WAS fume'ing (now more of a flaming thread...)

[vvega]

if they try to gove you that off a rolling road or chassis dyno .. its a made up figure

As long as before and after numbers (right or Wrong) are done on the same dyno you still see your % gain.
Good on ya Wop.. I want to see how it Hauls the Missile on your trailer now

yeap agree just no BHP figure was ever accurate
thats why we call it bulshit horsepower
wops figures are on the money and the industry standard for measuring power from a car @ the wheels

[wopass]

it has had 3 dyno runs in its various stages of tune up to see where we were heading, and its gone the right way

[Moriarty]

it has had 3 dyno runs in its various stages of tune up to see where we were heading, and its gone the right way

If YOU borrow it to drag yr POS, will YOU take responsibility for the spilt milk?

Sandy wuz telling me and I could hardly hear him over the sound of raucous laughter...... MINE!!!!

"I didnt notice that some had ;leaked out of the bottle" is the reported excuse,

No amount of torque and HP gain is gonna make THAT smell any better!!!

[NJV6]

What have you been doing to the various stages of tune? And was the 1st figure (1390) standard?

[wopass]

What have you been doing to the various stages of tune? And was the 1st figure (1390) standard?

various fuel pump mods, turbo mods, engine overhaul to do some port work, and of course, fume.

standard run at the start was (if i remember rightly) 62kw and 450nm? allready had big exhaust and tweaked pump.

that dyno sheet is the latest with and without fume turned on to show the increase after getting the best fume rate for performance.

and Bob, YOU have a FULL keyboard at YOUR finger tips mate, use it PLEASE, your scriblings ARE getting HARD to understand... and what the hell are YOU talking about?? have YOU lost YOUR marbles?? I dont have ANY pieces of SHIT, i DONT use dads bus to DRAG with and what does spilt milk have to do with ANYTHING at ALL??

[Moriarty]

What have you been doing to the various stages of tune? And was the 1st figure (1390) standard?

various fuel pump mods, turbo mods, engine overhaul to do some port work, and of course, fume.

standard run at the start was (if i remember rightly) 62kw and 450nm? allready had big exhaust and tweaked pump.

that dyno sheet is the latest with and without fume turned on to show the increase after getting the best fume rate for performance.

and Bob, YOU have a FULL keyboard at YOUR finger tips mate, use it PLEASE, your scriblings ARE getting HARD to understand... and what the hell are YOU talking about?? have YOU lost YOUR marbles?? I dont have ANY pieces of SHIT, i DONT use dads bus to DRAG with and what does spilt milk have to do with ANYTHING at ALL??

Good on you mate.


Try to keep up to date.... someone borrowed Sandy's wagon and spilt milk in it, of course, it ripened nicely in the sun. Didn't you know?

[wopass]

Ahhh, thats why he was removing carpets, yea heard something about it but wasnt really paying attention, had bigger things to be thinking about at the time, like i hope i dont break anything else on my truck this weekend!!!



spilt milk eh...yummy

[Ben]

Hmmmmmmmm, wow, look at the torque figures!!!!!

Is that over 1000nm i can see??

Yeaaaahhhh, but, at the risk ok being flamed to death like Mr Bacon, thats wheel torque, which is pretty meaningless... which I think is what he was getting at before all the arguing.

My zuk would make about 6000Nm if it was dyno'd in 1st low.

You can work out torque at the flywheel using the horsepower figures and RPM though, as horsepower doesn't change with gearing.

At 2250RPM its making 92kW according to that graph, which is 390Nm at the engine.

At 4000RPM (peak power) its making 115kW on the graph, which is 274Nm at the engine.

That doesn't account for drivetrain loss, so taking that into account you could expect another 25% at the engine - so say 520Nm @ 2250RPM at the crank.

Compare that to stock figures: 380Nm @ 2000RPM, and its making 36% more torque than stock.

Ben

[wopass]

ahhh... you could never be flamed as bacon

its done by a dude who knows what hes doing not some cowboy who just does power runs, hes a 4x4 dyno specialest if his work was shit or wrong how long do you think he would be in buisness for?, and it has been done 3 times by the same guy on the same machine with the same settings

not in 1st low either.imagine what it would do if we did that!! the gear (high 2nd and auto so more like 3rd if manual)and wheel ratios have all been factored in to give actual output.

you say 520nm?? Hahhhahahha my crappy chev nearly makes that and the VX would tear it in half without breaking a sweat


the facts are

it has 80% more kw from first run
it has 118% more nm from first run

you can disbelieve all you like and try to prove it wrong till your blue in the face. it is what it is.

but anyway, theres the proof up there ^^

[Bulletproof]

Still room for improvement in HP and torque


Check this out!
It's a Mercedes Benz owned by an Abu Dhabi oil billionaire (naturally).
Featuring the newly developed V10 quad turbo with 1,600 horsepower and 2800nm of torque
0-100km/h in less than 2secs, 1/4 mile in 6.89secs running on biofuel.

Cheer Richard

[mudzilla]

You can work out torque at the flywheel using the horsepower figures and RPM though, as horsepower doesn't change with gearing.Ben

Thats what the computer connected to the Dyno sorts out...

[wopass]

Still room for improvement in HP and torque


Check this out!
It's a Mercedes Benz owned by an Abu Dhabi oil billionaire (naturally).
Featuring the newly developed V10 quad turbo with 1,600 horsepower and 2800nm of torque
0-100km/h in less than 2secs, 1/4 mile in 6.89secs running on biofuel.

Cheer Richard

yea theres some sick cool stuff comes out of there!

have you seen the safari and landcruiser diesel vids from the arab billionares?? smoking all 4 tyres leaving the line and pulling huge dyno numbers?? those guys have way too much spare cash!!!...wonder if they can be reached by email to ask for sponsorship...Hmmm

[vvega]

Hmmmmmmmm, wow, look at the torque figures!!!!!

Is that over 1000nm i can see??

Yeaaaahhhh, but, at the risk ok being flamed to death like Mr Bacon, thats wheel torque, which is pretty meaningless... which I think is what he was getting at before all the arguing.

My zuk would make about 6000Nm if it was dyno'd in 1st low.

You can work out torque at the flywheel using the horsepower figures and RPM though, as horsepower doesn't change with gearing.

At 2250RPM its making 92kW according to that graph, which is 390Nm at the engine.

At 4000RPM (peak power) its making 115kW on the graph, which is 274Nm at the engine.

That doesn't account for drivetrain loss, so taking that into account you could expect another 25% at the engine - so say 520Nm @ 2250RPM at the crank.

Compare that to stock figures: 380Nm @ 2000RPM, and its making 36% more torque than stock.

Ben

to work out anything at the flywheel you need to know the drivetrainloss
while you can guess ... its only ever a guestimate figure
and as a person that has spent a bit of time on dyno's ... yes hp does change with gears .... because different drive ratio's promote different drivetrain loss

hope that helps

[Andrew1706]

Is torque effected by drivetrain loss like horsepower is?

There's the generic 10-15-20% rule of thumb that applies to HP but what about TQ?

[vvega]

horsepower is derived from torque
formular is
Power in HP = (Torque in lb-ft) RPM / 5253.5

horsepower is "work done"
torque is " force applied"

so if you get a loss in hp then because they are directly linked by calculation you will get a loss in torque

drivetrainloss is a dynamic figure dependednt on wheel speed and hp

you have a % of loss to overcome .. then your hp will rise ... and obviously you loss will increase or decrease depentant on a LOT of other things .. the oil drag on the gearsets and diffs .... at slower speeds it will be different to higher speeds were its throwing around the gearbox
loss through heat ...
loss through sound ...
loss from tooth abrasion
loss from thrust in the box itself
loss through drive angles
loss through sidewall flex and tire squat
loss through tireslip on the rollers (dyno tpe dependant)

the list goes on and on and on
and some of those .. are not always there
for instant .. once the tires have wrinkeled ... you no longer are appliying unmeasured energy to twist them

if yours tires slip and then gain traction again .. thats a loss that comes and goes away

etc etc etc
hope that helps

hope that helps

[Bulletproof]

A tractor has very little HP but cant be killed because of huge torque created by a huge flywheel.

Alot of tractors were only 15 HP

years ago 1-4 cyl were popular and had the big fly wheels and long strokes and at 1000rpm didnt die. Then 6-8 cyl became popular and because there was always a Cyl firing they reasoned you didnt need the big flywheel and even though they had more power died at low revs.


Just my 2cents worth

Cheers Richard

[vvega]

bigger flywheels "store" energy
thats what kenitic energy is and how it works

basically when the engine output falls below whats required the stored energy in the flywheel tops it up

[Bulletproof]

bigger flywheels "store" energy
thats what kenitic energy is and how it works

basically when the engine output falls below whats required the stored energy in the flywheel tops it up

Hi Wayne

Plenty of flywheel torque is the secret of 4 wheeling but no good for a formula 1 car that wants rapid acceleration.

I was with a couple of V8s a couple of weeks ago that had heaps of power but kept stalling near idle when it mattered and then didn't get traction because their power created wheel spin and then I drove straight past them with my gutless 4 cyl.

Cheers Richard.

[vvega]

bigger flywheels "store" energy
thats what kenitic energy is and how it works

basically when the engine output falls below whats required the stored energy in the flywheel tops it up

Hi Wayne

Plenty of flywheel torque is the secret of 4 wheeling but no good for a formula 1 car that wants rapid acceleration.

I was with a couple of V8s a couple of weeks ago that had heaps of power but kept stalling near idle when it mattered and then didn't get traction because their power created wheel spin and then I drove straight past them with my gutless 4 cyl.

Cheers Richard.

yeah ... keen to try out my new auto ... i think that will solve that issue ... but then i never had a issue with stalling mine

[darinz]

Going from a radial muddy to a Simex will see a huge drop in hp! There are so many variables that the only things dynos a good for is what Wop has done and that is to see the % increase with mods. Anything else is just BS.

But I question that Wops 80 has 1390nm and has only had a 118% increase. Theoritically it had 420nm (I think) when new so 118% increase would give 915nm at the flywheel. Which is pretty dam cool but aint 1390!
So is the 118% wrong or the maths wrong?

[wopass]

Going from a radial muddy to a Simex will see a huge drop in hp! There are so many variables that the only things dynos a good for is what Wop has done and that is to see the % increase with mods. Anything else is just BS.

But I question that Wops 80 has 1390nm and has only had a 118% increase. Theoritically it had 420nm (I think) when new so 118% increase would give 915nm at the flywheel. Which is pretty dam cool but aint 1390!
So is the 118% wrong or the maths wrong?

its more like 1490 bro and it aint mine no idea what mine has on the dyno, never run it, cant afford to

your maths is wrong the first dyno run wasnt 420

[darinz]

Sorry I should have said 420 was factory torque (I think that's what it was?).
All I was saying is that if you have had 118% increase then either you had a lot more torque than factory spec at your first reading, the gain has been a lot more or the dyno calculation isn't acurate.
The only thing that is really important (in reality) is that the mods you did gave you 118% increase. The rest is just BS anyway.
The one thing I didn't get was a before reading and that is the one that would really have given me an idea of what we have achieved.
You must be stoked with the results though?

[wopass]

Sorry I should have said 420 was factory torque (I think that's what it was?).
All I was saying is that if you have had 118% increase then either you had a lot more torque than factory spec at your first reading, the gain has been a lot more or the dyno calculation isn't acurate.
The only thing that is really important (in reality) is that the mods you did gave you 118% increase. The rest is just BS anyway.
The one thing I didn't get was a before reading and that is the one that would really have given me an idea of what we have achieved.
You must be stoked with the results though?

the very first dyno run was 64kw and 680nm which was as bought with big zaust and probably tweaked pump allready as its an ex 4wd upgrades vehicle so who knows what was done to it then.

so from 64kw to 115kw and 680nm to 1475nm

the results are on the road really, a 3ton 4wd bus with 35" treads that pulls the way it does is really mind blowing!! like being in a mk2 escort with a 351 plant in it

[darinz]

Yeah that is my point, in reality there is no way it had a flywheel 680nm so it is the % gain that is the important (and impressive) thing.
Anyway you calculate or record it, over double the torque is a wonderful thing! And what a great feeling it is when you can play with the boy racers!!!! It sure pisses them off!
I use to love doing that in my old truck when it had the deisel in it. As a bonus a side exhuast would pump black smoke in the window of there cars as well!

[vvega]

trouble is .. most boy racers thee days seam to have cars that will do 12 second 1/4's .. in some cases even faster

its fast for a 700 ton monster
and the numbers back up everything that wop has said all the way through the threed

[flyingbrick]

Last visited: 08 Sep 2009 12:10

hahahaha he's still visiting.

[wopass]

the other thing i dont get...

why does everyone try to bag it and say its all crap and thats not what the engines making cos its measured at the wheels so blah blah blah

who gives a fat rats ballbag what its making at the flywheel, isnt it the wheels on the road that makes the thing go forward?? so the most important measurement is from the wheels??

i can hear it now... yea but then you have gears making it look better and reduction etc etc...

isnt that what gears are for??


lmao



wonder if he would beat me up the bombays now?? might have to test that to see if mine still has more grunt than his

[Andrew1706]

Didn't you originally claim a 1000nm Landcruiser engine.

If not, KiwiBacon misunderstood what you claimed and assumed at the engine.

KiwiBacon argued using calculations that you couldn't produce 1000nm at the engine which it true.

That Cruiser does not have 1000nm at the flywheel as was originally argued.

[wopass]

read the entire thread bud

the only way to do that would have been to pull the engine out and bolt it to an engine dyno... do you think im about to do that for shits and giggles??

nope

at the wheels
at the wheels
at the wheels

and my original claim was a 970nm at the wheels landcruiser and that was from memory of the second dyno report after a few tweaks which has since been increased again as you can plainly see from the report up there ^^ but why believe that, its obviously done by an amture who doesnt know what hes doing and has no idea how to do his maths eh

jelous much

[wopass]

lol, found it

and yes it does have near on 1000nm of tourqe, 970 to be more accurate and yes the ratios were correct as i queried him on it

theres plenty of guys that do and have good results.

Got a dyno sheet for that? YUP




What does lpg detonating inside a diesel engine tell you?
it doesnt detonate if you do it right