Hilux 'cross over steering'

1lurch · Post by **1lurch** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:51 pm

hi all , just looking for tips and advice on this conversion . pic.s welcome . seen one where they used two 'cast' arms back to back . have also heard a whisper that the LN61 arm fouls on the spring , under compression .... help .

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:32 pm

I'm building custom arms just for this.... hopefully have some pics soon :roll:

so long as rover lasts

The most common conversion is done on lifted springs or syspesion lifts (standard SAS leaf's there just an't the room to fit it )
They start with a surf steering box (think the IFS hilux box's will do same) as these swing left and right, hilux ones swing up and down chassi
For the steering arms you can cough the coin and get custom builts
http://store.snakeracing.com.au/cache/item-434public.html?cache=no
or you can do like some do and lay a spare drivers side arm (trimmed back) ontop of the passanger one and bolt the whole lot together with extra long studs and spacers (think Steve has done this on conans truck :scratch: or it could have been on his MU)
With either depending on your lift you might need extra long bump stops to stop the spring contact you mentioned
Both will give you the advantages of X-over steering, the bonus with custom.. they are way stronger and your tie rod is up outa harms way, you may also have some problems certing the cheap option it has been done but some of the Cert engineers don't like it :roll:

Will have some pics soon if I can get back to project lemon

Cheers Reece[/url]

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:01 am

Yup, I did it on Conans Surf AND my MU, although I used a custom shorter arm on the MU due to the tiny-assed little pitman arm its got.

The Surf pitman arm has a big bend in it so it will foul unless you: use (from memory) a 60 or 70-series cruiser one? Someone correct me there, can't remember - they are flatter but point forward... brain fade...

or option b, which is to make a new front mount as per Conans truck, which lifts the front of the truck:

This gives enough clearance for the crossover using a standard IFS box in the standard position with the standard pitman arm.

Then you need a way to attach a drag link:

This is just a cut-down relay rod from the IFS assembly, machined with the appropriate thread for whatever rod you will use - I used a 40-series drag link because its IFS Hilux-threaded and the right length.

And the other end:

This is the flipped cast arm method you were talking about. Its been done and certified by others before me - talk to Wopass. Another alternative would be to use a high-pinion front diff, and the arms from a Prado to have a bottom-mounted tie-rod and then a standard arm on the top passenger side to attach the drag link to, although it would be too low and would foul the spring I think... you really need the height the flipped arm gives you to give clearance for the pass-side spring pack.

...or buy some high-steer arms from Reece as he suggested

Steve

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:18 am

I was talking about snakeracing or one of the american companys
:roll:

I've still got to finish the jigs for the latest version of these arms... and at this stage I'm only making 2 extra sets.. so first in first served
Then I might accidently lose the jigs so I can continue on with projects instead :wink:

One day I wouldn't mind getting into a bit of bis doing this sort of thing, but right at the mo I'd rather have a finished toy :lol:

Oh and before I go, just let you know my (2nd gen) arms will be as strong as snake ones and better thought out :wink:

and I've started planing a extreme set for rock crawling with 36"+ wheels :twisted:

these bastards will be evil :lol:

Oh and just a note what ever you do with your steering don't weld anything, can only be done by certified welder and the welds have to pass X-ray tests!

Cheers Reece

1lurch · Post by **1lurch** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:25 pm

cheers guys , that's certainly got the old mind going . have there been any problems with using the reversed arm ? ORI (off road industries) in oz make one that looks just like this but it has a gusset for strength . but as usual we are working within a budget .

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:45 am

If your going down that path just do the longer studs and bolt another drivers arm ontop way cheaper
I can't get into the site but I know what you mean snakeracing make a similar one its just a replacement for your passanger arm with the double (one up one down) before you buy it get them to give you a price on postage and handling you'll probably find you won't be far off what I want for mine :wink:

Cheers Reece

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:28 am

I have a mate with one of those arms - bought it in for his prado-coil converted 5-soor surf, but theres no room between the chassis and the axle for it since he's kept its ride height pretty low.

You'd get it for probably around $450, which is cheaper than it would cost to get it here, but the flipped arm option will be just over half that.

Steve

1lurch · Post by **1lurch** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:17 pm

ok got so far into this over the weekend , now i just need to source the longer studs ..... can you get them fom toyota or do i need to try another place ? :oops:

has anyone tried milling the two faces flat ?? would make this a lot stronger , or does it require too much of the yoke being thinned ????

cheers AL :idea:

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:35 pm

If you milled the faces I think it might end up being a bit too low when you feed the balljoint into it. The spacers (or nuts between) put it in about the right place. There probably wouldn't be much point unless you were going to weld the two arms together, which kind of defeats this way of doing it and means x-rays and expensive reports. I'd leave them just the way they are.

Oh, and from my research you can't buy long studs like that... they have to be machined. I had mine done by a local engineer - I think it cost about $100 for all 4 studs done from high-tensile steel rod, with the coarse and fine threads machined.

Hope that helps

Steve

suzolla · Post by **suzolla** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:08 pm

Hi, Don't understand why the threads have to be different at each end of the stud, suely you just get nuts the same thread as in the swivil housing and use some high tensile studs or threaded rod to suit. Or, I think I am correct in say that WOPASS used high tensile socket head cap screws for his.
Thanks, Tim

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:48 pm

When I do a mod like this I have a couple of things in mind. a: what will the certifier think when he sees it, and b: what did toyota use a metric fine thread for?

I figure if I go with Toyotas original design I won't go too far wrong in the cert stakes, which is important for what I do, even if it costs a bit more to do it that way.

Steve

De-Ranged · Post by **De-Ranged** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:54 am

If your using rated high tensil cap screws there should be no problems just keep the reciept for the certifiyer and double check your length! You want to use every bit of the threaded hole but you don't want them sticking through!

Cheers Reece

oldblue · Post by **oldblue** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:41 am

just a little obsersation, would it be more sensable to machine up one piece , double ended collets, to fit inbetween the stearing arms. From an engineering point of view, only one part instead of three.

eatenfuller · Post by **eatenfuller** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:12 am

hmmmmmmmmmmm theres another :wink:

good minds think alike aye oldblue,so theres more than one gear head on here aye

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:15 am

Well, thought about doing that but this way I have nuts anchoring the first arm onto the housing, and then I have a second set of nuts anchoring the second arm to the first and the housing...

There are a hundred ways to skin a cat... I did it this way... and it worked

If I had thought of using single cap screws instead of studs I probably would have bought some to try it but I didn't... had my "Toyota used studs, I'll use em too" blinkers on :lol:

But I figure this way mr cert man will be happy, and I can tell him, hey - its what Mr Toyoda did... now, wheres that little smiley pic of a guy covering his butt?...

Steve

oldblue · Post by **oldblue** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:34 am

By useing a collet system, the tighter you do up the top nut the more ridgeed the whole system becomes. There hase got to be a great deal of twisting motion taking place at this point. [/img]

eatenfuller · Post by **eatenfuller** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:14 am

totally agree old blue,if you want to fasten something that takes heaps of leverage you wont beat a wedge collet :!:

some times i should of just married my milling machine :lol:

but as steve said theres 100 ways to skin a cat

if youre doin alot of rock smashing .............you will see what will last and what methods wont

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:01 pm

Theres 8 colletts in there... 4 pointing down into the lower arm, then 4 nuts, then 4 more pointing up into the steering arm... you're right, the tighter its done up, the tighter they get - and since its all tightened... twice... it should never move.

We'll see... the proof of the pudding, they say... is in the eating...

Steve

wopass · Post by **wopass** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:24 pm

mine has a spacer plate in between the two arms(no nuts in between) with collets in each arm(4 in the bottom,4 in the top,upside down) which seems to be holding up ok so far,i have used high tensile(12.4 i think)cap head bolts to fasten mine down instead of machining up new longer studs.running 36"tyres which puts some serious strain on things so its proving itself to be solid enough.

pretty hard to see cos its sooo shiny

...

ohh and i have flattened my upper arm a little so that it doesnt smash the PTO shaft which would be bad....

1lurch · Post by **1lurch** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:56 pm

got the arm in place .

had to have a chuckle today , the guy at the brake shop must have almost had kittens when i asked for some new flexy hoses.
they needed to be around 250 mm longer than standard . he asked me three times if my measurement was correct .

looks like its another weekend lying under the surf ....... we all need a hobby :lol:

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:28 pm

And now *I'm* going to ask the same thing as the brake shop guy... 250mm over standard? geez louise! Mine aer about 45mm over standard and stil have heaps to go - and Conans WERE standard!

You just cut the brake mount from the top of the chassis and re-weld it on the side down a bit and you have all the hose you need right there.

:roll:

crazy

Send photos... I need to see...

Steve

Hilux 'cross over steering'

Hilux 'cross over steering'

studs

;-p

brake lines