Lift & 31's and stuff

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:44 pm

Actually, there is a lot to fitting a winch.

Bigger battery. About as big as can be fitted by just flattening the battery tray. Any bigger means moving other things around. From memory this is a 600CCA or 650CCA.

I wouldn't get one of the screw in/out isolators again either. The green knob is what fell off going into Macetown. I put a hole through the bolt at the bottom with some wire through it to hold it, but next time would put a simple on/off switch in there - like isolation switches in our work vehicles.

Image

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:35 pm

Skid Plates

We finally got some skid plates fitted - front diff, gear box and transfer case. Still needed is one from the front stabiliser bar up to the bottom of the winch bar.

And with the stabiliser bar we got a steering damper fitted.

Image

Image

But, if you look closely, you can see where both CV's bolt on to the drive flanges - yes, finally got the stubby shaft conversion installed.
And if you look even closer, you will see an extra pulley to the side of the engine and some more hoses in front of the radiator. That is our new power steering - my arms neary died at Easter with the low tyre pressures...
You can also see how tucked up the exhaust is.

User avatar
loppee
Hard Yaka
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Rolleston

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby loppee » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:11 pm

Hi Ross
Ya Zuk is looking good next time you have ya Zuk here in chch I can do ya the skid plate you need from the bottom of the winch bumper to the stabiliser bar if ya want only cost to you will be the steel.
Can ya post a photo of the stubby axle mod?
Cheers Woody

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:11 am

Hey Woody

Thanks! Might just take you up on that.

We will be back to take the Vitara out for a good run in February. Definately keen to catch up.

I will try to arrange some better photos of the stubby axle, or I can send through some of the photos I have found on other forums. We are also working on the Hilux CV mod as well - will see if that works or not.

User avatar
loppee
Hard Yaka
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Rolleston

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby loppee » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:11 pm

Sweet mate look forward to catching up.

User avatar
crzyfl
Hard Yaka
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Gore

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby crzyfl » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:58 am

image.jpg
image.jpg (15.51 KiB) Viewed 6553 times


Haven't tried it yet. Today's job.
DISCLAIMER

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:40 pm

Nice!

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:31 pm

Winch... again:

We think we solved our winch problems with an early visit from Santa. A Warn Zeon 10s. Should get this fitted after Christmas.

Image

Anyone interested in buying a working Warn M5000 winch with a burnt out M6000 for parts?

User avatar
skitime
Winch master
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby skitime » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:02 pm

I just got done reading through your thread and thoroughly enjoyed it . I found your path on developing your rig very similar to mine. I have a 97 Geo Tracker with many of the same mods here in the US. I have the Calmini 3 inch suspension OME struts with a 2 " body lift. I have added spring spacers in addition on front and rear. Running the same crawler transfer gears. I did make a twin stick transfer case shifter. Currently running 265/75/16 tires (32x10.50/16) but just sold the 31x10.50/15 tires and wheels. I have the steel front diff carrier with the Calmini anvil with ARBs front and rear. I also have a front winch but found I usually needed a rear winch more so I added a rear one as well. My rock sliders look nearly the same as yours as well. I want to add rear disk brakes like you have and have contacted Ben about them. Keep up the good work and I will be following your thread.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:20 am

Hi Skitime

Thanks for your comments. I have seen your Tracker in a few forums and, as you know, we love your rear bar!

How do you find the spacers on top of the 3" lift - does that take it out to 4"? Any problems with CV angles or busted CVs?

Hope to see you in NZ sometime, there's a lot you can do. We were in the US in September, went and did Rubicon and had a blast.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:39 am

A small update, we have a few small changes planned for the New Year.

Replacing the current body lift with a true 3" set from Bits4Vits
Raising the rock sliders (they were for 2" body lift).
Fitting heavy duty idler arm and brace.
Raising the tow bar and fitting a Hayman Reece detachable tongue.
Upgrading to Hilux CV shafts (if it all comes together)
Fitting the new winch.
And possibly fitting a roll cage. Have been kicking this one around for a while with some of the driving we are doing, and some of the rollover near misses we see that could easily happen to us. Better safe than sorry.

User avatar
skitime
Winch master
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby skitime » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:17 pm

Pico42 wrote:Hi Skitime

Thanks for your comments. I have seen your Tracker in a few forums and, as you know, we love your rear bar!

How do you find the spacers on top of the 3" lift - does that take it out to 4"? Any problems with CV angles or busted CVs?

Hope to see you in NZ sometime, there's a lot you can do. We were in the US in September, went and did Rubicon and had a blast.


I had the spacers in for a few years and probably hundreds of offroad miles without any problems. I would guess I am least 4" maybe more in suspension lift. The CV angles are fairly angled but have not had any problems with the axles. I used to worry about CV angles but I have been running this way for so long, I never really think about it anymore. I am running the Calmini Anvil so I only have to carry one spare axle. Only ever broke one passenger side axle and that was before the Anvil and a lot less lift than I have now. When I added the Anvil, I also added ARBs front and rear. Locked front and rear allows you to be so much easier on equipment since your are not needing momentum to get through slippery or difficult rocky spots. I made my own spacers out of rubber shopping cart wheels with the centers removed with a hole saw. I am also running OME 4 door springs for more lift and a better ride. I measure my lift on the bottom of the steel fender centered over the wheel. I am at 37 3/4 " at that point. I only have a 2" body lift. I prefer less body lift to keep the center of gravity lower. My attached picture shows my current CV angles sitting on the ground as well as the angle of the lower A arm. If I compared the suspension lift to yours I can tell I have more. You might want to try to increasing the suspension lift rather than the body lift. In my book the only reason to body lift is for tire clearance. Raising the body also raises the center of gravity which is not good. I am running 265/75/16 tires which are a 32" tire without any tire rub ever. I am running a wheel with a -5mm offset but with my old 15" tire and wheel the offset was -19mm.

Have you had CV problems? Is that why you are converting to Hilux CV shafts?
Attachments
DSC_6607.jpg
My CV angles with my current setup.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:07 pm

You have given me some things to think about.

We are still unlocked, but expected to get selectable lockers in the next 12 months or so (either ARB or e-lockers). This means we do use "momentum is your friend" quite a lot. We have not had issues with the CV's, but a significant proportion of the research I have done indicates that they become an issue with lift and bigger tyres, especially the ones on the 26 spline shaft we have. We have always tried to anticipate such problems and put rigorous measures in place to address them before they become a problem - especially when it is a relatively well-trodden path.

The other aspect is that I would like to set this vehicle up to reliably run 33's in the future (plus chains). The upgraded CV shafts would likely achieve this, along with perhaps HD rear axles. The diffs, gearbox and transfer case should be good with the various rebuilds and bracings we have given them. But I have to admit some of this work (the hilux CV's in particular) is partly driven by an urge to see if it can be done.

The body lift goes towards providing that clearance, without the attendant issues or increased gentle of gravity associated with a suspension lift of the same size. Certainly our CoG is higher than standard, but between a suspension lift and a body lift of the same height, the CoG increases less with the body lift. Plus the 3" kit we are installing is more because they are full diameter blocks, not the narrow pucks we currently have.

That said, I look at your vehicle and see a level of suspension lift that works and I like that. We still have the Calmini springs and perhaps that should change. This is where we simply need to get some offroad km on the vehicle and feel for how it performs.

User avatar
skitime
Winch master
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby skitime » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:29 am

Where are you getting heavy duty rear axles? The Calmini HD axles are only for the older Trackers. You have the same axle I have. I know because I ordered them and had to send them back. The wanted me to convert my rear to an older rear to uses them. My feeling is the newer Tracker axles like ours are already stronger than the older axles. Calmini lists our year vehicles for their HD axles but they are incorrect.

I feel that if you get a selectable front locker you will find that you will not break the CVs. If you research those that have broken them the vast majority of them if not all are running unlocked. That means they are ramming back and forth to get unstuck or flying over rocks too fast just to get over them causing a spinning wheel to suddenly get traction. Trust me when you get ARBs you can be so much more gentle with equipment. I would suggest that ARBs be your next purchase before going down the road you are thinking of. You may then even reconsider the path to 33s although if you are adding chains clearance could be another story. With the ARBs you will find short of high centering you will be able to move as long as a wheel or two are on the ground. There is nothing wrong with building your rig as strong as possible. I admire that. It just becomes how far is necessary and if you keep building beyond that you will either end up with a trail only rig or a street/trail rig that is not nice to drive on the road. For me I need a dependable offroad rig that is mostly driven on the road. It is a daily driver. Its all in what you want. There is no right or wrong.

User avatar
crzyfl
Hard Yaka
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Gore

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby crzyfl » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:53 am

Interesting. I have broken two long side cvs while locked front and rear within a short timeframe. That was running three inch springs with 2" spacers and those fts struts with spacers too. I've taken out the spacers now but haven't used the truck for a few weeks. The lockers seem to help, but I didn't drive it much offroad before I locked it up.
DISCLAIMER

User avatar
skitime
Winch master
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby skitime » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:52 pm

crzyfl wrote:Interesting. I have broken two long side cvs while locked front and rear within a short timeframe. That was running three inch springs with 2" spacers and those fts struts with spacers too. I've taken out the spacers now but haven't used the truck for a few weeks. The lockers seem to help, but I didn't drive it much offroad before I locked it up.


I run the Calmini Anvil with two drivers side axles or short axles. Perhaps the long axles are weaker??? I really don't think so. I do not run a strut spacer since I have the OME longer struts. How do your CV angles compare to the picture of my CVs? I really don't have an explanation for your breakage except everyone drives differently. What were you doing when they broke?

When I broke an axle I was stuck in a river bed before I had lockers. I was rocking back and forth to try to gain traction but only found the rig sinking deeper and deeper into the river bed. It was fast running water but not really deep but had large rocks. When I got winched out I found I had a broken long side CV.
Attachments
550.jpg
Stuck in the river with a broken axle.

User avatar
churchill
Hard Yaka
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:28 pm
Location: Auckland

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby churchill » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:00 pm

I found that after a lift keeping the camber positive helped make my CV's last longer. Dunno if the front locker helped all that much on it's own as it can really load up one CV but in combination with a rear locker it mights help reduce loads.

User avatar
lax2wlg
Hard Yaka
Posts: 1437
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 8:33 pm
Location: Various areas

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby lax2wlg » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:57 pm

If anything, in a locked scenario, the long side should be stronger since it has more twist.

I think its fair to say that if you lock the front end of any 4x4, you should be prepared to be breaking CVs at some point. Yes driving style is crucial but you cant get away from the fact that you're pretty much doubling the load on everything, and asking it to work in ways it wasnt designed. Plus with all the newfound capability you will most likely want to push your vehicle further.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:26 pm

skitime wrote:Where are you getting heavy duty rear axles? The Calmini HD axles are only for the older Trackers. You have the same axle I have. I know because I ordered them and had to send them back. The wanted me to convert my rear to an older rear to uses them. My feeling is the newer Tracker axles like ours are already stronger than the older axles. Calmini lists our year vehicles for their HD axles but they are incorrect.


I don't have an answer to that yet - yes, our axles are the newer single piece for which there is no Calmini option. And I don't want to go back to the older design as I would also need the different disc brake kit. But there was a guy on Auszookers who made axles as part of a fully floating kit.

Something for me to keep looking into should we ever step up to 33's.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:30 pm

skitime wrote:...
I feel that if you get a selectable front locker you will find that you will not break the CVs. If you research those that have broken them the vast majority of them if not all are running unlocked. That means they are ramming back and forth to get unstuck or flying over rocks too fast just to get over them causing a spinning wheel to suddenly get traction. Trust me when you get ARBs you can be so much more gentle with equipment. I would suggest that ARBs be your next purchase before going down the road you are thinking of. You may then even reconsider the path to 33s although if you are adding chains clearance could be another story. With the ARBs you will find short of high centering you will be able to move as long as a wheel or two are on the ground. There is nothing wrong with building your rig as strong as possible. I admire that. It just becomes how far is necessary and if you keep building beyond that you will either end up with a trail only rig or a street/trail rig that is not nice to drive on the road. For me I need a dependable offroad rig that is mostly driven on the road. It is a daily driver. Its all in what you want. There is no right or wrong.


We had put off the lockers for the time being as I understand Harrop in Melbourne is working on an e-locker suitable for Vitara's. Giving it some time to see if they are a decent option - we were impressed with their simplicity and lack of noise at Rubicon.
http://www.auszookers.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=43159

That said, we may also be working incrementally towards air lockers - there is a suitable compressor going in shortly.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:32 pm

Winch, again...

New winch installed. Looks very subtle. It filled the winch bar right up - the fairlead had to be bolted in with countersunk bolts to give enough room. That is the intergrated controller on the top. We retained the in-cab controls.

Image

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:35 pm

... and we have finally decided to remove the rear seats for more room - if we have kids, we now get another vehicle:

Image

You can see the new PRS radio too. May watch that for water levels... we have had water that high inside the cab.

User avatar
crzyfl
Hard Yaka
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Gore

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby crzyfl » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:53 pm

Pico,
mind giving some details about your power steering upgrade?
DISCLAIMER

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:23 am

crzyfl wrote:Pico,
mind giving some details about your power steering upgrade?


Will do, once I lay hands on it.

In the meantime, here is something else that has been in the pipeline, courtesy of BenT...

Image

That is a Toyota CV and free-wheel hub fitted to a Vitara knuckle. Hopefully installed soon for some real world testing.
Last edited by Pico42 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
loppee
Hard Yaka
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Rolleston

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby loppee » Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:41 am

That looks real good have to let me know how it goes.
Cheers Woody.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:11 pm

crzyfl wrote:Pico,
mind giving some details about your power steering upgrade?


Sure.

It is a bolt-in second-hand unit from a Vitara that has power steering from factory. Three main parts:

Fluid reservoir, bolts to the side of the radiator:
Image

Power steering pump. This bolts to the side of the engine and is driven by a belt from the main pulley. Ours is a ribbed belt, but I think earlier models had the V-belt.
Image

Power steering box. Apparently this required replacement of the steering shaft (or at least the lower part) as it is a bit longer to fit with the power steering box. This also meant our steering shaft spacers were no longer required.
Image
Last edited by Pico42 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:21 pm

Body Lift, again:

We have replaced the 2" plus body lift with a set of full size 3" blocks from Bits4Vits. On their website it looked to be a much more rigorous kit and this is borne out by looking at it in the flesh. Single piece blocks that are a direct replacement for the factory body blocks, in particular the full diameter and the moulding to fit the chassis mounts.

Image

The above photo shows one of the blocks installed. It is a full 90mm top to bottom of the lift block. For comparison I included a tape measure, one of the factory pucks and one of the 50mm MDPE lift blocks. The puck is 15mm and the 2" lift block is (surprise surprise) 50mm. When I had those installed, I also had 2 x 6mm steel spacers between the puck and the MDPE block which gives a total of about 62mm body lift. We are now at 75mm body lift. I cannot recall a single time our wheels rubbed in the arches during the past three weeks of 4WDing. Have not yet tested that clearance with chains fitted, especially the icebreakers with their V-bars...
Last edited by Pico42 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:46 pm

And after a tussle with a tree stump, we also strengthened the side of the body mounts on the chassis with some bracing as below. This also shows the bottom of the body lift kit and the mounts for the rock sliders.

Before:
Image

After:
Image
Last edited by Pico42 on Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:56 pm

Out of interest we also got the vehicle weighed at the local transfer station weighbridge:

With 3/4 tank of fuel, no 4WD gear (tyre chains, strops, shackles, pulley block, tools, ground anchor, spade, jack block, spare parts, winch extensions etc) and driverless, it weighs...

1370kg.

Standard, I think they are supposed to weigh 1000kg at the kerb. Our main sources of extra weight are winch, winch bar, skid plates, rock sliders, armoured sills, brush bars, roll bar and tyres.

But, by the time we put all our normal 4WD gear in their (easily another 100kg - 200kg with tools, two sets of chains and ground anchor) and a driver/passenger, our total weight will be around the 1700kg mark.

Who ate all the pies!

And with a decent load of luggage, 4WD gear, fuel etc, we use about 13 litres of fuel per 100km (Chch - Seddon). Our 5 litre XR8 Falcon Ute only uses 11 litres per 100km!
Last edited by Pico42 on Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Pico42
Hard Yaka
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Queenstown

Re: Lift & 31's and stuff

Postby Pico42 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:10 pm

Roll Bar / Brush Bars:

We had been toying with the idea of extra protection in the form of a roll bar in case we had a bad day. After some discussion with Rick, he suggested a separate internal roll bar (to stop us getting killed in a roll-over) and external brush bars (to take those everyday knocks, scrapes and bumps you get in supermarket carparks...)

So, now we have brush bars running from the bottom of the A-Pillar up to the roof, along the edge of the roof line and to the end of the C-Pillar.

Image

... and an internal 4 point roll bar - remember us taking out the rear seats for more room? And for the more refined amongst you, it is painted daffodil yellow. A sort of colour scheme that started with the OME shocks/struts.

Image

Also in this photo you can see the seat covers - made up out of heavy duty canvas.

Collectively, the different bit of armour have changed our driving. Instead of avoiding getting too close to trees and the like to avoid panel damage, we find we can now take better lines closer to such trees without fear of damage from tickling the tree itself. And that better line can mean you don't touch anyway - it is often a confidence factor.

And the skid plates - we actually pirouetted the truck on rocks with the skid plates in a few places on the Westport tracks to get a better line along the track, especially on Tailings. Front diff is protected. Gearbox is protected. Transfer case is protected. You plan on dragging the rear diff a little, but can usually avoid direct contact with the diff head.
Last edited by Pico42 on Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Return to “Suzuki”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests