Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

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L-andy
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Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby L-andy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:11 pm

Went through the Tunnels and up Waipuna Creek on QBW.

Towards the bottom of Napoleon Hill it is clear that someone has been in there with earth moving machinery. Some of the humps and bumps towards the end of the creek have been removed and some of the washouts filled in.

The track up Napoleon Hill is now a graded track with all the rocky steps and "big lean" etc all gone. The section up to the sharp corner with "the big lean" (see photo) however is now a clay bog as it looks like a spring has been buried in the upgrade.

http://www.keepandshare.com/userpics/t/ ... 534680.jpg

We watched about 6 trucks from the Nelson Club attempt this section and all required winching or towing to get up. I did not get to see the track above this point as we could not wait any longer for the other 5 or 6 trucks ahead to all get winched up. No problem with the Nelson/Marlborough guys, they were doing their thing as quickly as possible and even offered us a pull up if we waited around (thanks guys).

I don't know how far up this work has gone but hope it will not continue any further, especially down the creek.

Much of what made the trip so good is now gone and whats left is a boring graded track with a bog in the middle which needs either huge tyres and horsepower or a winch. A well driven family club truck is no longer able to get up which was what made it such a great trip.

Gutted!!

Andy

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby muddy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:33 pm

I was in one of the trucks ahead... You're right - someone's made a real hash of it! The bog is just loose clay that was dumped on the track to grade it out, and is now bottomless mush. And he didn't even dig a drain at the side, so now the wheel-ruts are going to get washed out by the water running through them - much like the bottom of the saw-cut track.

What used to be a really scenic trip with native bush right to the edges on a technically challenging track, is now just like driving any forestry track with bare clay heaped up ther sides. Apparently it was done by a guy with a concession to run 4WD tours, with DOC permission. Our club will be making a formal complaint to DOC. I'm sure there would be hell to pay if we did a fraction of the damage to the landscape.

We did have two trucks that drove it, but only just, and both were well set-up winch challenge trucks following after a couple of club trucks on 32in tyres had been snatched through ahead.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby L-andy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:45 pm

Thanks for the input Muddy.

What was the track above that point like, is it graded right to the top?

Your right about the damage....we would get crucified if we made half the mess.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby muddy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:32 pm

That's by far the worst bit - the rest of the track reverts to a really nice drive. The silly thing is that he's buggered it for himself as well, although apparently he always takes his tours the other way and goes down that section. But once the ruts get washed out, he'll blame the deep ruts on us and claim his business is being ruined by clubs ripping the track up with big tyres...

Actually, looking over the side at the top of the section he's graded - it's quite likely that the whole section will slip into the gully in a heavy rainfall. It wouldn't be so bad if he'd done a good job and kept the diggings confined to a narrow path and improved the track - but he's just made a 40m wide bottomless bog with no drainage.

So I wouldn't say the whole track is ruined - but there's no point in going up that way without a good winch on the front truck, and be ready for some pretty heavy snatches to get the rest through.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby DieselBoy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:49 pm

Are you fcuking seriouse??

DOC has given a concession so some tool can get commercial gain from using one of the best tracks NZ has to offer??

Wait for the locked gates to go up next :evil: :evil:

Truely gutted. That was one of the best scenic drives in the whole of NZ. I was looking forward to next year when I could go through it again.

Make sure your clubs kick up a fuss, I bet you weren't consulted, even though you could technically be considered "stake holders".
lax2wlg wrote:Is that like saying 'she's hot, for a crackwhore??

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby muddy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:04 pm

DieselBoy wrote:Make sure your clubs kick up a fuss, I bet you weren't consulted, even though you could technically be considered "stake holders".


More than technically - we sent a delagation which spent 2hrs making a verbal submission on the West Coast CMS - and we're registered as an interested party!

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby L-andy » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:08 pm

Its a bloody shame....those rocky steps were NZ bedrock. It didn't matter how many vehicles drove it, it never changed. It felt like you were driving through jurrasic park with all the native ferns hanging over the track.

As you say Muddy, its now a bland clay track which may all end up going down the hill in the next big downpour.

I've asked our club rep to raise it at the next Combined Clubs meeting.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby fisho » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:29 pm

Cant be certain but it sounds like the work of Malcolm Langley from 352 state highway 7 kiata, greymouth.I believe he runs tagalong 4wd tours thru napoleons hill and has been pushing for the sole right to use the track for some time.Havent been and had a look myself but sounds like its a mess and he will be the first to blame other users.His phone no. is 03 7680985 you could give him a call and see what hes up to. cheers flag.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby DieselBoy » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:51 pm

Its WENZEL TIME :evil: :evil: :evil:
lax2wlg wrote:Is that like saying 'she's hot, for a crackwhore??

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby albundy » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:14 pm

Apparently it was done by a guy with a concession to run 4WD tours, with DOC permission.

Yep, flag is right, it's Malcom. He did the same to No Name rd as well. He has concession for tours for the whole west coast. I looked into a siomilar veture about 5 years ago, but Malcom has the whole placed stitched up, I would have had to sub lease the concession through him. They are shiny tours, hence why he needs to grade the tracks.
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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby Taz » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:11 pm

Wouldn't it be nice if we all could just go and tear shit up left right and center to make things suit our businesses rather than trying to make the business suit our environments.... :roll: :roll:
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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby petefj40 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:38 pm

albundy wrote:
Apparently it was done by a guy with a concession to run 4WD tours, with DOC permission.

Yep, flag is right, it's Malcom. He did the same to No Name rd as well. He has concession for tours for the whole west coast. I looked into a siomilar veture about 5 years ago, but Malcom has the whole placed stitched up, I would have had to sub lease the concession through him. They are shiny tours, hence why he needs to grade the tracks.
Al


How can a private company have concession for tours for the whole West Coast??
Doesn't sound right Al.

Because I haven't been there I tried to find some youtube of it.
This was all I could find without digging deeper.
Looks shiny but awesome all the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czTzuclKpo4

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby L-andy » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:28 pm

Thats the track but the footage is all chopped about and put togeter in the wrong order...some of the track is shown 2 or 3 times and some not at all. It was shot in the mid 90s as well so things have changed a bit.

3.18 mins in shows the vehicle emerging from the top of what was the narrow part with rocky steps which is gone and it is now, as Muddy says, a 40m wide bog. There is no way that wee Blizzard would get up there now.

Much as a thorough Wenzeling would be entertaining, I am exploring more traditional avenues at the moment.

Thanks for all your input guys.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby fisho » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:49 pm

Malcolm does not have concessions for the whole coast and has been running trips in areas where he has no concessions. Al is right about no name road.This guy does or used to do 4wd driver training and used no name road for this. He tried a few years ago to get napoleons hill made one way so you could only drive down it and was responsible for the signs up there. :!: :roll:

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby Smurf » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:10 pm

petefj40 wrote:Because I haven't been there I tried to find some youtube of it.
This was all I could find without digging deeper.
Looks shiny but awesome all the same.



photos 140 through 196 are from napoleons Hill in 2006. photos are in reverse order.

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/gallery ... ast?page=1

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby petefj40 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:01 pm

Smurf wrote:
petefj40 wrote:Because I haven't been there I tried to find some youtube of it.
This was all I could find without digging deeper.
Looks shiny but awesome all the same.



photos 140 through 196 are from napoleons Hill in 2006. photos are in reverse order.

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/gallery ... ast?page=1


Sweet! Cheers.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby red-devil » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:19 pm

pete u would love that little track.

u start off going through the tunnels, along the river, it as high as side an is a smooth floor. then theres the climb up the hill.

need good flex if u drove straight up but any shiney with a saviy driver would waltz up with ease

i think we the 4x4 community should go to the counsel over there an start them lookin into this person.

two great tracks he has stuffed that we know of, question is how many more will he get to stuff up just for his gain.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby wjw » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:12 pm

5 Years Ago:

Image

4.5 Years Ago:

Image


Today:

Image
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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby red-devil » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:06 pm

far out that has changed for the worst, an it looks like u need hugh HP to get up there now

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby Mudde1 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:08 pm

red-devil wrote:i think we the 4x4 community should go to the counsel over there an start them lookin into this person.
.

all ready underway
Tony.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby red-devil » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:59 pm

good to hear.

looks .like this xmas trip i was going to do with the family will be out.

or ill have to buy a winch extension

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby Jerry » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:15 pm

do you have any email contacts for doc/council that we can politely email our displeasure to?
70 series prado (KZJ78) and 90 Series Prado (KZJ95)

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby petefj40 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:52 pm

Jerry wrote:do you have any email contacts for doc/council that we can politely email our displeasure to?


Very good idea Jerry.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby Bulletproof » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:02 am

red-devil wrote:good to hear.

looks .like this xmas trip i was going to do with the family will be out.

or ill have to buy a winch extension


You don't have to go up that way. You could go up the track further up the vallley and then come down that one and through the caves

That track was only ever a scenic route with out a challenge and as long as Suburu hill and the loop by the caves is left there is still plenty for ones who like a challenge

cheers Richard
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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby red-devil » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:04 pm

cheers richard.

i only go in there for the senic drive. lili loves the water falls an the worms in the cave. she still a little small for subrau hill i think.

its been a while since i look at it

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby wjw » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:10 pm

red-devil wrote:cheers richard.

i only go in there for the senic drive. lili loves the water falls an the worms in the cave. she still a little small for subrau hill i think.

its been a while since i look at it


Providing you go down subaru hill you should be ok with littlies, just make sure your brakes work first.
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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby red-devil » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:28 pm

wjw wrote:
Providing you go down subaru hill you should be ok with littlies, just make sure your brakes work first.



dose any one have the directions to find subaru hill and head down and throught the creek.

as i always drive out up the hill, so i normaly follow my nose out.

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby L-andy » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:22 pm

Sorry…..didn’t mean to mislead anyone planning a trip in there.

Bulletproof is of course correct (thanks Richard), there are other ways to get to the top of Napoleon Hill and it’s true that it was certainly not a challenge for his truck…..but that’s not really the point I was trying to make.

The track that has been ruined is the one at the top end of Nobles Creek. It led straight on from the tunnels up to the top of Napoleon Hill. It was just the right mix of steep ruts, rocky steps and articulation to make a newbie feel like they had really achieved something but was not too boring for the more seasoned driver either. The feeling that you were following 150 year old cart tracks from the gold mining days continued from the tunnels right up past the old cemetery at the top with native bush right next the track all the way. This is no longer the case.

The track has been upgraded very unsympathetically and the banks, trees and ferns on both sides have been demolished. There is actually very little left to winch from should you need to going up. The area of real concern is a stretch of blue clay track between two bends which was wet when all the rest of the track was dry. No drainage has been provided and I suspect there is a spring there which has been buried in the process. Because of this and because so much of the banks and bush on either side have been removed, I (and some others) are concerned that a whole section will disappear down the hill in the next downpour. There will be no driving up or down then and who will get the blame……..?!

Also, is the work finished? Are other tracks to follow? Perhaps a bit of fettling on the Chasm track so I can take my mum through in her RAV 4……..rant over!

Other routes up are:

Mosquito Creek as per Richards post, which it further up Waipuna Creek (stay off private land on true right of Waipuna Creek), or:

Via Orwell Creek Farm to the south if you contact/pay the cocky. From the Orwell Creek side there are actually 3 routes up:

1. Keep following Orwell Creek Rd into the bush and keep going. The track does a big U and comes back along the ridge to top of Napoleon Hill and past the turning on the right down Mosquito Creek and past the Cemetery. The cemetery is easy to miss, just some steps cut into clay bank by side of track lead to fenced area with burial mounds. No crosses or headstones remain. Keep going and it will take you down to Nobles Creek (via the track which this post is about), through tunnels and ultimately out to Waipuna Creek.

2. Turn left off Orwell Creek Rd at approx paddock/bush boundary and head up round a bend and take first tack on right (name unknown and not marked on topo maps as far as I am aware) loose steep climb which rejoins track 1. 100m or so south of the Cemetery.

3. As above but go further around bottom of hill and up Subaru hill past wreck of old Subaru car. Huge ruts, winching pretty much inevitable and damage highly likely. I have seen mirrors, indicators etc smashed/squashed/removed and panel damage on Subaru Hill. Rejoins track 1. 200m or so North of Cemetery.

Andy

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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby wjw » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:19 pm

L-andy wrote:
3. As above but go further around bottom of hill and up Subaru hill past wreck of old Subaru car. Huge ruts, winching pretty much inevitable and damage highly likely. I have seen mirrors, indicators etc smashed/squashed/removed and panel damage on Subaru Hill. Rejoins track 1. 200m or so North of Cemetery.

Andy


I thought coming down Subaru Hill wasn't too bad??? But maybe my memory has faded over the years. comments?
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Re: Napoleon Hill Ruined !!

Postby L-andy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:40 pm

Last I looked was QBW 2010...

Most of it was ok but there were two places where deep ruts made it very difficult (if not impossible) not to drag the body against the bank on the way down.

Just to keep it fair, the first bit leans the passenger side against the bank and the second bit does the drivers side.....so they match at the bottom !

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