have your say ch ch .................

[yeti]

[tallsam66]

Bugga....been looking forward to this meeting & have a vast list of questions about this but have just realised ill be in aussie that week .

[yeti]

Bugga....been looking forward to this meeting & have a vast list of questions about this but have just realised ill be in aussie that week .

tis a shame trev.....was looking forward to you having a say come q&a time..

[tallsam66]

Bugga....been looking forward to this meeting & have a vast list of questions about this but have just realised ill be in aussie that week .

tis a shame trev.....was looking forward to you having a say come q&a time..

Ill be giving a list of my enquires to someone so my thoughts on the matter will still be heard.
Once i have
them typed up ill send you a copy wayne.

[yeti]

nice...post em in here to......

[Twodiffs]

I'm really hoping they allow for a decent Q&A time....not just spiel on about their agenda and just allow 30mins for discussion or q&a from the floor .

[SV1K]

Ensure that you record the Q&A time, it is always good to have a accurate record of what has been said.

Reece

[tallsam66]

Ensure that you record the Q&A time, it is always good to have a accurate record of what has been said.

Reece

Good idea ....maybe post on you tube for all to see ..but i suspect the people running the meeting wont be too keen on that tho.

[yeti]

had a yarn to Rick Crosby today. ..hes keen to be like our spokesman...so if ok by you felles fire ya questions in here or pm them to me...this will help with the time when it comes to q/a ........ricks done a bit of homework about this card thing and has a idea or two......

cheers Wayne

[Twodiffs]

I suggest pm'ing questions to someone as opposed to putting them up on here, They won't allow one individual to stand up and ask 50 questions though.

[yeti]

I suggest pm'ing questions to someone as opposed to putting them up on here, They won't allow one individual to stand up and ask 50 questions though.

pm them through ...ricks gonna post in here soon...

[4wdRick]

Hi Guys

I don't get much of a chance to get on here often.

I have been battling this subject for a while with mixed success after lots of e-mails and traveling to Dunedin.
What most people don’t realise is that this will DIRECTLY AFFECT THEIR DAILY DRIVE. The hot rodders and rally cars that we are trying to be lumped in with do not use them to pick up the kids or tow a boat.

I am the representative for 4x4 Events (NZ4WDA) and my business at this meeting and will also ask any legitimate questions that any one may have.

What we need to show the LVVTA that we are serious is lots of legally lifted vehicles and people at the meeting.
There is only room for 150 people, but the presence of 4wders is what we need (NOT BULLY TACTICS)

For those that can be bothered reading this is one of my e-mails sent to Tony, president of the New Zealand 4wd Association on the 21st October 2011.

Hi Tony

Hell yes we have better ideas, 3 areas are the problem and need to be addressed.
1. WOF
2. Certification
3. Police

The major one. As a Wof agent I have no idea what mods were certified (except for the pathetic description on the cert plate) e.g. what size tyres was it certified on? Did it have sway bars? to many modified trucks and cars are on the road illegally. The cert plate on many vehicles is full and many mods cannot be listed. I know of people changing their vehicle after it is certed because there is no way to tell if the mod was done before or after the cert.
To fix this problem the certification photos and info must be made available to us on the Wof website when we do our test for us to do our job correctly and accurately. We don’t need a large cert plate, just the authorising number. Everything can be done on line, this is the 21st century, then vehicle owners can’t cheat the system.

The certification issuers have no guide or specific figures for vehicle roll pitch, it comes down to how they feel it handles which can change daily.
To fix this a g-meter must be used to get an accurate reading of a vehicles handling with specifications given, an app for an Iphone would work.

The police have no idea what vehicles are illegal and what should be kicked off the road.
To fix this the police need a brief course of what a vehicle is and how it works (low boy racer stuff to big trucks)(if the other 2 problems were fixed then it would be a whole lot easier) and access to the cert info.

If these were addressed then anyone (my grandmother) should be able to get in to any vehicle and drive it safely

The rules that you are proposing will only hurt the honest drivers and not stop the boy racers that are giving us a bad name from being idiots.

These problems and solutions are the results of discussions with professionals (including the police) and not just my opinion.

I asked to be on this board and was turned down.

Regards
Rick Crosbie
President
4x4 Events inc
Serious Off-road Fun

PH 03 365 1909 EM rick@4wdaccessories.co.nz

[pressy]

very well put and great solutions also rick sorry i cant make it to the meetings unless it is in the weekend to support the 4wds. but keep up the good work. if there is anything i can do sing out?

tony

[zephyrheaven]

Hi Yeti, do you have a pdf or something of this picture / file so I can print a few out - nobody I know knows anything about it & some of them are in this business so could be helpful along with Rick

[yeti]

Hi Yeti, do you have a pdf or something of this picture / file so I can print a few out - nobody I know knows anything about it & some of them are in this business so could be helpful along with Rick

yeah will pm the email rick sent........

need numbers there.....whos going to go ......

[Twodiffs]

Hi Yeti, do you have a pdf or something of this picture / file so I can print a few out - nobody I know knows anything about it & some of them are in this business so could be helpful along with Rick

yeah will pm the email rick sent........

need numbers there.....whos going to go ......

There WILL be numbers there don't worry, Clubs had priority notification.

[yeti]

sweet ..still a lot of us aren't in clubs ...so spread the word...

[tallsam66]

NZ4WD Assn wasnt too keen on non club members coming but seeing as Wayne has let the cat out of the bag so to speak more the merrier ...i have a feeling the hall can only hold 150 so get there early.

[Mudde1]

There are a couple of points that I need to make clear here. Firstly this meeting was arranged (and funded) by NZFWDA for the benefit of Combined 4 Wheel Drive club members. It was not intended to be a public event; we have however decided to allow other interested parties to attend in the interests of ensuring that everyone has a chance to receive factual information.
I also need to point out that certifiers are appointed by Land Transport NZ, not LVVTA and certainly not NZFWDA who have absolutely no influence on the appointment of certifiers. We will not be able to discuss the appointment or removal of certifiers during the meeting.
Tony Burgess
President NZFWDA.

[tallsam66]

At the press conference today about the preposed changes to WOF testing Associate Transport Minister Simon Bridges stated " about 0.4 per cent of all fatal and injury crashes have vehicle factors cited as the sole cause."
This being the case unsafe vehicles are hardly a massive cause for concern... So where is the big push for limiting suspension heights coming from ????

[zephyrheaven]

At the press conference today about the preposed changes to WOF testing Associate Transport Minister Simon Bridges stated " about 0.4 per cent of all fatal and injury crashes have vehicle factors cited as the sole cause."
This being the case unsafe vehicles are hardly a massive cause for concern... So where is the big push for limiting suspension heights coming from ????

I was a little miffed - I still havent heard back from anybody at LTNZ & MOT (yes that exists again) and the NZ Police about fatalities / accident figures from 'raised' vehicles - probably busy in Wellington

[tallsam66]

Is on tonight !!!!!!
Wish i could be there but am in aus at moment.

[4wdRick]

Hope everyone that is available will be there.

[basics]

keep us updated for the ones who cant make it

cheers guys

[xj]

anything interesting occur?

[petefj40]

anything interesting occur?

I couldn't stay long.
The LVVTA seemed pretty polished while I was there. So polished in fact that I'd say anything that us boys brought up would be squashed by them pretty fast.
But again I wasn't there for the whole meeting. I had to leave early. So I'm interested in hearing the feedback on here too.

[yeti]

anything interesting occur?

yeah a lot of angry people.......

still don't know what size said lift would be ...100 is just a number they are using as a example ..maybe more may be less..more info needed and to get more info as it be comes available ya will need to be in the tonys association....brought the house down that comment..where as everyone is all for the safety of our trucks on the road the authority card is a joke and how the fark it would make trucks safer is well
trucks certed job done not cert ed shouldn't be on the road.....

good turn out ,,hope others comment

cheers
wayne

[tycho]

Ill try and summarise from memory but there will be others that recorded the meeting. The first hour or so was presented by LVVTA , Tony Johnson was informative and entertaining as he gave an overview of LVVTAs work, history, staff etc etc. After a short break things went downhill. LVVTA did not seem to have a grasp of some key information such as the large number of SI 4wders who do not, or do not wish to belong to NZ4WDA. A couple of attendees tried to get clarification on what vehicle crash statistics this proposal is in response to but there does not appear to be any substantial suspension lift related fatality numbers out there. Similarly a couple of business owners who perform suspension upgrades spoke to the relatively low percentage of recreational 4wders who they do work for with the majority being modifications to work related vehicles, also hunters, fishers etc. The four inch number that had been bandied about prior soon receded and was replaced with 120, 200 and 250mm as the evening progressed with Tony trying to stress that no number had been set and it would be set set at such a level as to only apply to a very small percentage of vehicles. There was some mixed responses to queries about family members, staff etc using an authority card vehicle and I don't think it was clarified. There was some talk of the annual card not being renewed if the holder bought 4wding into disrepute through their 4wd actions. Feedback was given to Tony that it would be a relatively simple rig to build to test the tip angle of a vehicle and this has been used overseas for decades ( I remember seeing a pic of an old double decker bus being tested on such a rig). The hot rod authority card appears to have been a response and work around to a law requiring fenders it sounds like it has grown over time to encompass other items. Of course there is no current law that we are trying to work around. The meeting seemed to be called to an abrupt end. From my perspective if a vehicle is lifted to such an extent that it is unsafe on NZ roads then this should be (fairly and consistently) assessed and dealt with at the certification level. In my opinion to give an individual an exemption to drive what would otherwise be considered an unsafe vehicle in the hands of any other NZ drivers licence holder would be like giving a motorcycle club member a card to ride a motorcycle that has sub standard brakes or a kit car club member a card to drive a vehicle with poor steering. Surely suspension, steering and brake performance should never be compromised on our roads???

[tycho]

Howdy
After the meeting I sent Tony my thoughts, a copy of my post above and a suggestion to use load cells to measure weight transfer for a vehicle on a set incline which would be an easy and cost effective way to come up with a measure of a vehicle's centre of mass in relation to its wheel track.

Anyways got a response back from Tony today in which he states that after the meeting he has decided to step back from it and rethink along the lines of practical ways of assessing stability. This via some sort of static rollover threshold or computer/smartphone accelerometer based application. Thus I think we can safely say that there will be no fixed cut off threshold for lift height but rather each vehicle will be assessed individually.

Great response from Tony and a good indication that LVVTA have not predetermined any outcome but are still working on ideas and options.

[slide]

Thanks tycho for your report.
Would have been interesting to be there, but am a bit far away...
Glad to hear they're having a re-assessment of things.
I think it is potentially a good idea, but would need a lot of issues ironed out before they can start to apply the card system.