicles don't need them

Factory vehicles aren't put in the same situations as our modified ones.
Nothing worse than getting half way up a steep and slippery hill and having the engine die from fuel starvation.

And yes it does happen I have seen 2 vehicles run out of fuel in the past couple of weeks, neither were running surge tanks.

Lincoln, If you want a detailed explanation of how it all works your welcome to come have a look at my setup, I converted from carb to EFI with the 1UZ swap.

Next time I am out and about I will have a looksee at yours Mark indeed, cheers. I got a fuel surge tank for $40 from a mate, brand new never used etc. already have a lift pump etc, so main cost will be wire and hose.

[LOLYF]

Next time I am out and about I will have a looksee at yours Mark indeed, cheers. I got a fuel surge tank for $40 from a mate, brand new never used etc. already have a lift pump etc, so main cost will be wire and hose.

The hose can be pretty costly, I've got about 6.5 meters of high pressure hose in mine and it's the teflon lined braided stuff (normally retails for something like $65 a meter, luckily i know someone!)

One trick you can do is to mount the surge tank in the engine bay (if it'll fit) then you only need short lengths of EFI hose. The hose from the tank (lift pump) to the surge tank can be cheaper low pressure hose.

[lincooln]

One trick you can do is to mount the surge tank in the engine bay (if it'll fit) then you only need short lengths of EFI hose. The hose from the tank (lift pump) to the surge tank can be cheaper low pressure hose.

Yea, I was looking under it today and there is no way I can fit the surge tank under it. So it will have to be the engine bay, I can make it, got an idea, just have to make up some brackets. Otherwise it will have to be mounted in the boot in a box, which is just a pain in the arse.

Sure will be fun this conversion. Just can't wait to get it done,

[Mattman]

If you are building a competition or hardcore truck then its definitely worthwhile but if not then I stand by my original comment. A lot of very capable trucks make do with stock efi tanks.

I made an assumption about the sort of build that was being done and that might be wrong. Its too easy often to get caught up making everything the best it can be when you can sometimes go a simpler and cheaper and quicker route and get out there and start using it.

Lloyf certainly knows a lot more about awesome builds than me, that truck is wicked.

Cheers
Matt.

[lincooln]

Well finding a stock efi tank for a Lada would be bloody difficult as very few came out injected and am sure gee motors would want a testicle, arm , leg and a few ribs for one.

Was easier for me to get the surge tank and go that way. besides, it will be used in club trials and other things and will be driven fairly hard, so to know it will be reliable and I won't get issues, its totally worth it. Best to do it once, do it right.

Cheers all the same though man, appreciate your input