Ford 4.1 into surf?

[nstg8a]

Im thinking of doing an engine conversion, I want to put a falcon 6 cylinder in place of my 2lt.

Just had quite a good chat to the local ford wrecker about options.
I want it to be carbie initially, mainly to simplify the conversion, and cos carbie falcon motors are dime a dozen.
Originally I was thinking something like a XE/XF motor, cos people practically give rusty complet cars away, the wrecker suggested using a later model EF 4.0l, as they are a far better motor, and still cheap, he sells them with a 3 month warrenty for about $650.
He said I can use the EA manifold and run the carbie( its what the speedway boys do), and that way later on its easy to swap in EFI if I want to. Although in the interests of KISS im still leaning towards a factory carbie motor…

Now, am I right in thinking that an adapter from falcon to my gearbox will be easy as to get?

So, after I get an adapter, make some engine mounts, work out what il use for alternator and pwr steering, plus im guessing il have to run thermo fans in front of the radiator to give me room, been very loosely quoted by an auto sparky $500 to wire up new motor, and since im not a fan of wiring I would maybe go that way.

I haven’t run a tape measure over a motor yet, so I don’t even know if it’ll fit.. But hey, im optimistic. If a 2jz fits then a 4.0l should be too far off…

I know everyone will say Holden V6 a better option, but I like fords… and as Nailz said about his V6 ‘7, it wasn’t the most reliable ever… and 5m/7m, yup all good options but injected, and I want it to be simple. 2jz/1uz? I wish, but costs would blow my budget to pieces.

I realise it wont be the most economical beasty ever, but the 4.0l is quite a torquey low reving motor, so should suit a 4x4 quite well.

Also not sure how easy it will be to waterproof…

Any ideas? Suggestions?

This wont be something that happens overnight, im not made of money, and I will gather as many bits and pieces together before I start as possible, but I am thinking it should be a reasonably easy conversion.

[H2OLOVA]

Only hassle with carbs as opposed to injection is if you do much work on angles (hills, sidlings etc) then the carb may run out of gas whereas with the injection it doesn't matter. Just something else to think about.

[Sadam_Husain]

havent heard of a 4.1 falcon motor going into a surf but my mate put one into his landrover about 25 years ago and it went well, it had much better power and torque than the standard holden swap of the era. He had to run a remote oil filter on it to get the engine to fit, the standard filter wouldnt fit coz of the chassis rail or something like that?

He made his own adaptor plate for the LR box, I dont know if anyboy makes an adaptor for falcon to surf?

[nstg8a]

I dont know if anyboy makes an adaptor for falcon to surf?

im sure it wouldnt too hard to get sorted, people have been sticking all manner of toyota g'boxes in falcons for decades...

[86-surf]

What about a holden 202? Cant member if you were asking for engine sugestions or not so i thought i may aswell:D ,they sond grunty as, i was thinking about puting one into my surf but yea yano i have a wild mind,

3.3 202 Engine:
Capacity: 202 cubic inches (3.310 litres)
Type: Conventional, watercooled four stroke, reciprocating piston type with 6 cylinders
Configuration: Front mounted, longitudinal, inline
Head: Pushrod and rocker actuated ohv with two valves per cylinder
Fuel System: Bendix-Stromberg single barrel downdraft type carburettor
Bore and Stroke: 3.625 x 3.25 inches (92.0 x 82.5mm)
Power: 135bhp (101kw) at 4400rpm
Torque: 194lb-ft (263Nm) at 2000rpm
Compression Ratio: 9.4:1

4.1 litre "Alloy Head" Six:
Capacity: 250 cubic inches (4.10 litres)
Type: Alluminium Alloy cross-flow pushrod valve actuation, chain driven camshaft, watercooled four stroke, reciprocating piston type with 6 cylinders
Bottom end: Seven bearing crankshaft
Configuration: Front mounted, longitudinal, inline
Head: Pushrod and rocker actuated ohv with two valves per cylinder
Fuel System: Weber ADM twin venturi downdraft, sequential throttle, fixed jet carburettor
Bore and Stroke: 93 x 99mm
Power: 103kw at 3750rpm
Torque: 316Nm at 2400rpm
Compression Ratio: 9.35:1

OR you could go for a 4.1 v8

253 V8 Engine:
Capacity: 253 cubic inches (4.146 litres)
Type: Conventional, watercooled four stroke, reciprocating piston type with 8 cylinders
Configuration: Front mounted, longitudinal, Vee configuration
Head: Pushrod and rocker actuated ohv with two valves per cylinder
Fuel System: Twin barrel Bendix-Stromberg carburettor
Bore and Stroke: 3.625 x 3.062 inches (92.0 x 77.7mm)
Power: 185bhp (138kw) at 4400rpm
Torque: 262lb-ft (355Nm) at 2400rpm
Compression Ratio: 9.0:1

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motor ... 369122.htm

$106 on trademe

really the only diffrence is that ford is 4.1l and the holden is a 3.3 and the torque

[nstg8a]

really the only diffrence is that ford is 4.1l and the holden is a 3.3 and the torque

the ford motor has basically continued on in production from the 60's right through to the end of the au... with some 'minor' tweaks of course...
where as the holden stopped in production aound 1986? much easier to get a good lowish km 4.1

yup, the torque is what i want...

and theres bajillions of 4.1's sitting in wreckers...
if i had to go holden i would probably go 3.8 V6 rather than an old 202...

[Smurf]

4.1 does fit.
I have seen two Luxes with them fitted, We used to bump into them regularly in Reefton each New Years.
Can't remember names now...
I think they may have had a bit of firewall tweaking, not sure though.
but yeah I reckon you'll be needing pusher fans in front of the radiator.
my father in law used to run earlier 4.1 in his trials Jeep years ago, always had issues with oil pressure so fitting a hi pressure pump is a good idea.
I''d look at running the falcon auto and adapting the surf transfer to it. or running a Nissan divorced case behind the auto, if there was the room.

If going carby instead of injected, consider running LPG, as you won't have issues with it leaning out on angles etc.

I have a mate that is in the process of fitting an injected 4.0 into his J20 Jeep. There is enough room under the bonnet to fit two 4.0s side by side.
The wiring side of it sounded pretty straight forward. He bought a complete car way cheaper than buying just the motor, also gives you other parts you may need. (eg. Rear leaf springs for spring swap.... )
That way you can use the factory loom. he is also fitting the falcon dash(electronic) as well.
I'm sure he wouldn't mind helping you with the wiring if you go with the 4.1
He has fitted extractors running to twin pipes up behind the cab.
Sounds wicked

If you haven't already have a read of Suprasurfs site for the 5m swap, its easier than you may think
http://www.4wd.net.nz/suprasurf_part0.htm

You need to do a SAS first though. really.

[nstg8a]

4.1 does fit.
I have seen two Luxes with them fitted, We used to bump into them regularly in Reefton each New Years.
Can't remember names now...
I think they may have had a bit of firewall tweaking, not sure though.
but yeah I reckon you'll be needing pusher fans in front of the radiator.
my father in law used to run earlier 4.1 in his trials Jeep years ago, always had issues with oil pressure so fitting a hi pressure pump is a good idea.
I''d look at running the falcon auto and adapting the surf transfer to it. or running a Nissan divorced case behind the auto, if there was the room.

If going carby instead of injected, consider running LPG, as you won't have issues with it leaning out on angles etc.

I have a mate that is in the process of fitting an injected 4.0 into his J20 Jeep. There is enough room under the bonnet to fit two 4.0s side by side.
The wiring side of it sounded pretty straight forward. He bought a complete car way cheaper than buying just the motor, also gives you other parts you may need. (eg. Rear leaf springs for spring swap.... )
That way you can use the factory loom. he is also fitting the falcon dash(electronic) as well.
I'm sure he wouldn't mind helping you with the wiring if you go with the 4.1
He has fitted extractors running to twin pipes up behind the cab.
Sounds wicked

If you haven't already have a read of Suprasurfs site for the 5m swap, its easier than you may think
http://www.4wd.net.nz/suprasurf_part0.htm

You need to do a SAS first though. really.

yeah, the 5m (etc) is a sensible swap, but im kinda liking the idea of having something ford powered again

dont like the idea of running a ford auto, they are notorious for sapping plenty of horespower...

im hoping to do as much as possible myself to keep costs down, which is the main objective for now...
i dont know how much longer i have before my 2lt decides to follow its thousands of broken brothers to the scrap heap, but its pretending to be pretty bulletproof at the moment, so hopefully il have a bit of time to get something sorted.

[Nailz]

Dont be such a girl Stacey. Go for the lexus 4.0....
If you jump Ill jump too...(unless I get a SWB 70 Series Cruiser which Im looking at with a 4.2 turbo)
Falcon motor would be too heavy and not produce as much power as a lexus.
You could put a XR6 Turbo engine in....Thatd fu*king snot man!
Im just rebuilding my surf as a 2LTE due to not being able to get myself a 3L.

[cornfarmer]

Go for a V8, something small... like a diesel 350 chev . Then you can whack on a set of 37" Super swampers. I'd go diesel myself. Too many problems with petrols. Like when you roll and petrol starts leaking onto hot or sparking stuff. Plus as soon as you put a blue oval badge in the equation the dang thing will rust out.

[smurf182]

Go for a V8, something small... like a diesel 350 chev .

Why you'd want to replace a boat anchor with an even larger boat anchor I have no idea. The 5.7 GM diesel is widely regarded as the worst diesel engine ever manufactured. A 6.2/6.5 Chevy diesel.. well now you're talkin, but in a Surf?

[nstg8a]

Dont be such a girl Stacey. Go for the lexus 4.0....
If you jump Ill jump too...(unless I get a SWB 70 Series Cruiser which Im looking at with a 4.2 turbo)
Falcon motor would be too heavy and not produce as much power as a lexus.
You could put a XR6 Turbo engine in....Thatd fu*king snot man!
Im just rebuilding my surf as a 2LTE due to not being able to get myself a 3L.

way outa my depth playing with a lexus... both financially and knowledge wise...

and xr6t has already been considered... but you seen how much theyre worth?

[Nailz]

just pawn off your missus....

Hopefully i get to fly to auckland this evening and get my new surf....so excited i could piss my pants....

Grant should be able to sort you out with any fabrication stuff, and because its been done before, often, thats what id be going for...

[nstg8a]

just pawn off your missus....

Hopefully i get to fly to auckland this evening and get my new surf....so excited i could piss my pants....

Grant should be able to sort you out with any fabrication stuff, and because its been done before, often, thats what id be going for...

you getn that 4-runner? you better put some scratches in it before you come down... otherwise i will... its way to shiny the way it is.

only mulling over transplant options at the mo anyway, hell you know me, il change my mind tomorrow anyway...

ive thought about a 70 cruiser as well... but im kinda attached to the surf now... just want more power.

The whole reasoning behind the coon motor is that theyre cheap as chips, mega-reliable, and with the right work can be pretty damn grunty. and they have like three wires to hool up lol...

[petefj40]

If I were you, I'd go for the Lexus V8 mate!! Cheapest bang for your buck. But hey if you want the more bang and not worried about your buck, do what i did and go for the 5.7l Chevy LS1 V8. Light, heaps of low down grunt. With little effort you can get 400 horses out it. But hey, there's nothing wrong with the Ford. I'd be interested to hear what you do. Goodluck!

[petefj40]

Go for a V8, something small... like a diesel 350 chev . Then you can whack on a set of 37" Super swampers. I'd go diesel myself. Too many problems with petrols. Like when you roll and petrol starts leaking onto hot or sparking stuff. Plus as soon as you put a blue oval badge in the equation the dang thing will rust out.

"Like when you roll petrol starts leaking onto hot or sparking stuff". ??
Umm. Maybe I was very lucky with my petrol V8 when it rolled (as you can see in my current avatar)? I had no problems with leaking petrol on hot sparking stuff. Sooo...yeah. Go the petrol V8s!!

[H2OLOVA]

Umm. Maybe I was very lucky with my petrol V8 when it rolled (as you can see in my current avatar)? I had no problems with leaking petrol on hot sparking stuff. Sooo...yeah. Go the petrol V8s!!

Thats cause your truck is running an EFI motor. Electronic Fuel Injection which means no carb for the fuel to leak from. Its a sealed unit so to speak. You'd have to rupture a fuel line or something before you had any fire danger.

[petefj40]

Umm. Maybe I was very lucky with my petrol V8 when it rolled (as you can see in my current avatar)? I had no problems with leaking petrol on hot sparking stuff. Sooo...yeah. Go the petrol V8s!!

Thats cause your truck is running an EFI motor. Electronic Fuel Injection which means no carb for the fuel to leak from. Its a sealed unit so to speak. You'd have to rupture a fuel line or something before you had any fire danger.

How right you are!
I forgot people still use those dirty smelly carby thingies.
So the answer is even easier. Buy a Electronic Fuel Injected V8!

[ELEV8]

Umm. Maybe I was very lucky with my petrol V8 when it rolled (as you can see in my current avatar)? I had no problems with leaking petrol on hot sparking stuff. Sooo...yeah. Go the petrol V8s!!

Thats cause your truck is running an EFI motor. Electronic Fuel Injection which means no carb for the fuel to leak from. Its a sealed unit so to speak. You'd have to rupture a fuel line or something before you had any fire danger.

How right you are!
I forgot people still use those dirty smelly carby thingies.
So the answer is even easier. Buy a Electronic Fuel Injected V8!

agreed

buy mine

[nstg8a]

How right you are!
I forgot people still use those dirty smelly carby thingies.
So the answer is even easier. Buy a Electronic Fuel Injected V8!

agreed

buy mine

mate, i wish lol.....

dfinitly looking at other trucks at the moment, looks like it will be cheaper to buy a truck thats already had everything done to it.

[hosehustler]

If I were you, I'd go for the Lexus V8 mate!! Cheapest bang for your buck. But hey if you want the more bang and not worried about your buck, do what i did and go for the 5.7l Chevy LS1 V8. Light, heaps of low down grunt. With little effort you can get 400 horses out it. But hey, there's nothing wrong with the Ford. I'd be interested to hear what you do. Goodluck!

didn't that cost +$13,000....did you say cheapest bang for buck there with a lexus as well
try this for size a 2.8L injected supra 6 cost me $400 for the whole car with a bent chassis(+$20 fuel to tow the shitter home) , I sold the g/box out of it for $400,that makes donor engine/bellhousing?comp?fuel pump.............. free ....and still had parts to sell
did someone mention best bang for buck

[swampa]

ba xr6 turbo, go on, do it, that will be my next project engine, choice or a sr20det, or supercharged 3.8 v6, none of these are cheap but you get what you pay for

[nstg8a]

to me the price of the engine is only a small amouont of the total cost, if you have to get a efi engine wired up by a sparky then it can get bloody expensive real fast, so if i go for a conversion (or dont just sell mine lol) then i want to do as much as poss my self, that means carby, at least for the time being. theres a surf on tardme with a old holden 202 in it, that seems to be a fairly capable offroader, and hes just running a surge tank up the front, might be a plan for mine.

or, one of you guys with a supra powered hilux could just sell it to me

[swampa]

if the key is to keep it as simple as possible the rover v8 with twin su carbs cant be beat

[nstg8a]

if the key is to keep it as simple as possible the rover v8 with twin su carbs cant be beat

ahh, but the 4.1 is a bit future proof.... easy to swap over to efi later on, once my money tree bears fruit

[NJV6]

ahh, but the 4.1 is a bit future proof.... easy to swap over to efi later on, once my money tree bears fruit

Likewise with the Rover......

And its a V8

[scotty36]

hi go for the ford .About time some one looking out side the square .Good luck

[petefj40]

If I were you, I'd go for the Lexus V8 mate!! Cheapest bang for your buck. But hey if you want the more bang and not worried about your buck, do what i did and go for the 5.7l Chevy LS1 V8. Light, heaps of low down grunt. With little effort you can get 400 horses out it. But hey, there's nothing wrong with the Ford. I'd be interested to hear what you do. Goodluck!

didn't that cost +$13,000....did you say cheapest bang for buck there with a lexus as well
try this for size a 2.8L injected supra 6 cost me $400 for the whole car with a bent chassis(+$20 fuel to tow the shitter home) , I sold the g/box out of it for $400,that makes donor engine/bellhousing?comp?fuel pump.............. free ....and still had parts to sell
did someone mention best bang for buck

YIP! I mentioned "best bang for your buck"!
And $13,000? Nup. $16,000 actually. Well, that's if you're talking about the Chevy 5.7L LS1 that went into my FJ40. But I wasn't talking about THAT being the cheapest bang for your buck. I was talking about the Lexus V8. I'm no fan of them and I don't pretend to know all about them. That's only what I was told..
Hey I'm sure you can buy an old banger for next to nothing and salvage bits off it that'll be cheaper than buying a Lexus.
Goodluck!

[hosehustler]

Reality is you can get a lexus onversion done certified and completed by a local firm for $9,000 and it is a superb top workmanship job from start to finish, looked at doing one in my fathers lux, the motor is the cheap part at about $1500, you still need a flywheel, bellhousing, clutch, fuel pump, radiator, fans, and a mddified or aftermarket computer to run it, then certify it.
All up to do a lexus conversion even completing the work myself it wou;d still cost arond $4500-$6000
That isn't best bang for buck.
A 2jz six pack is more powerful later design engine and cheaper to do by far.
Back on topic tho this chap is looking at keeping his costs well and truly down, not everyone has huge amounts of money to waste on toys, so the old 5mge supra conversion is by far the best bang for buck, if you find a cheap manual car you can complete the conversion yourslf certified for around $1500, less if you are lucky enough to get one for a song.
The 4.1 falcon conversion will probably be a similar cost if not more, thirstier, and not EFI.

[petefj40]

"That isn't the best bang for your buck".

It's good to hear what really is then. I'm sure your thoughts will help a lot of people who are looking at getting the most for their dollar.
There's no doubt in my mind. I should of done a lot more research before parting with $16k for what i got. No question at all. But after my twin brother had a V8 put in his FJ40, I fell in love with it. I had to have one. And was lucky enough to be able to afford it. But i rushed into it. I wasn't a member of ORE at the time either. It was an expensive excise, but i learnt a lot from it. And gain a few friends along the way.

Back to the thread.
It would be interesting to hear what you end up putting in your surf.
I agree, It would be outside the square to see a Ford in one. But kinda cool at the same time.
Keep us posted eh!