Land Rover design changes

[AaronLean]

Hi everyone. I'm new onto this forum so hello!

Loving some of the threads on here so far.

I wanted to ask people what their most loved Land Rover design is? And what do we all think will be the future of the designs as they seem to be getting more 'urban' over the years.

Cheers guys!!!

[slidenyo]

remuera tractors? urban 4wding ? market research ?
Future proof the living daylights out of them.
rovers could benefit hugely from zinc plating any non alloy parts from the factory (maybe they already do I've just never owned a new one).
also possibly look at using other manufacturers hardware to bring costs down ie diffs from Nissan or Toyota which would make parts interchangeability viable across the globe along with increasing aftermarket supply options in countries where rovers aren't sold.

some may see this as bastardising them?

[TJ101]

Guess it all depends on which Land Rover model you are thinking about ??

If Defender,, their days are numbered !!

[muddymatt1973]

My fave has to be classic Rangerover. 2 door, V8 on carbs, 4 speed box. Just a brilliant bit of design and when new it was years ahead of the competition.

Future - I would love to see LR introduce a small, cheap, easy to fix, basic 4x4. Make a non-emmisions crap basic as hell version to sell in developing countries and to farmers etc... Internal roll cage from factory and masses of options. 3 cly eco-boost Ford type power or Diesel.
Take sales away from Polaris etc.... in the UTV market and away from mainstream car manufacturers too.
Imagine a vehicle as road capable and cheap as a Suzuki swift with the off road ability of a Quad.

Some retro styling cues from the Series 1 wouldn't hurt either. Overall size of an 80inch S1 and use of plastics instead of alloy would keep weight and cost down.
Only problem would be crash protection / airbags.

[DieselBoy]

.........and that's why the Defender is finishing production, they can't make it meet the necessary safety requirements and retain its awesomeness

[Hawkertempest]

My favourite would have to be the Discovery 4. Being an ex Land Rover Dealer and attending the launch of the Discovery 3 and having done all the off road training on that amazing vehicle. The Discovery 4 for me has to be Land Rovers ultimate achievement.
But, and it's a big but, I think the new diesel/electric Range Rover which will go on sale before the end of the year, may topple the Discovery 4 off it's perch. As it is going to be one hell of an amazing vehicle with impressive performance and fuel economy figures, both off and on road.
Land Rover is on the right track now and the sales successes are proving it. So they don't need to change anything or borrow anything from anyone else. It is a well known fact that Toyota purchases the first model of every new Land Rover/Range Rover released and pulls it apart to study how they make them. Even now they still haven't been able to build a better off road/on road vehicle.
Land Rovers order books are full and there is a 12 month world wide waiting list for Range Rover, Sport, and Discovery 4.
Plus new generation Discovery 5 is going to be due in 2016 model year and after that then it will be Freelander's turn, which I understand is coming under the Discovery Range. Which probably means there is going to be a smaller new Land Rover range to compete against the X3 sized SUV's.
The Company has been spending millions and millions of pounds in buildings, staff and R&D in the last 2 to 3 years to cater for this expansion in the UK. So it is well on track and will have the capacity and manpower for all this to happen.

[Hawkertempest]

My fave has to be classic Rangerover. 2 door, V8 on carbs, 4 speed box. Just a brilliant bit of design and when new it was years ahead of the competition.

Future - I would love to see LR introduce a small, cheap, easy to fix, basic 4x4. Make a non-emmisions crap basic as hell version to sell in developing countries and to farmers etc... Internal roll cage from factory and masses of options. 3 cly eco-boost Ford type power or Diesel.
Take sales away from Polaris etc.... in the UTV market and away from mainstream car manufacturers too.
Imagine a vehicle as road capable and cheap as a Suzuki swift with the off road ability of a Quad.

Some retro styling cues from the Series 1 wouldn't hurt either. Overall size of an 80inch S1 and use of plastics instead of alloy would keep weight and cost down.
Only problem would be crash protection / airbags.

The big problem is they only sell 25,000 Defenders a year, therefore the vehicle volume is too low and unprofitable.
The next generation Defender has to be sold in the States and has to pass EU emission/safety standards as well to get the volumes up to make it viable. Land Rover have a big problem trying to replace Defender and it looks likely that there could be a couple of years gap between the current models demise and the replacements arrival. Especially after the outcry that occurred following the release of the DC100 concept.
There is also the question of the Military market that the Defender used to have and how do they address that with the new model? So it is not an easy situation for them to solve.

[lax2wlg]

It is a well known fact that Toyota purchases the first model of every new Land Rover/Range Rover released and pulls it apart to study how they make them. Even now they still haven't been able to build a better off road/on road vehicle.

And Heeeeeeeere weeee goooo, ready for some soup soup

[Hawkertempest]

It is a well known fact that Toyota purchases the first model of every new Land Rover/Range Rover released and pulls it apart to study how they make them. Even now they still haven't been able to build a better off road/on road vehicle.

And Heeeeeeeere weeee goooo, ready for some soup soup

Hi,
What do you mean by that?
I have a 1999 Discovery 2 TD5 done 268,000 kms. I have just fitted 2 new front tyres, they are the start of the 3rd set of rubber from new. Apart from a second set of genuine alloys with Kumho KL71 Muds fitted. I have just fitted new Old Man Emu Nitro Charger Shocks, they have replaced the original shocks which were still okay. I get 1,000 kms out of a tank of diesel. My Land Rover still drives as smooth and quiet as it was when it was purchased, it has no rattles or rust.
I was like you with a very biased attitude towards Land Rovers. I was with Nissan from 1966 to 1999, among other models I had new 620,720, D20,D21 and Q32 Pathfinder 4x4's. I also had many new Patrols many with "Safari" Turbo's fitted and I towed my 6.2 metre Buccaneer all around New Zealand.
I also drove many opposition product during model launches and training events.
Then I got the chance to join Land Rover and boy did I have to swallow my pride and have my eyes opened. I was blown away when I was sent to Australia and attended Land Rover Experience with the Discovery 3 and then tried the other models in the Land Rover/Range Rover Stable. I always thought the Patrol was King but that Land Rover Experience was an eye opener. We did things and went in places in standard off the showroom floor vehicles, that I would never even attempt to point a moderately kitted out Patrol. The jokes I used to tell about Land Rovers, you know the ones about the porcupine? They are so far off the mark it is embarrassing now looking back. And yes I have driven new Porsche Kayen's and VW V10 Toureg's, BMW X5's and the Mercedes ML's, not the standard ones'. The manufacturer's always used to supply the top of the line model with all the fruit when we were doing a comparison with our own products in Australia. One upmanship I think it's called.
The funniest thing I remember and it still keeps coming back to me is I always used to say in my Nissan Day's: "Why the hell would anyone want to drive or be seen in a Range Rover?" It wasn't until I drove a new one in 2004 and had travelled about a kilometre that I realized why you would buy a Range Rover and why you would be seen in one. Then when I got the chance to drive the new Range Rover with the Jaguar V8 engine in it, wow the vehicle was better again. More powerful smother and better fuel economy. The 2014 model is a massive leap again and the new Diesel Electric is yet another story again.

[slidenyo]

i guess they better have there water proofing up to scratch then as diesel/electric sounds like a wading oxymoron.
My neighbour will likely buy one never get it dirty and never take it off road to park alongside his s3 and rr 2 door in pristine condition.
i think landrover has lost there way in providing a cheap utilitarian vehicle that could take place of the family farms tractor if need be.
building high end luxury 4x4's for exceedingly rich toffs to waa about at toff get togethers.
the defender was the last link to the brands true heritage.
cut those ties and it just becomes another luxury item no one but the rich can afford.
i can't see the difference between utilising german or british engines and parts to japanese or american

[Period Look]

I Drive my 1961 Series 2a SWB 88" Every Day of the Week!

Just Love it.

We have a 2010 Toyota Landcruiser Prado with 12 airbags. Wife drives this to keep kid safe. Used to have a LWB TD5 defender but not enough airbags or would have a new one today as the family car. Love them too.

Range Rover? Not for me. Blonde hairdressers car in Dirty North London mate!

[lax2wlg]

Hawkertempest wrote:
It is a well known fact that Toyota purchases the first model of every new Land Rover/Range Rover released and pulls it apart to study how they make them. Even now they still haven't been able to build a better off road/on road vehicle.


And Heeeeeeeere weeee goooo, ready for some soup soup

Hi,
What do you mean by that?

Hi HT,
Appreciate your insight as a dealer principal, its definitely a mesmerizing brand.
Not biased, I like Landies, know them inside and out, well the older ones anyway, can't speak for the new independent suspension stuff models. I've been involved with them since I was 5, and used them offroad extensively.

Just don't really understand when you say Toyota hasn't been able to build a better vehicle, on or off road.

Seems like quite a general statement with no real evidence, but please feel free to prove me wrong

[Disco-Gibbo]

My fave has to be classic Rangerover. 2 door, V8 on carbs, 4 speed box. Just a brilliant bit of design and when new it was years ahead of the competition.

Future - I would love to see LR introduce a small, cheap, easy to fix, basic 4x4. Make a non-emmisions crap basic as hell version to sell in developing countries and to farmers etc... Internal roll cage from factory and masses of options. 3 cly eco-boost Ford type power or Diesel.
Take sales away from Polaris etc.... in the UTV market and away from mainstream car manufacturers too.
Imagine a vehicle as road capable and cheap as a Suzuki swift with the off road ability of a Quad.

Some retro styling cues from the Series 1 wouldn't hurt either. Overall size of an 80inch S1 and use of plastics instead of alloy would keep weight and cost down.
Only problem would be crash protection / airbags.

The big problem is they only sell 25,000 Defenders a year, therefore the vehicle volume is too low and unprofitable.
The next generation Defender has to be sold in the States and has to pass EU emission/safety standards as well to get the volumes up to make it viable. Land Rover have a big problem trying to replace Defender and it looks likely that there could be a couple of years gap between the current models demise and the replacements arrival. Especially after the outcry that occurred following the release of the DC100 concept.
There is also the question of the Military market that the Defender used to have and how do they address that with the new model? So it is not an easy situation for them to solve.

I agree totally with the above.
If only L-R could get the military market on board, added number + kudos.
The trouble with most military markets is that they all have their own ideas on what a good off-roader should be with no idea on how to make them in any volume.
I reckon the DC100 is not far off the mark. It probably should have an alloy chassis, plastic outer guards etc. & a small eco diesel motor, with the key to add-on requirements to suit various users. ie roll bars, winches extended wheelbase etc. L-R have also invested deeply in alloy construction & probably have a march on that + Indian manufacturing sites, where the parent company are based.
I see the defender being like Porsche's 911
Built in small numbers that sell the L-R brand (not on the track, but off-road).
All things that the traditional L-R customer will have to get his head around.

[lax2wlg]

The trouble with most military markets is that they all have their own ideas on what a good off-roader should be with no idea on how to make them in any volume.

Not really, military markets (or the ones that matter anyway) actually have very stringent universal requirements and the reality is 90% of production civilian market vehicles simply do not meet the criteria.

In military applications they are not looking for a 'good offroader.' Dependability and durability are essential, but the main things they are looking for is high mobility & multipurpose. It has to be extremely stable & tractive in all scenarios regardless of cargo loading. It also has to be relatively idiot proof, because the troops aren't going out for a day of recreational 4 wheel driving, the main task at hand is defence, driving comes secondary.

It has to be able to traverse a 35 degree slope with 2 tonnes of cargo on board, resist ballistic attack, be dropped out of planes, reliably wade for hours on end in several feet of water, and cruise for days over really rough undulated terrain at 90km/h. All in a safe, predictable manner with relatively low operator input.

That type of thing puts most 'off road' vehicles on their lid.

[muddymatt1973]

The big problem is they only sell 25,000 Defenders a year

How many UTV (side by sides) are sold every year to users that already have a on-road vehicle? If LR could produce a vehicle that you could drive safely and legally to town to buy milk AND drive across 500 acres of farmland to herd cows then I think they would be onto a winner.

Those polaris/ranger UTV's are not cheap - $15,000 nz plus a Suzuki Swift to go to town in at $19,500 means if LR can supply both in one for under $40K it could work.

(well it does in my imagination) Am I barking alone or does anyone else see my logic????

[Mudde1]

The big problem is they only sell 25,000 Defenders a year

How many UTV (side by sides) are sold every year to users that already have a on-road vehicle? If LR could produce a vehicle that you could drive safely and legally to town to buy milk AND drive across 500 acres of farmland to herd cows then I think they would be onto a winner.

Those polaris/ranger UTV's are not cheap - $15,000 nz plus a Suzuki Swift to go to town in at $19,500 means if LR can supply both in one for under $40K it could work.

(well it does in my imagination) Am I barking alone or does anyone else see my logic????

But if you are on a farm, dad can bring in the cows with the UTV at the same time as mum is at the shops in the swift, and it isn't muddy inside after dad got in the vehicle still wearing his gumboots. You can buy a brand new Suzuki Jimny for under $20,000 which will do what you describe, but they still only sell in small numbers. I can't see how a landrover at double that price would sell well.

[Disco-Gibbo]

The big problem is they only sell 25,000 Defenders a year

How many UTV (side by sides) are sold every year to users that already have a on-road vehicle? If LR could produce a vehicle that you could drive safely and legally to town to buy milk AND drive across 500 acres of farmland to herd cows then I think they would be onto a winner.

Those polaris/ranger UTV's are not cheap - $15,000 nz plus a Suzuki Swift to go to town in at $19,500 means if LR can supply both in one for under $40K it could work.

(well it does in my imagination) Am I barking alone or does anyone else see my logic????

I can see some of your logic Matt.
I believe you are on the right track too with the Polaris / Cam Am Challengers type of machine. I have a farmer mate in the back country of Wairarapa that swears by these things. The only other transport he trusts is horses!
Not so sure that L-R should listen or meet too many of the Military demands - otherwise you end up building a Pinzgauer or Unimog thing. The last time the British Army got involved (Austin Champ) with over engineering & cost blowout - then ended up buying the basic L-R.
Just build a simple all alloy unit in India & keep the models to 1 only. Let 3rd party companies modify/customize them to suit various needs. Keep it light & small as possible & bolt-on replacement bits - including electronic dash & ECU etc.
Use the K.I.S.S. principle Keep-It-Simple-Stupid (no offence intended).
No fancy A/C,metallic paint jobs, chrome, wood grain dashboards, alloy wheels, carpet, stereos, head lining or cruise controls.