Tragic result of inadequate target identification

[dazza85]

Teen dead in hunting tragedy
By TONY WALL - Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 16 March 2008

A man who accidentally shot his daughter's boyfriend thinking the teenager was a deer arrived at the nearest home distraught and yelling: "I've shot my mate."

Police have named the victim as 18-year-old Aaron Timms of Napier. He died instantly when he was shot in the chest at a hunting block off the Napier-Taupo Rd near Tarawera early yesterday.

The block is administered by David Puna and his sister Yvonne. David Puna said the man who fired the gun was in his 40s or 50s and his two daughters were going out with the two young men who were his hunting companions.

The shooting happened about 12km from Puna's house on Tataraakina Rd. "They were walking down a road and they heard noises in the bush. Young Aaron ran back and the father-in-law was down the bottom and thought he was a deer and boomf he shot."

The older man drove back to the Punas' house to raise the alarm at about 7.30am. "He was distraught. All he told us was that he'd shot his mate. He went to meet the police and I kept everyone else [other hunters] out," Yvonne Puna said.

She said the party had arrived at the block on Friday and stayed the night in a hut, which is charged out at $65 a night. Puna said Timms had phoned earlier to book the trip, having hunted there before, and the group were in good spirits when they arrived. It was the first fatal shooting at the block.

Senior Sergeant Andy Sloan of Napier said police were treating it as an accident.

"It appears the group of three had separated and the 18-year-old was shot after he walked off a road and into a bush area. It appears he was mistaken for a deer," Sloan said.

He said police were conducting a scene examination. The remaining two members of the group would be interviewed and a decision on what charges would be laid would not be made for some time.

Timms' parents were too upset to speak to the Star-Times.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/4441534a11.html

[surf_tomo]

Very tragic. I have had no intensions of hunting and DOC/open access blocks this easter,, every mad bugger is out. It happens all too often. Properly identify your target this easter and roar.

Tom.

[wopass]

that is terrible..... loss for words.....

ALLWAYS IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET ! !

so sad that man had to learn the hard way. now he will have to live with the weight of killing a young man for the rest of his life.

[imlost]

Yes very sad indeed for all concerned.
The only way I can see around this is to make it mandatory to wear blaze or blaze camo when hunting. Pass a law.
Police the law and educate more.

[wopass]

Yes very sad indeed for all concerned.
The only way I can see around this is to make it mandatory to wear blaze or blaze camo when hunting. Pass a law.
Police the law and educate more.

plenty of incidents where people have been shot in hunting accidents and they WERE wearing blaze orange figure that one out

[haynzy]

Yes very sad indeed for all concerned.
The only way I can see around this is to make it mandatory to wear blaze or blaze camo when hunting. Pass a law.
Police the law and educate more.

That wont fix the problem as alot of the hunting accidents in this country are guys getting excited about movement or sound and shooting at will there was an article in the nz outdoor mag about 4 years ago showing what blaze orange looked like in low light and the results were pretty inconclusive.
My opinion is there are to many guys out there with a middle of the brown aiming policy that shoot from the hip with no consideration of what they are shooting at, where the bullet is gonna hit or what is gonna happen after that millisecond adrenilin rush they get when they pull the trigger of a weopon they simply cant handle

[imlost]

There probably isn't one single fix that will stop this happening again, but if something isn't done then in 5-10 yrs time there will be no hunting for anyone.

[Heath]

Cant legislate for "buck Fever".

I feel for the families involved.

And the hunter he will live with this fior the rest of his life. Not to mention the law will probably throw the book. If he had been drink driving he would get off with a fine and loss of license, this will probably cost time inside. Sometimes the rules suck.

Heath

[haynzy]

no hunting in the roar would stop most accidents but most hunters in new zealand now are "big tuff trophy hunters" and think that after they have wathched a few hunting dvds and gone down to the local outdoor shop and armed themselves to the teeth they are ready to go. I dont think there is a logical answer to the problem but im damn sure I dont even put a round in the chamber untill im sure what im planning on having a crack at is what I want to shoot and not a possom, boogie man or my best mate

[Bubba]

I was taught to hunt by my father who was one of the best Deer Cullers in the country, when we hunted together, we stayed together and often meant he (or I, but more often him) unchambered the round so the other could shoot safely. It was all by bolt action and he lived by the rule 'if it takes more than one round, then you shouldn't be farking hunting'. We always planned, normally from an advantage point where we were going and always knew where the other hunter/party was when we split and we agreed where the no go boundaries were and never ever crossed it. Even if that meant losing the pig/deer. I have even been in situations where we have had to watch pigs crossing our path in the open because the other members of the party were hundreds of metres away but in the round flight path.

Military tactics are based on this same approach

Oh and only hunt with those you know and trust

I feel empathy for all parties of unfortunate event and it happens way to often

[Moriarty]

Speaking as an old fart hunter, and onetime new Zealand Mountain Safety, Firearms Safety Instructor, Range master of NZDA Range in Tokoroa for a few years, and many years ago.
The Above is so you get the idea that I am not actually a novice hunter.........

Our group started hunting in our late teens early twenties.
'OK, we had all been bush babies as kids, but I am talking about the formation of our group.
me, (Obviously) Bosshogg, My bro, Dave, Johnny Robinson were the core. Others came and went, one came, went in very short order cos he wanted to bring booze, and the 'went" came along almost before the "came"
Others came and stayed, Alan Robinson. Wopass. (can't keep him out!) Nathan, my own son, Rolloverrover (Richie)

We have never had even a close shave and Paul and I have been close hunting mates for ages.
Why? we were BOTH safety instructors, range masters for many years, and we firmly believe the rule about target identification. So much so, that if we cant get a clean kill shot and be positive it's a deer, we DON'T SHOOT.

This, mind you, is often hunting as a close pair in the bush, sometimes only fleeting glimpses of the other hunting partner. Still, we demand positive ID from OURSELVES before we pull the trigger. When Robbo's son was a kld, and Richie too, we had modded a .22 into single shot rifles, with baby length stocks, iron sights and took them out on goat kills.
This has a large bearing on the ability of two young men who are safe with firearms. they have dealt out death to goats, stood and watched them dying, or being gutted out, etc . The KNOW that death comes out the little hole in the end and treat the dealer of death with great respect.

I guess, what we have done, for at least 6 young men, is destroy the 'buck fever" syndrome, and made them grow up with a healthy respect for the death, the rules etc.

The rules.
treat every gun as if it was loaded, even to shouting at each other if attention wanders. and taking that shouting in good part.
Identify your target, not beyond a 'reasonable' doubt, but NO DOUBT.
If you are reading THIS, you KNOW all the rules, dammit!! What's the problem?

IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET!!!

Easy........

[basics]

can easily happen, i was out hunting when this happend, got onto a ridge or private land, and spotted a party of 4 hunters, the first guy raised the rifle to his eye to look through the scope and his mate with the bi-nocks, needless to say we didnt stay on the ridge for long. thats the reason i dont bother hunting in the raw, to many trigger happy fuckers out there.

very sad for every one invloved.

[Moriarty]

i dont bother hunting in the raw,

In the RAW? too damn cold mate!!

but seriously, you're right, we haven't been out in the roar proper for many a year, this year, it will be well over by late June when our leave pass is issued. It's the Queen street hunters that have always frightened us, one long weekend a year, whereas, when were all in Tokoroa, we were getting into the Kaimanawa and Kaweka ranges, every second weekend.
I suppose THAT in itself, is why we are careful hunters, that and we actually respect the game we are hunting. We don't wish to kill badly, we let 'em get away without them even knowing we are even THERE if we cant take a clean killing shot.


Are we thread jacking?

[nzhunter]

A real tradgedy.

As an old fart from deerstalkers told me, dont identify if its a deer or not, identify the sex of the animal this means you have that extra few seconds/minutes to really check the animal out and if it is ACTUALLY a deer and not another human.

[haynzy]

I suppose THAT in itself, is why we are careful hunters, that and we actually respect the game we are hunting. We don't wish to kill badly, we let 'em get away without them even knowing we are even THERE if we cant take a clean killing shot.
If the hunters involved in these accidents adopted the same attitude there would be alot less grieving familys

[BrentC]

Read this on nz.general

I could have killed someone two days ago

It was not long after dawn, and I was sitting just under the edge of a
ridge, watching a nice open clearing below me as the sun was about to
hit it. And I was about to come too damn close to killing someone.

It was a beautiful day after a cold night, and I was hunkered down
behind a log after a pre-dawn torch-light climb up the hill. The
night before, my hunting companions and I had sat around the fire in
the hut, discussed our strategies, and divided up the accessible area
into who-goes-where and what our boundaries were.

At 5am we arose, breakfasted, and walked out into the dark. After the
hour-long climb in the dark, there I was, reclining against the earth,
and behind a fallen tree, with my raincoat under my bum to keep me
dry. With my mittens on, balaclava pulled low and my jacket pulled
tight, I would have been invisible to any deer, but being dressed in
cammo-orange from the knees-up I was clearly visible to any human. I
was ready. The Roar starts soon and so I gave a roar myself into the
unknown just to see if I could spark any interest and attract the
attention of a stag keen on protecting his patch and challenging the
uppity newcomer I was pretending to be.

An hour later, and just as the direct sunlight moved across the trees
on this breathlessly still and clear morning, I heard the snap of a
stick from the bush 50 metres from the clearing. Through my
binoculars, I scoured the bush for a little gap and a sighting of the
deer. There is no pigs in this area, and it might just be that big
stag whose prints I had seen on reconnoitre the day before. I saw a
tree shake, and peered intently at and around that tree

I still could not make out any shape of anything in this thick scrubby
bush, and then again I heard a crash and saw movement of foliage
within a few metres of the clearing. There was no doubt about it, it
was an animal. There is no way that a bird – even a big native parrot
which don’t live where I was – could make that sort of noise, and
logic says that the only thing that moves through the bush, snaps
sticks, and shakes trees is a large animal.

A big stag is not a subtle beast, and all the more so as he prepares
to fight for and service his harem, and that tree shaking was a
classic sign of a stag rubbing its antlers to remove velvet or to
polish his tines ready for mating and combat associated with the roar
in a few weeks time. I still could not see the deer I strongly
suspected was there, and so I wound down the magnification on the vari-
power binoculars so as to see both bush and clearing. I scoured under
every leaf to see the red-brown of a stag, or the curve of a shoulder
or antler. Every leaf movement I could see, or rustle that I could
hear, was scrutinised as I desperately sought to see what I was about
to kill.

I waited for him to step out and present me with his head, neck, and
shoulder. I could visualise the 80 grains of copper-jacketed lead
from my .243 shattering the still morning as it shrieked through the
air at around 2800 feet per second, the shudder of the shockwave as it
tore into the stag, and the crumpling of the animal as he hit the
ground on the spot. I could see me walking down there, cutting out
his heart, lungs, and guts, and wrapping him in a high-viz vest I
carry just in case another hunter sees him but not me and shoots. I
could see me cutting holes in his legs and securing each front leg to
each back leg and hoisting him atop of my shoulders for the arduous
walk back to the hut which would take much more than the hour it took
to get in here – and then several more hours beyond the hut, up and
down hills, back to the 4x4 parked in the middle of nowhere.

I could see me hanging this stag in my garage by his head, skinning
him, then hanging him by an ‘ankle’, taking his back-steaks off ,
severing and boning out his legs and neck, and giving his spine to the
dog. All he had to do was come out from that bush, and die from what
was an easy shot.

I picked up my rifle, and brought it almost up to my shoulder: It is
best to be ready to aim so that the movement of picking the rifle up
does not startle the deer. Holding it to the ready, but not aiming
it yet prepared to do so, I flicked up the scope covers. I looked
over the rifle and heard another noise and movement of bush. My whole
world was concentrated on that small patch of bush and clearing. When
that deer came out, I was going to ID the deer with the naked eye,
raise my rifle to my shoulder, close the bolt on a live round, ID the
deer through the scope, and kill it dead.

Then my ‘whole world’ was filled with the orange-clad head and torso
of one of my hunting companions.

He should not have been there, and with an exhaled breath I lowered my
rifle, stood up so that he saw me and advised him of my presence. He
turned, saw me, and even from that distance and with the naked eye I
could see the look on his face – he knew exactly what had transpired
just then.

He dropped his head and looked away. He looked around at where he
stood and saw what I had seen, then looked back up at me and waved,
before heading off from where he had came. If I was to be
uncharitable I’d suggest he went to change his underwear. I sat back
down, and replayed these events in my mind. I thought about all that
movement and noise in the bush over what would have been many
minutes. I thought about all the possible times over those very long
minutes I could have raised my rifle, closed the bolt, and fired. I
thought about how I could have killed him. I also treble-checked my
map, my compass, and my GPS – I knew exactly where I was, and I knew
he was in the wrong place.

Of course, him being in the wrong place would have been of little
consolation to his widow or his two daughters had I shot at the
movement I saw. It would have been of little consolation to The
Midget or The Spawn as the police visited me and I was tried for
‘reckless use of a firearm causing death’, and was jailed. I could
have put a round or two into that movement in the hope of either
killing, flushing, or ‘winging’ the deer which I would then have to
track, or I have could have waited until I had a positive
identification.

Back at the hut that night, we discussed what had happened. I told
him how I had ‘watched’ him move through the bush and what I was
thinking as I tried to identify my target. He said he had no idea I
was there, and that he misread the ridges and was not where he thought
he was, and had wandered off his area. He had been following deer
sign under the bush canopy which took him to where he was, and was
simply in the wrong place.

So why did I tell you this true story from this last weekend? Why
have I exposed myself to potential ridicule and criticism for
something in this story that does not meet someone else’s value-
system?
Because another hunter, an 18-year-old kid, was killed and within a
few hours of this event two days ago by his hunting mate who initial
media reports say took a ‘snap-shot’ at movement in the bush, and in a
place I have hunted previously.
Because this true story rammed home to me what I crusty old bugger
said to me on one of my first deer hunts through a hunting club I used
to belong to long ago and in another city. We were sitting around a
fire talking about how great it was to be in the bush and not at work,
study, or being nagged, and this crusty old bugger said “You know why
we’re here? It’s because we’re the lucky ones”. I always knew what he
meant, and now I understand.

[Taz]

No sympathy. Bloody idiot. Deserves the jail time he will get whether intentional or not.

Common sense has to come into play especially if he has been hunting for years. Shooting a target is not a split second decision, no matter what the target or situation.

I know it sounds harsh but realistically people like this should not have guns.

identifying a target is bloody common sense, not a rule. Come on. Don't ruin it for people with a head/patience/COMMON SENSE on their shoulders.

[Taz]

Speaking as an old fart hunter, and onetime new Zealand Mountain Safety, Firearms Safety Instructor, Range master of NZDA Range in Tokoroa for a few years, and many years ago.
The Above is so you get the idea that I am not actually a novice hunter.........

Our group started hunting in our late teens early twenties.
'OK, we had all been bush babies as kids, but I am talking about the formation of our group.
me, (Obviously) Bosshogg, My bro, Dave, Johnny Robinson were the core. Others came and went, one came, went in very short order cos he wanted to bring booze, and the 'went" came along almost before the "came"
Others came and stayed, Alan Robinson. Wopass. (can't keep him out!) Nathan, my own son, Rolloverrover (Richie)

We have never had even a close shave and Paul and I have been close hunting mates for ages.
Why? we were BOTH safety instructors, range masters for many years, and we firmly believe the rule about target identification. So much so, that if we cant get a clean kill shot and be positive it's a deer, we DON'T SHOOT.

This, mind you, is often hunting as a close pair in the bush, sometimes only fleeting glimpses of the other hunting partner. Still, we demand positive ID from OURSELVES before we pull the trigger. When Robbo's son was a kld, and Richie too, we had modded a .22 into single shot rifles, with baby length stocks, iron sights and took them out on goat kills.
This has a large bearing on the ability of two young men who are safe with firearms. they have dealt out death to goats, stood and watched them dying, or being gutted out, etc . The KNOW that death comes out the little hole in the end and treat the dealer of death with great respect.

I guess, what we have done, for at least 6 young men, is destroy the 'buck fever" syndrome, and made them grow up with a healthy respect for the death, the rules etc.

The rules.
treat every gun as if it was loaded, even to shouting at each other if attention wanders. and taking that shouting in good part.
Identify your target, not beyond a 'reasonable' doubt, but NO DOUBT.
If you are reading THIS, you KNOW all the rules, dammit!! What's the problem?

IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET!!!

Easy........

To true. Hadn't read this before my rant. My step father is a keen hunter from young and even did it professionally for a while. Never has a round in the barrel unless at an IDENTIFIED TARGET and doesn't even aim until he has identified the eye colour as not some poor farmers cows or sheep or even an un announced camper over the fence.

[Moriarty]

Read this on nz.general

I could have killed someone two days ago
“You know why
we’re here? It’s because we’re the lucky ones”. I always knew what he
meant, and now I understand.

Not going to quote the whole thing.
Good quote, though, brent.
the thing is, it's VERY emotive, written for a magazine, for money, BUT still describes what happens ALL THE TIME!!

In our group, I have lost count of the times we have watched movement and seen a mate or a stranger pop out of the bush!!
Hell, I stalked Sandy for half a day once cs, in our early days, his faded blaze orange (before THAT name was in vogue) was then the right colour for a Jap hind in summer coat.
I had the scope on him, or actually, his movement! with the cross hairs well off to the side, and he popped out of the bush!!

Wasted half a day on something that would be as tough as an old boot....
seriously, even THEN he being what>? 22? me 28? , had enough nous to be ID the target.
It is still happening, we check out EVERY movement, or sound, but we all keep coming back to the same deal, dont we? DONT shoot at noise, movement, colour. still easy to me! Whats the big deal? we have all, (cos we are old farts, remember,) have shot many many deer, goats, wabbits etc etc. Possums...... vermin bastards. our younger members, I willingly and with great pleasure, hunt with, cos they are of OUR mind, by THEIR choice, follow the very basic rule.

Firearm safety has always, since I was thrashed by a nieghbouring bullocky for pinging one of his logging bullocks with an air-rifle, been of the highest priority for me.

End of rant.

Bob.E

[basics]

ive had it a couple times already, and im only 20. you think your alone, but in such a small country with so many keen outdoors-men, your never alone.
bi-nocks are wonderfull things!