Questions about Road User Charges / RUC

User avatar
Slideways
Hard Yaka
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wellington

Questions about Road User Charges / RUC

Postby Slideways » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:15 pm

What happens when a diesel with broken odometer and high km's is swapped for a working odometer with lower k's. What happens with the RUC?

I know for a fact that the truck Im getting is well behind on its RUC and the km's were recorded at the last wof yeaaaars ago when it was already behind by a lot, so it must be on record that it has travelled more than the RUC is paid up to. But what happens when I put the other odometer/speedo in with much less k's, does the odometer have to be adjusted?

It'd obviously look dodgey as hell if its dropped well below the RUC records but what option is there?
Last edited by Slideways on Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
1985 Toyota Landcruiser BJ73 with 13B-T

User avatar
Jezza
Hard Yaka
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Christchurch

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Jezza » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:30 pm

get a drill and wind it forward, you have to pay the rucs anyway
Isuzu Mu 3.1TD

User avatar
Slideways
Hard Yaka
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wellington

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Slideways » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:43 am

Jezza wrote:get a drill and wind it forward, you have to pay the rucs anyway



Yeah Im prepared to pay the RUC's either way. How does the drill work to wind it forwards?
1985 Toyota Landcruiser BJ73 with 13B-T

User avatar
Slideways
Hard Yaka
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wellington

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Slideways » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:43 am

Slideways wrote:
Jezza wrote:get a drill and wind it forward, you have to pay the rucs anyway



Yeah Im prepared to pay the RUC's either way. How does the drill work to wind it forwards?


Oh wait Im guessing you mean just connect it to the speedo cable input of the guage.. :lol:
1985 Toyota Landcruiser BJ73 with 13B-T

User avatar
KiwiBacon
Hard Yaka
Posts: 963
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wet Coast

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby KiwiBacon » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:46 am

There must be a beraucratic way to sort it out changes in the odometer. Because trucks and trailers must damage hubodometers semi-regularly.

User avatar
tweake
Hard Yaka
Posts: 2212
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:00 pm
Location: start of northland

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby tweake » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:33 pm

afaik you take them to special repair shop and they will correct the readings.

how that works with modern ECU controlled counters beats me.

User avatar
3VILC
Hard Yaka
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:00 pm
Location: Welcome Bay

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby 3VILC » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:52 pm

Hubos c**p out all the time, but they have a serial number stamped into them when you replace one you give them the end reading of the old and the serial number and reading of new (even a new hubo usually doesnt start at 0). There must be a similar method for vehicles like ours that read off the odo. Not much help sorry, but check with vtnz
-------------------------------------------------
Newly brought currently bog standard Discovery V8i with a drinking problem :lol:

User avatar
DaveM
Hard Yaka
Posts: 3249
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: Blenheim

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby DaveM » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:55 pm

I thought it was just a matter of taking the vehicle to VTNZ or similar and having them change it in the database, and RUC's were adjusted accordingly.

User avatar
long
Hard Yaka
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: Foxton
Contact:

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby long » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:59 pm

Take your 4x4 into the local testing station as well as your new speedo they will then send a fax through to land transport stating the ks on both speedos and when you get there ok on it you can just swap over speedos with out the speedo haveing to be moved forward .
Im waiting on my approval now from LSTA for my new speedo so i can fit it.
Also you could get one of the 3 approved companys to alter your new speedo up to your existing ks but you will have to wait for it to be done it took 14 weeks to get the new speedo for my Ssangyoung to get moved back up to where it should be mean time the ks i traveled in that time were not recorded on the new speedo.
Terrano TD 2.7 and a ssangyong Rexton

User avatar
Slideways
Hard Yaka
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wellington

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Slideways » Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:50 am

Well I just got the new landcruiser back to my place last night so this weekend I'll figure out why the current odometer/speedo isn't working then go from there. What a pain though! Wouldn't it be easier to have a diesel tax added to each litre instead? (don't shoot me...i know there are enough taxes already :? ).


Good to know there is the option of using the other speedo either way. If it comes to it I'll get VTNZ *shudders* to sort it out or point me in the right direction. 8)
1985 Toyota Landcruiser BJ73 with 13B-T

User avatar
KiwiBacon
Hard Yaka
Posts: 963
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wet Coast

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby KiwiBacon » Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:28 am

Slideways wrote:Wouldn't it be easier to have a diesel tax added to each litre instead? (don't shoot me...i know there are enough taxes already :? ).


I'll leave it up to the farmers, fisherman, contractors and construction industry to beat you over that one. :D

User avatar
Fourbyfour
Hard Yaka
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:00 pm

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Fourbyfour » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:09 pm

KiwiBacon wrote:
Slideways wrote:Wouldn't it be easier to have a diesel tax added to each litre instead? (don't shoot me...i know there are enough taxes already :? ).


I have often wondered the same thing myself,with the antequated way these charges are collected leaves an open invitation for people to get out of paying it. A few years ago I worked out that if the Government added 5 cents per litre they would be actually making money out of it for a vehicle the size of my Surf. It just seems so ludicrous that a Government (any Government) would expect people to be honest when they themselves are not. Administration of these Ruc's must be a nightmare as well as being an exercise in futility.

User avatar
tallsam66
Hard Yaka
Posts: 1851
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: Christchurch

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby tallsam66 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:20 am

RUC are here to stay....the govertment will most likely make you pay them on all vehicles (petrol, lpg, cng, hybrid,electric, hyrogen) at some stage. As vehicles get more efficient & start using other forms of power the actual total road tax take is declining.They need a way to maintain there take so they can fund roading etc....someone driving an electric only car doesnt pay anything towards the cost of road maintainance.

User avatar
KiwiBacon
Hard Yaka
Posts: 963
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wet Coast

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby KiwiBacon » Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:55 am

Fourbyfour wrote:
KiwiBacon wrote:
Slideways wrote:Wouldn't it be easier to have a diesel tax added to each litre instead? (don't shoot me...i know there are enough taxes already :? ).


I have often wondered the same thing myself,with the antequated way these charges are collected leaves an open invitation for people to get out of paying it. A few years ago I worked out that if the Government added 5 cents per litre they would be actually making money out of it for a vehicle the size of my Surf. It just seems so ludicrous that a Government (any Government) would expect people to be honest when they themselves are not. Administration of these Ruc's must be a nightmare as well as being an exercise in futility.


I think you've got your maths wrong.
If your surf gets 10km/l and you're currently paying ~4c/km in RUC then the govt would need to add ~40c/litre to break even.
Because diesel is used for heating, power generation, agriculture, construction etc it would lead to a very complex system to claim back the tax for offroad vehicles.

I would support RUC being applied to all vehicles on an axle weight basis. This would only have to change petrol and lpg as they're the only fuels currently taxed at the pump for road use.

User avatar
darinz
Hard Yaka
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Whangarei

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby darinz » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:28 am

Yeah, but make it really easy and at WOF time your speedo is recorded and you get a bill for anything not paid for. That way if you don't buy them you still get charged without the hassle of worrying about tickets etc. Afterall you get reminded about WOF and reg so tying it into one of those would be easier. You could then have the option of paying on a regular basis like current RUC so that those that do big km or on tight budgets can still manage things.
Nissan Terrano coilovers, turboed VH45, Safari axles, and some other stuff.

User avatar
Rural53
Hard Yaka
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Tauranga

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Rural53 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:16 am

Technically any vehicle that uses a fuel that is not taxed at the pump, not just diesel vehicles, is required to pay road user charges. So if you have a 100% electric car (ie one you charge up from the wall) or a coal fired steam car you should be paying road user charges.

I support weight based RUCs. If 4c/km adds 40c a litre think how much a litre would be added to recover revenue from a truck running RUC at 50c to $1 per km. If they went to taxed at the pump system for diesel people, like us, with light diesels would be screwed.

ActyonMan
Bush Crasher
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:45 pm
Location: Burnham, Canterbury, New Zealand

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby ActyonMan » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:35 am

Another problem/disadvantage with RUC (vs tax/litre) is that your effective fuel tax rate increases as your fuel efficiency increases. Consider the following.

If you pay $45, say, per 1000 km RUC and get 10L/100 km you pay 45c/Litre tax.
If you pay $45, say, per 1000 km RUC and get 8L/100 km you pay 56c/Litre tax. :!: :x :!:

Small diesel vehicles would be better of paying fuel tax at the pump as it is perverse that the less fuel you use the more tax you pay.

Users of diesel for other purposes (heating, construction, farming etc) could claim back their tax - this would be simpler and easier than RUC.

User avatar
KiwiBacon
Hard Yaka
Posts: 963
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wet Coast

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby KiwiBacon » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:59 pm

darinz wrote:Yeah, but make it really easy and at WOF time your speedo is recorded and you get a bill for anything not paid for. That way if you don't buy them you still get charged without the hassle of worrying about tickets etc. Afterall you get reminded about WOF and reg so tying it into one of those would be easier. You could then have the option of paying on a regular basis like current RUC so that those that do big km or on tight budgets can still manage things.


They do that apparently.
Go for a WOF with expired RUC and you get a letter in the mail. I've never got it, but mates have.

User avatar
Fourbyfour
Hard Yaka
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:00 pm

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Fourbyfour » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:08 pm

I think you've got your maths wrong.
If your surf gets 10km/l and you're currently paying ~4c/km in RUC then the govt would need to add ~40c/litre to break even.
Because diesel is used for heating, power generation, agriculture, construction etc it would lead to a very complex system to claim back the tax for offroad vehicles.

I didn't get the maths wrong the diesel and the RUCs were way cheaper then but it would be interesting to work it out on todays prices. My beef is not with the road user charges but with the antequated way that they are collected. I would not be surprised if this backward administration of it costs a large percentage of the money collected and add to this the money that is lost in people disconnecting odometers. I have eight friends who have diesel vehicles and five of them regularly disconnect odometers to avoid paying road user charges one with guy that owns a late model surf he installed a switch to cut power to the digital odometer. If this percentage was general right throughout the country it would cost the country millions of dollars each year.
The existing system is already very complicated for trying to claim back road user charges for mileage done on company property which amounts to about 80% of the vehicles yearly mileage, our department has nine vehicles each doing about 60,000 km per year, the company managers have become so frustrated with this process that they now do not bother trying to claim the mileage back.

User avatar
KiwiBacon
Hard Yaka
Posts: 963
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wet Coast

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby KiwiBacon » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:27 pm

Fourbyfour wrote:The existing system is already very complicated for trying to claim back road user charges for mileage done on company property which amounts to about 80% of the vehicles yearly mileage, our department has nine vehicles each doing about 60,000 km per year, the company managers have become so frustrated with this process that they now do not bother trying to claim the mileage back.


Someone else in that same situation was telling me about the GPS system they use for recording on/offroad use. It's collected and sent automatically, sure the system costs but it saves far more than it costs.

RUC used to be about 2.8 c/km, now it's around 4c.

User avatar
safaripete
Hard Yaka
Posts: 777
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 10:54 pm
Location: palmerston north
Contact:

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby safaripete » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:39 pm

electric only vehicles are required to pay rucs

User avatar
KiwiBacon
Hard Yaka
Posts: 963
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Wet Coast

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby KiwiBacon » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:33 am

safaripete wrote:electric only vehicles are required to pay rucs


Yep, anything which uses a fuel not already taxed for road use.
Which is pretty much everything but lpg and petrol.

So diesel, veggie oil, electricity, coal, wood etc would all have to pay RUC.

User avatar
nivaman
Hard Yaka
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:00 pm

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby nivaman » Tue May 19, 2009 2:14 am

How much does it cost for RUC's, ie 1000kms for $ 5000 for $.

User avatar
Windsock
Hard Yaka
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:18 am
Location: Manawatu

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Windsock » Tue May 19, 2009 7:51 am

nivaman wrote:How much does it cost for RUC's, ie 1000kms for $ 5000 for $.


Depends on the weight of vehicle you're buying them for.

See http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/factsheets/38.html for further info.
~ Good roads lead to bad fishing. ~ Eric Wight, Maine Game Warden ~

User avatar
nivaman
Hard Yaka
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:00 pm

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby nivaman » Wed May 20, 2009 2:09 am

What would i have to do if i was to change from petrol to diesel regarding changing RUC etc?.

User avatar
Fourbyfour
Hard Yaka
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:00 pm

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Fourbyfour » Wed May 20, 2009 10:55 am

From what I have heard there would be a bit of paperwork involved. A friend of mine did an engine change on a 70s vintage swb Toyota Landcruiser back in the 1970's when he exchanged the petrol engine with a four cylinder Isuzu diesel it was a very labour intensive operation from what I can remember and he left all gear ratios the same but the thing was screaming its head off at 100 kph. If you can't do a lot of the work yourself you are probably better off to sell the vehicle and buy a diesel version.
Last edited by Fourbyfour on Thu May 21, 2009 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Windsock
Hard Yaka
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:18 am
Location: Manawatu

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby Windsock » Wed May 20, 2009 1:49 pm

nivaman wrote:What would i have to do if i was to change from petrol to diesel regarding changing RUC etc?.


I am assuming you've transplanted a diesel into what was a petrol engined vehicle?

Once you have got it plated for the LVVTA cert process these records are transferred to your registration details by the motor registration people after the plate has been issued to the LVVTA engineer (i.e. these records are the same as what you get on the new registration papers sent to you stating the new engine details as per the cert process) on the computer at any RUC purchasing place. Other than simply filling in a RUC form and getting them to look on their computer for the details , it is as simple as handing them money with the correct details on the form. Or it was for me anyway... the process you may be requied o go through may differ.
~ Good roads lead to bad fishing. ~ Eric Wight, Maine Game Warden ~

garic
Bush Crasher
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby garic » Thu May 21, 2009 11:09 am

Sorry to jump the thread but what about 5 digit speedo's , like when one recording says 27000 then the next says 25000,.

The reason I ask is I was looking at a car which 10 years ago this happened and if you got pulled over by a cop would he see this as being clocked over by 100ks?

They record the five digit speedo as a 5 digit speedo and then when the cops pull you over do they add up how many times it has clocked over and then find out from that if its done 280000ks or 180000ks ?

User avatar
nstg8a
Hard Yaka
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Brisbane (ex nelson)

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby nstg8a » Fri May 22, 2009 4:49 pm

i reckon ruc's should be charged the same as rego... ie; when you buy a car, you are only liable for the rego from the date its transferred into your name... rucs should be the same. wouldnt be hard to do.

that way the previous owner dosnt get away with ripping the system...

User avatar
tweake
Hard Yaka
Posts: 2212
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:00 pm
Location: start of northland

Re: Questions about Road User Changes / RUC

Postby tweake » Fri May 22, 2009 7:30 pm

nstg8a wrote:i reckon ruc's should be charged the same as rego... ie; when you buy a car, you are only liable for the rego from the date its transferred into your name... rucs should be the same. wouldnt be hard to do.

that way the previous owner dosnt get away with ripping the system...


but downside is it will encourage more people to rip the system off and they will simply increase the RUC for the rest of us to make up the shortfall.

at least the new owner can negotiate a lower buying price because of all the back RUC they will have to pay and that tends to lessen the amount of people ripping the system off.

Return to “Diesel Engines and Modifications”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests