"cash refund" on purchasing a car

Big-AL · Post by **Big-AL** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:31 am

i am selling an old Mitsubishi car. Some people looked at it today, and said they will buy it for $2700... but they are getting a loan for the money.

They want to tell the finance company the car is worth $4000 dollars and get a bank cheque for $4000 made out to me.

they want to take the car when they give me the $4000 bank cheque and once the cheque has cleared they want me to give them $1300 cash (or bank deposit) back.

sound dodge to anyone? im not sure what to do.

i am a RMVT and the car is in a Ltd company's name. They gave me $100 cash deposit on the vehicle.

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:47 am

I wouldn't do it. They will probably then go an insure it for 4 grand then it might get 'stolen' and the insurance company could come a knocking asking you questions.

Thats bad case scenario though.

tallsam66 · Post by **tallsam66** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:48 am

Dont do it.

They are running some sort of scam.

A bank cheque can be cancelled & isnt as good as cash.

Ask for cash or no deal.

evil_genius · Post by **evil_genius** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:51 am

i live in england and that is a massive scam here, happens loads. the check will be fake but the funds do go in your bank for about a week and you will give them your cash then your bank phone saying u have no money.

it paying someone to steal your car!

DONT DO IT.

skid · Post by **skid** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:00 am

always, I repeat always, it will come back and bite you on the ass. Don't do it :!: :!:

tpft · Post by **tpft** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:55 am

report them to the cops

dazza85 · Post by **dazza85** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:05 am

All of the above.

There will only be one looser in a deal like this ... YOU

Tell them cash or no deal and give them there $100 back.

Even if the check clears and you get your money it can still come back and bite you big time.

I would do what TPFT suggests and give the local cops a call.
And if you know who the finance co is I would give them a call too.

Would suggest that you be careful though, you don't want these loosers calling back and pinching the car.

86-surf · Post by **86-surf** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:15 am

What they said,

If you don't want it to get nicked or you think it will,
go down to your lockal hard whare store and buy a cupple of meters of chain and a cupple padlocks,
put the chain thru the holes in the wheels and arround the strut or suspension arm or whatever it will go round that it wont brake,Then padlock it togeather

Worked for me :lol:

pug · Post by **pug** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:37 am

if it was me and my wife says i can be blunt at times i would tell them to piss off,i use the name pug because i was a boxer not because we own a small dog,if you dont want to be confrantational then you lie and say someone else is interested and is also trying to get a loan :wink:

shldwe · Post by **shldwe** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:10 am

i would say the person, wants the extra money for something else and the bank would only lend with car as security- i would tell them because of the hassel the car is going to cost them 3k instead of $2700-

i dont think anybody would bother trying to fraud you for a car of such little value-and as long as your vehicle offer and sales agreement say the correct price your sweet

a little bit extreme to get a big chain and tie the car up as some keen bean above suggessted

xj · Post by xj » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:21 am

Al, you'd be a party to defrauding a lending institution (mind you, some would say that lending institutions deserve a tickle here and there).... give them their $100 back and send them on their way mate.

TJ · Post by TJ » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:43 am

I am with XJ, you will be becoming part (accomplice) of a scheme to defraud a financial institution. Don't do it, its not worth it. You don't know how many other tricks I have seen doing the same thing....

Besides that loan giver is likely to be a private loan company and not a big bank that may ignore small amount fraud and not prosecute. You said it was an old car only (10+ years). Private company may decide to get "even" and not prosecute eiither. Eitherway, looks messy for a business like yours.

shldwe · Post by **shldwe** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:56 am

As long as VOA that you supply purchaser stacks to the agreed amount of $2700 or 3k if you want to be checky- you will not be laible for any kind of fraud-

i think everybody is looking far to deep into this...............

i would do the deal, make the sale and walk away with your tidy profit

Shane · Post by **Shane** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:21 am

Its a Scam dont do it.............

TJ · Post by TJ » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:33 am

shldwe wrote:As long as VOA that you supply purchaser stacks to the agreed amount of $2700 or 3k if you want to be checky- you will not be laible for any kind of fraud-

i think everybody is looking far to deep into this...............

i would do the deal, make the sale and walk away with your tidy profit

Your first para almost sounds like legal advice (great if you are a lawyer).

I am risk averse when it comes to my and my business's reputation is concerned. All of us have just pointed out what can potentially go wrong and land Big Al in trouble with the law. Its upto him what's worth risking his reputation in the market.

To me, taking risks with money is okay (after all you run a business to make money - more risk, more potential reward). Taking risks that can potentionally harm my name is not okay.

Big-AL · Post by **Big-AL** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:53 pm

hey guys

thanks for everyones advice. This is the first car i am selling under my newly registered company. The first one i always the hardest haha!

i have talked to the people. They are getting the loan as a personal loan from their bank, as opposed to a finance company.

i have told them a bank cheque is not good enough for me. i need to see cash / cash credited into my account or no deal.

So they are organising to have the money credited into my account.

i have never talked to their bank, or agreed in anyway that the price of the car is $4000.

my sales agreement and SIN notice will say $2700

if they happen to put $4000 in my account i will withdraw it all and give them it all back and ask for the $2700 they owe me.

How does that sounds?

pug · Post by **pug** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:07 pm

that sounds good mate :lol:

Ralfie · Post by **Ralfie** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:11 pm

There have been fraudulent attempts like this before, not so much as to defraud an insurance company but the vendor.
The bank cheque will be fraudulent, you give them the car and they say they will get the balance later. By the time you find out and realise the bank cheque is fake they are long gone with your car and you have no cash....
you are now the looser........

Good luck with the new venture

DaveM · Post by **DaveM** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:23 pm

Remember, they are obviously trying to get a loan from the bank for more than the vehicle is worth, which for whatever reason, is not good.

I'd be careful, you don't want to be playing these little games, if it bites you in the ass, the only person you have to blame will be your self.

Although you haven't told the bank the vehicle is $4000, if you go ahead with this, you are doing so knowingly, and shown this on a public forum.

I'd be very wary.

lanky · Post by **lanky** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:30 pm

IMHO i dont think they are trying to scam you. I got a loan from a bank and they only give you the amount you need to buy the car, i think they are telling the bank its 4k and want the cash back off you so they can "spend" it on what they please. I tried getting more than the car was worth off the bank and they said no so i got a personal loan instead. My 2c

al889 · Post by **al889** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:05 pm

Maybe it's not a scam, but if they get a personal loan then surely the money could go into their account then they just pay you the real amount and spend the rest on what ever. That would be fine. If they pay you $4000 and you refund the money then isnt that some type of money laundering and they tell their mates and suddenly you have a queue of people all with dodge loans trying to get cash out of you.

Doesn't sound like an honest way to start a business...

TJ · Post by TJ » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:14 pm

If its a personal loan, bank would put the money in their account to spend as they please. They could spend aa portion of it to buy a car from.

If the bank is putting money in your (vendor) account, then its not a personal loan. It is likely to be a car loan or a hire-purchase loan.

Issues around money laundering, insurance and loan fraud could be possible. Deal does not appear to be entirely above table. Be careful in whatever you decide to do. I personally would walk away from it, particularly when its a new business trying to establish a name and reputation.

shldwe · Post by **shldwe** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:25 am

------------------------Do it-----------------------------------
Everybody is thinking the worst. Do your first deal, Nothing will happen

nstg8a · Post by **nstg8a** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:10 am

shldwe wrote:------------------------Do it-----------------------------------
Everybody is thinking the worst. Do your first deal, Nothing will happen

yeah, i sorta agree, as you say, all your paperwork will show that the price is $2700... all your doing is giving them their change really...

yeah, the finance company/bank wont like it, but hey, cant blame people for trying to get some extra cash this time of year.

callum007 · Post by **callum007** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:56 am

ive done it... was cheaper money than my visa card.. bought a car for 5.5k borrowed 7k to do a private car purchase. they never asked how much the car actually was

safangari · Post by **safangari** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:39 pm

Mate, I've been selling cars for 2 years as my own concern. If you want to shoot the breeze, give me a call or text. Personally, I wouldn't be doing it. Run it past your accountant, have a yarn to them, they may say its sweet as. But think of what it may look like to an auditor mate.

Paulie81 · Post by **Paulie81** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:06 pm

i wouldnt worry to much about it, there just trying to get more out of the finance company.

having said that, i wouldnt let them drive away with the truck untill the cheque is cleared and in your bank.

lneil · Post by **lneil** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:30 pm

You are a registered trader, so you do need to be very careful here. You may well suffer no consequences from the deal, but if you intend to be trading long-term you don't want to stuff things up at the start. If the borrower is using the vehicle as security for a loan, it is highly likely that at some point the lender is going to want some documentation confirming the value. It will be required that it be fully insured if it is security for a loan, and the insurer is also very likely to liaise with both you and the lender, to establish the correct value.

The only way you should even consider doing this deal is if the vehicle price is truthfully stated on all documentation (including the SIN card), and all your financial records show that the correct amount was paid for the car. Don't forget that this site is keenly scrutinised by vast numbers of people from all walks of life, including cops, bankers, accountants, auditors, and undeniably the occasional ar@#wipe who would take pleasure in simply getting a car-dealer in the cart.

Your desire to keep your good name, and the ability to sleep with a clear conscience should steer you in the right direction.

And no, I'm not paranoid, but I am a car-salesman and an ex-cop.

Good luck

xj · Post by xj » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:17 pm

How did you get on with this Al?

"cash refund" on purchasing a car

"cash refund" on purchasing a car

Re: "cash refund" on purchasing a car

Re: "cash refund" on purchasing a car