Rust Remover - does it work?

[cbfb]

Rust is getting at my truck a bit so I'm going to take the barwork and any obvious bits off and give it a paint.

Am going to have a sandblasting gun to use for fiddly bits and obviously grinder, sandpaper etc but just wondered what people's experience with rust remover is?

e.g. http://www.hammerite.co.nz/products/rus ... er_gel.jsp

Is it worth bothering with?

I'm going to spray it (gun not cans) and won't go easy with the coats, I want it to last.

Last thing I want though is painting it then it going rusty again in a few months (has happened to me before)

How do I get the prep right first time?

[Crash bandicoot]

CAn't remember the name of the stuff, I watched an engineer use it on a a truck chassi. he painted it on (the rusty area) and after about 20 minutes he whacked it with a hammer and the entire lot dropped to the ground leaving the area bare steel

It had a very acrid smell like an acid of some sort.

[cbfb]

Hmmm wonder what that was, apparently hydrochloric acid is good but where the hell you get that I don't know. Last time I tried to buy acid was for tanning animal skins, turns out I didn't know at the time that's what they use for cooking meth I must have sounded real dodgy

I like the idea of using a chemical to get into the pores that even the sandblaster can't get at. Evil stuff rust it's eating my truck infront of my eyes

[coxsy]

A dude in Aussie uses this mix for parts
The outside it is easy to strip off the paint and rust, but the inside is another story. So will throw it into my white vinegar and citric acid solution for a while to clean it up.

[Gyxx]

Most of the proper rust converters use phosphoric acid as the key ingredient. I like POR15 but there's other brands that are probably just as good.

[meatc]

Mate recently found a rust converter, etch, bonder in one. 2 pack stuff that was nuclear green when mixed but was recommended to him to pour down the inside of the chassis rails etc to kill and bond any rust. Cant remember what it was called but can find out.

Problem with acid washes is making sure you neutralise it properly. Seen ute tray sides sprayed with acid to kill the rust and not cleaned off properly and with 12 months the acid had eaten more of the steel than the rust would have.

[Heath]

I use rust converter. Paint it on (milky white) and it turns a dark colour (bluey black or purple) as it activates. Doesn't get rid of the rust but stabilises it (could be wrong) and stops the oxidising/rusting so it can be painted. Best to remove as much of the loose flaky stuff as possible before using.


Buggered if I know how you would do the inside of chassis rails though.

[cbfb]

Thanks all sounds like it is worth doing but my experiences before with it as some have said is getting rid of it once it's done its job. Had a horrible reaction once and the whole topcoat peeled off, put it down to the converter. Wass only painting a shovel fro the truck so didnt matter but imagine how pissed off you'd be if it was a big panel you'd done and $100 worth of paint...

I am thinking of going POR15, I hear nothing but good things. And when I get a boat I can use it for that too. Anyone know a supplier in Palmy?

Mate recently found a rust converter, etch, bonder in one. 2 pack stuff that was nuclear green when mixed but was recommended to him to pour down the inside of the chassis rails etc to kill and bond any rust. Cant remember what it was called but can find out.

Can you leave this shit on? That would be awesome for the bits I can't get too. If you can find out I would appreciate it.

[Craydiver]

Don't have the huge experience of 4wding like many on this forum, but finally something I can answer (being a Metallurgical engineer by profession)
There is only 1 way of ensuring you don't get rust reoccurring:
clean to absolute bare metal, ensure the surface is completely free of any salt, oil, and other contaminate, then prime coat etc.(or galv)
Fundamental rule: to stop Carbon steel "rusting" in our typical environment you need to effectively remove oxygen and water.
All these "Rust"removers etc may help to either assist with breaking down the scale,"rust" etc, or like with Phosphoric acid also create a thin protective coating, after wards, but to create long term soln they too need to be removed and a long term protection applied.
Heavy rust - mechanical removal my rec (can use strong acids eg HCl-hydrochloric) - but HCl attacks both the rust and underlying metal at similar rates - so needs total removal at some point.
Light rust - phosphoric acid solns - dissolves the rust quickly and slower to dissolve the base metal, then forms thin but durable iron phosphate layer - if this layer is never disturbed then its ok protection,(eg inside of car doors) however if the layer can be damaged/cracked in any way, then you should be also completely cleaning this and coating with something.
To be honest once rust starts - eg body panels - its bloody hard to be completely removed- it will always be a matter of slowing it down
Sorry for the science lesson.
So to answer the question: Rust remover - does it work?
Sort of - but most importantly - it doesn't necessarily arrest future rust.

[fish]

Don't have the huge experience of 4wding like many on this forum, but finally something I can answer (being a Metallurgical engineer by profession)
There is only 1 way of ensuring you don't get rust reoccurring:
clean to absolute bare metal, ensure the surface is completely free of any salt, oil, and other contaminate, then prime coat etc.(or galv)
Fundamental rule: to stop Carbon steel "rusting" in our typical environment you need to effectively remove oxygen and water.
All these "Rust"removers etc may help to either assist with breaking down the scale,"rust" etc, or like with Phosphoric acid also create a thin protective coating, after wards, but to create long term soln they too need to be removed and a long term protection applied.
Heavy rust - mechanical removal my rec (can use strong acids eg HCl-hydrochloric) - but HCl attacks both the rust and underlying metal at similar rates - so needs total removal at some point.
Light rust - phosphoric acid solns - dissolves the rust quickly and slower to dissolve the base metal, then forms thin but durable iron phosphate layer - if this layer is never disturbed then its ok protection,(eg inside of car doors) however if the layer can be damaged/cracked in any way, then you should be also completely cleaning this and coating with something.
To be honest once rust starts - eg body panels - its bloody hard to be completely removed- it will always be a matter of slowing it down
Sorry for the science lesson.
So to answer the question: Rust remover - does it work?
Sort of - but most importantly - it doesn't necessarily arrest future rust.

good answer, i think the best cure for rust is an angle grinder.

ive used rust converters on surface rust and it works well, goes black and you can sand and paint it up. i painted my hilux with rust guard and it was great.

[tuk]

I use this loctite product at work, i dont have the money in the budget to get these panels repaired or replaced so we tried this and it has stopped it in its tracks, had rusted right thru in places.

Work with fertiliser so anything and everything rusts here!

[cbfb]

Don't have the huge experience of 4wding like many on this forum, but finally something I can answer (being a Metallurgical engineer by profession)
There is only 1 way of ensuring you don't get rust reoccurring:
clean to absolute bare metal, ensure the surface is completely free of any salt, oil, and other contaminate, then prime coat etc.(or galv)
Fundamental rule: to stop Carbon steel "rusting" in our typical environment you need to effectively remove oxygen and water.
All these "Rust"removers etc may help to either assist with breaking down the scale,"rust" etc, or like with Phosphoric acid also create a thin protective coating, after wards, but to create long term soln they too need to be removed and a long term protection applied.
Heavy rust - mechanical removal my rec (can use strong acids eg HCl-hydrochloric) - but HCl attacks both the rust and underlying metal at similar rates - so needs total removal at some point.
Light rust - phosphoric acid solns - dissolves the rust quickly and slower to dissolve the base metal, then forms thin but durable iron phosphate layer - if this layer is never disturbed then its ok protection,(eg inside of car doors) however if the layer can be damaged/cracked in any way, then you should be also completely cleaning this and coating with something.
To be honest once rust starts - eg body panels - its bloody hard to be completely removed- it will always be a matter of slowing it down
Sorry for the science lesson.
So to answer the question: Rust remover - does it work?
Sort of - but most importantly - it doesn't necessarily arrest future rust.

Thanks man, awesome reply. I will clean mechanically down to bare metal as you suggested.

But from what you said, I have to wonder whether using rust remover is going to be a benefit (getting into the pores in the metal) or is just going to be another contaminant that I need to remove.

Do you have any recommendations for a solvent to use for removing oil, grease, polish etc etc prior to priming? I was thinking of using POR15's Marine Clean as they seem to have a good reputation.

[cbfb]

p.s. Sorry to bother you again Craydiver but what's your advice for inside chassis rails etc?

I use the truck on the beach most weekends so I am paranoid about it rotting away from the inside as you could imagine.

[Craydiver]

p.s. Sorry to bother you again Craydiver but what's your advice for inside chassis rails etc? .

Inside chassis rail?- rather difficult - best option is to apply a phos acid treatment in there - ideally before the chassis has been exposed to too much salt air.
the difficulty is to get complete soln coverage: unless you can strip the chassis to enable you to literally pour the soln in and rotate chassis etc.

Do you have any recommendations for a solvent to use for removing oil, grease, polish etc prior to priming? I was thinking of using POR15's Marine Clean as they seem to have a good reputation.

yes this would be fine - the key is to ensure solvents when stored are not exposed to air too long - they absorb water - ie the solvent that's sat in garage for last few yrs good for pre clean - but use the new stuff for final clean.

[cbfb]

Yeah it's a difficult one alright, I was thinking of using my paraffin gun to get stuff down there, maybe even spraying some old oil or something just to slow it down??? Have used fishoilene in the past that seems to hold off the salt for a while although you have to let it set before going on the beach otherwise your underside just turns to sandpapaer lol


OK thanks will be doing a lot of work in one go so hopefully won't go off but will bear in mind.

Appreciate your help.

[Mattman]

As craydiver said the rust will return if any metal is unprotected. At seams and joins and repairs this is critical. No product can protect bare metal.

The only real way to remove the rust is to remove the metal that is damaged. Wherever possible I leave as much metal in place. If I can grind down rather than cut out I do. I use a dremel to clean out the pits on deep surface rust before filling and priming and final paint.

When doing repair sections think about access to the repair section from both sides. You need to be able to clean all the areas affected by the weld and then prime and seam seal.

If access is difficult or a repair quite challenging I use por15 but again you still really need to clean the surface as much as possible and then liberally cover. This applies to both sides of the panel.

Matt

Doing some repair work on an old Mercedes at the moment and the bottom of the doors is a good candidate for por15. Around the weather strip holes and the drain holes this is some rusting. Clean it up on both sides and por15 which should halt or really slow the rusting. Its not worth and greater sort of repair at the moment.

Matt.

[Craydiver]

maybe even spraying some old oil or something just to slow it down???

yep oil works to a degree, plenty of people used to fill hollow section on boat trailers with oil to avoid internal rusting. it is in the end all about -slowing down rust