The Winch Challenges seem to have dropped of. Why? Is it a rule problem, a club problem, what??
Rick
What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
4wdRick wrote:The Winch Challenges seem to have dropped of. Why? Is it a rule problem, a club problem, what??
Rick
North Island or South Island?
NorWest event - 7th to 9th March 08 http://www.norwestohv.co.nz/winch_challenge.htm
Rotorua (Geyserland Clu) event - 1st or 2nd weekend of August, can't remember which.
Northland event - date yet to be determined, possibly May / June.
Some info here http://www.4x4challenges.org.nz/ Have a look around the forum.
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
Morning Mitch.
Was halfway through responding to that message too. I also heard that there may be a larger end of year event on. Will have to wait and see.
The Geyserland club have decided on the second weekend of July for its Rotorua Challenge. But we are still in the planning stages.
We need to get a full calender together so everyone can plan the year out. Will try our best to avoid all other events. ha, not easy.
Cheers
Jungle
Was halfway through responding to that message too. I also heard that there may be a larger end of year event on. Will have to wait and see.
The Geyserland club have decided on the second weekend of July for its Rotorua Challenge. But we are still in the planning stages.
We need to get a full calender together so everyone can plan the year out. Will try our best to avoid all other events. ha, not easy.
Cheers
Jungle
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
North Island.
I'm in the South Island (known as New Zealand)
We keep hearing about internal bickering in the North (the funny Island) and there seems to be a lot less enthuasam about the sport than there was 2 or 3 years ago, Why?
Rick
I'm in the South Island (known as New Zealand)
We keep hearing about internal bickering in the North (the funny Island) and there seems to be a lot less enthuasam about the sport than there was 2 or 3 years ago, Why?
Rick
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
Are you trying to sucker someone in to saying something they may regret.
Not for me this time.
Like all sports they have good and bad years. Go the AB's. ha.
I have a plan to send all the trouble makers down south. Plenty of room down there. Might bring a few of you good bastards up here as an exchange program.
Not to worry though. We will keep the sport alive. This year should be a cracker.
Cheers
Jungle
Not for me this time.
Like all sports they have good and bad years. Go the AB's. ha.
I have a plan to send all the trouble makers down south. Plenty of room down there. Might bring a few of you good bastards up here as an exchange program.
Not to worry though. We will keep the sport alive. This year should be a cracker.
Cheers
Jungle
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
Jungle wrote:Morning Mitch.
Was halfway through responding to that message too. I also heard that there may be a larger end of year event on. Will have to wait and see.
The Geyserland club have decided on the second weekend of July for its Rotorua Challenge. But we are still in the planning stages.
We need to get a full calender together so everyone can plan the year out. Will try our best to avoid all other events. ha, not easy.
Cheers
Jungle
Hey dude,
My bad, July it is for Rotorua.
Am also aware of a larger "end of year" event being planned George. No doubt further details will come through as the event comes together.
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
4wdRick wrote:North Island.
I'm in the South Island (known as New Zealand)
We keep hearing about internal bickering in the North (the funny Island) and there seems to be a lot less enthuasam about the sport than there was 2 or 3 years ago, Why?
Rick
Not sure where you get that idea from Rick.
Just as many events last year as any year previous. i.e Norwest, Whakatane Tuff Truck, Rotorua, Whangarei etc, plus Manukau Club day winch challenge and Rotorua Club day winch challenge.....the exception was there was no Kiwi or Denny's in 2007.
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
No Whakatane event this year as it's held every second year. If the events are all go how come there is no mention of them on the 4x4challenges site? arnt they supposed to be the governing body of winch challenging in the North Island? seems like not much communication between event organisers and 4x4challenges.org
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021 273 9942
jafa@inspire.net.nz
^^^this shite is all about to change....^^^
021 273 9942
jafa@inspire.net.nz
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
Hey Jafa.
More can of worms wanting to be opened.
I wont speak for other event organisers. But our club has been running winch challenges for a while and most would agree that they are run pretty well. I suppose we see the governing body as wanting money to assist us with an event that we can run just fine without them. I suppose we will have to wait until there is an official series before a governing body will work.
I will try my best to get a calender out there of all the events for 2008 so people can plan around them. Whether or not the results will be combined to give us a North Island Champion is yet to be seen.
Does that help.
Jungle
More can of worms wanting to be opened.
I wont speak for other event organisers. But our club has been running winch challenges for a while and most would agree that they are run pretty well. I suppose we see the governing body as wanting money to assist us with an event that we can run just fine without them. I suppose we will have to wait until there is an official series before a governing body will work.
I will try my best to get a calender out there of all the events for 2008 so people can plan around them. Whether or not the results will be combined to give us a North Island Champion is yet to be seen.
Does that help.
Jungle
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
Taken directly from the 4x4Challenges website "The aim of 4x4 Challenges is to promote the growth and development of winch challenge throughout New Zealand which includes facilitating events and maintaining the rules and standards." The emphasis in bold was added by me for effect.
Basically, if organisers need help with an event, 4x4Challenges are happy to assist however they can. That be by providing advice / guidance or radios for marshalling (as examples). If an organiser does not require assistance, it is not 4x4Challenge's position at all that they (4x4Challenges) must be included.
So if Rotorua Club run their event (as they have done for the last 5 years) without 4x4Challenges assistance, then they are not obligated to post on the 4x4Challenges website.
The main complaint I hear from competitors is that they want one common set of rules, with adequate lead-in time for any rules changes (vehicle or winching safety). So the rules have been developed requiring numerous hours of volunteer's time and the development of a website etc for hosting them. Competitors and event organisers have been happy to make use of the rules provided by 4x4Challenges over the years (freely available on the website), with ammendments to suit certain situations, so any fee would be a token gesture and that I believe would be a small price to pay. I can't recall exactly, but I think the idea of the fee may have been dropped anyway.
Basically, if organisers need help with an event, 4x4Challenges are happy to assist however they can. That be by providing advice / guidance or radios for marshalling (as examples). If an organiser does not require assistance, it is not 4x4Challenge's position at all that they (4x4Challenges) must be included.
So if Rotorua Club run their event (as they have done for the last 5 years) without 4x4Challenges assistance, then they are not obligated to post on the 4x4Challenges website.
The main complaint I hear from competitors is that they want one common set of rules, with adequate lead-in time for any rules changes (vehicle or winching safety). So the rules have been developed requiring numerous hours of volunteer's time and the development of a website etc for hosting them. Competitors and event organisers have been happy to make use of the rules provided by 4x4Challenges over the years (freely available on the website), with ammendments to suit certain situations, so any fee would be a token gesture and that I believe would be a small price to pay. I can't recall exactly, but I think the idea of the fee may have been dropped anyway.
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
"Top of the South" Winch Challenge will be run again over Queens Bithday weekend. Planning is well under way, & we'll be open for entries fairly soon. Same location as last year (Mt Riley), but the date change will eliminate concerns regarding fire risks and guarantee lots of mud. The plan is to run a few night stages (probably 4) on the Saturday night, and run 12 stages on the Sun. Several new routes are being developed, so there'll be a few surprises for those who came last year. Cost will be similar to last year ($150).
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
Jungle wrote:Are you trying to sucker someone in to saying something they may regret.
Not for me this time.
Hell no, we are having our SI meeting soon and were wondering what the problems were so that we can try and avoid them from the start.
I DO NOT want to stir any trouble, I'm just hoping that a little info will help us now and in the future.
Muddy....I will be there ready to play
Rick
Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
The problems that Mitch touched on were created by ad hock competitions. 4x4 Challenges has tried to get things unified and has to a major extent succeeded. There is a series in place with consistent rules so that is a big improvement upon what was there. 4x4 Challenges isn't perfect, but then nothing ever will be. Mitch and I (and other competitors) got involved so that we could help those helping us, to create a more representative organising body. All that is really needed now is for more people to put up their hand as far as organising comps go.
The comps being organised in the SI are great and no one can criticize anythig being done down there as it is a huge plus to the sport etc. BUT the sooner everything is run from one place the less likely there are to be 'growing pains'! Obviously the last thing that is wanted is for anyone to to be put offside and feel they are been told what to do, as that is not what is happening. It is about people who have knowledge trying to help others to do it better.
Their have been problems in the NI comps so if the experience gained from dealing with these problems can be passed on and help stop them happening again, then that should be a good thing that is welcomed!
It will be great hen there is a true National Series as what is called the National Series doesn't include anything in the SI YET. I think it has been said before that a series like the ORANZ series would be ideal but a few things need to progress.
I think the NI event organisers have learnt from the success of the SI Clubmans class. I for one used a version last year and the Nor-West comp is as well.
But to have a true 'elite' national series the safety rules as developed by 4x4 Challenges must be used. These rules are similar to what is used in Oz but have been developed for NZ conditions. There are things in the rules that can be changed but there are things that really you are taking your life into your own hands it you ignore them. ie A lot of trucks up here are being built to do both ORANZ and winch events so the potential speeds ar huge! Put 400 or 500hp into anything and you have to have full rollcages etc. The Clubmans class means people can get into the sport and have fun but past that it is a serious motorsport and needs to be treated as such. There have been guys killed in Oz and I think it is luck so far that NZ has escaped.
It appears that we will have a series in the NI like last year, Nor-West in March, Northland in May and Rotorua in July and hopefully a big comp to finish the year. It would be great to have some new faces from the SI compete in the end of year event then maybe next year the end of year event is in the SI and we come down there! I for one would be a keen starter for a Kiwi Challenge in the SI somewhere!!!!!!!!!
These areonly my thoughts as a competitor of several years, an event organiser, a member of 4x4 Challenges and a part of he rules comittee.
I
The comps being organised in the SI are great and no one can criticize anythig being done down there as it is a huge plus to the sport etc. BUT the sooner everything is run from one place the less likely there are to be 'growing pains'! Obviously the last thing that is wanted is for anyone to to be put offside and feel they are been told what to do, as that is not what is happening. It is about people who have knowledge trying to help others to do it better.
Their have been problems in the NI comps so if the experience gained from dealing with these problems can be passed on and help stop them happening again, then that should be a good thing that is welcomed!
It will be great hen there is a true National Series as what is called the National Series doesn't include anything in the SI YET. I think it has been said before that a series like the ORANZ series would be ideal but a few things need to progress.
I think the NI event organisers have learnt from the success of the SI Clubmans class. I for one used a version last year and the Nor-West comp is as well.
But to have a true 'elite' national series the safety rules as developed by 4x4 Challenges must be used. These rules are similar to what is used in Oz but have been developed for NZ conditions. There are things in the rules that can be changed but there are things that really you are taking your life into your own hands it you ignore them. ie A lot of trucks up here are being built to do both ORANZ and winch events so the potential speeds ar huge! Put 400 or 500hp into anything and you have to have full rollcages etc. The Clubmans class means people can get into the sport and have fun but past that it is a serious motorsport and needs to be treated as such. There have been guys killed in Oz and I think it is luck so far that NZ has escaped.
It appears that we will have a series in the NI like last year, Nor-West in March, Northland in May and Rotorua in July and hopefully a big comp to finish the year. It would be great to have some new faces from the SI compete in the end of year event then maybe next year the end of year event is in the SI and we come down there! I for one would be a keen starter for a Kiwi Challenge in the SI somewhere!!!!!!!!!
These areonly my thoughts as a competitor of several years, an event organiser, a member of 4x4 Challenges and a part of he rules comittee.
I
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PeterVahry
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Re: What is happening with the Winch Challenge rounds
Thanks Darin for that note on 4x4 Challenges NZ. There are no issues with winch challenges as I see it, apart from the usual situation that it takes a bit to get people involved.
The earlier comment that 4x4 Challenges NZ wants money, is a bit unfair as it was event organisers who suggested that some return could be provided to 4x4 Challenges for the support provided. As the current president of 4x4 Challenges NZ I have to say that we have no present income stream and are running on the funds generated from the 2003/04 events. The core team of 4x4 Challenges NZ had been involved in all the major events since 2000 and in 2005 decided to take a rest by trialing another approach to winch challenge management.
Our intention is to have competitors join 4x4 Challenges NZ so they have a voice in the direction of the events and to help with income. That's not something that people are rushing to do and yet we keep getting questioned... if competitors were members then maybe they'd know more!
Why is the Geyserland event not shown on the 4x4 Challenges web site... because 4x4 Challenges have not yet been informed of that planned event. It's tough trying to create an event calendar in these circumstances but hopefully the planning will eventually be long enough in advance to be able to do so.
4x4 Challenges NZ is trying to provide the support for events and the continuity of the winch challenge concept but it needs help to achieve that from organisers and competitors.
The earlier comment that 4x4 Challenges NZ wants money, is a bit unfair as it was event organisers who suggested that some return could be provided to 4x4 Challenges for the support provided. As the current president of 4x4 Challenges NZ I have to say that we have no present income stream and are running on the funds generated from the 2003/04 events. The core team of 4x4 Challenges NZ had been involved in all the major events since 2000 and in 2005 decided to take a rest by trialing another approach to winch challenge management.
Our intention is to have competitors join 4x4 Challenges NZ so they have a voice in the direction of the events and to help with income. That's not something that people are rushing to do and yet we keep getting questioned... if competitors were members then maybe they'd know more!
Why is the Geyserland event not shown on the 4x4 Challenges web site... because 4x4 Challenges have not yet been informed of that planned event. It's tough trying to create an event calendar in these circumstances but hopefully the planning will eventually be long enough in advance to be able to do so.
4x4 Challenges NZ is trying to provide the support for events and the continuity of the winch challenge concept but it needs help to achieve that from organisers and competitors.