Ball joint flip

NJV6 · Post by **NJV6** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:22 pm

HI there,

Now I realise this doens't apply to many people here with a solid front axle but for those of us that run IFS, has anyone done the ball joint flip in the front to regain down travel and what do we reckon about it?

I understand the concept and the reservations many will have about mounting the ball joint on the bottom side of the mount, so has anyone had experinces with it either good or bad?

NJ

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:39 am

Sounds like an interesting concept. I have a Terrano, would it be possible to do the "Flip" on my front end? Could you explain what is involved, as I haven't heard of anyone doing this at all. What would be the possible side efffects, eg unstable road manners, etc.

Cheers
Al

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:21 pm

I have done it to my pajero and it is as simple as putting the ball joint on the other side. i cranked up my torsions 70mm in the front, removed the sway bars andhave had no problems. Still handles fine with the adjustable suspension on hard.

I have the 3.5l with the factory body lift and clear 35x13.5 Baja claws without any guard rub at that height. I wouldnt take it any higher as the axles are getting on quite and angle. I have also fitted some manual hubs to save my Cv boots a bit.

matwelli · Post by **matwelli** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:19 am

doddzee - photo please, would like to see this.
I had read about flipping the top wishbone location to get the geometry back into shape when lifting above 50mm, but have not seen anything on a ball joint flip.

NJV6 · Post by **NJV6** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:08 am

Your upper balljoint is mounted to the top of your upper control arm, (3 8mm bolts on a Pajero) and protrudes down through a hole. The top of the steering knuckle then connects to this balljoint.

Some people move the upper balljoint to the underside of the upper control arm. This effectively move the control arm further from the bumpstop, allowing more droop travel. Adding a spacer between the balljoint and the arm opens the gap further, allowing even more droop travel.
A few things to be wary of thou, with the original setup, if the bolts fail the balljoint is trapped in the hole in the control arm. Once you have "flipped" the balljoint, it is ONLY the bolts (8mm bolts) keeping the upper balljoint in place. If the bolts fail (for whatever reason) the upper balljoint will separate from the control arm, and the wheel is no longer controlled. This is major bad news, and it has happened. I have heard of people drilling out the holes to fit 10mm bolts in.

Allan, I'm not sure what a Terrano's front end is like to know if it is possible.

Doddzee, Do you have aisin FWH's? And have you trimmed upper bumpstops as well?

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:13 am

Yes i have trimmed the bump stops to about half of what they oringally were. Im not sure what FWH's i put on it i will check.

I have also replaced the 8mm bolts with 10mm which fit easily just as long as your washers are not to big.

Will get some photos for you all.

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:29 am

I have added a couple of photos of the pajero will add some of the ball joint flip.

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/images/ ... j_lift.jpg
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/images/ ... .sized.jpg

NJV6 · Post by **NJV6** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:28 pm

Hi Doddzee, Nice pic's I notice on the one with the claws on you still have the rear swaybar on - without it on it free's up the rear quite noticeably. Without the front one on also is great off road but it also is terrible on the road.

I presume you would have had to drill out the holes to get 10mm bolts in? I haven't got mine jacked up too high (clears 33's with plenty to spare) but it is getting a little close to the trimmed bumpstops. I'd be doing the Ball joint flip not to go higher, rather to get the 'sitting height' close to in the middle of it's travel, having very little down travel is not much fun.

I also have the 3.5 with factory body lift and think I would be pretty close to clearing 35's without another body lift, alot would depend on the rim offset. I imagine the gearing would be a little scary on a downhill in one of these on 35's.
NJ

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:48 pm

Here are some pics of the ball joint flip

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/images/ ... GP1559.jpg

http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/images/ ... GP1558.jpg

NJV6 since then i have removed both swaybars and they have made next to no difference on road i have found but have freed it up a bit for off road.

I tried the bajas on as originally i was going to built it up into a hard yakka truck but the futher i got into it, (after buying 35 inch maxxis mudzillas and beadlocks) i decided i didnt want to wreck a tidy pajero. As well as not being able to get rear lockers for them and having to mess around with the gearing as you are right down hills with them on is very scary as i almost rolled it the first time i tried to back down a hill. So it is as modified as it is going to get.

Instead i bought myself a 21st prezzy and got a nissan safari which i am currently chopping into a ute and will be fitting a 350 chev.

NJV6 · Post by **NJV6** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:01 pm

doddzee wrote:having to mess around with the gearing as you are right down hills with them on is very scary as i almost rolled it the first time i tried to back down a hill.

I got my name on a set from ozzy when they finally get them sorted....

And a diff lock when they do that... (if ever)

doddzee wrote:Instead i bought myself a 21st prezzy and got a nissan safari which i am currently chopping into a ute and will be fitting a 350 chev.

matwelli · Post by **matwelli** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:36 am

Thanks for the photos, have you noticed any improvement doing this ?

Re the sway bar removal, I have had the front one removed for about the last 2000 ks, you have to pay a bit more respect to the sign posted corners, but nothing too dramatic, even the wife will drive it without a prob.

Are you guys running auto or manual trans when you are having problems with hill descent ?

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:16 am

The gears are being made at the moment. I think a few people are waiting for them.

Im runnning manual trans and low ratio just isnt low enough!

I thought id struck it lucky finding a factory rear diff lock for it. I bought one from a guy down south, got it fitted only to pull out an axle half way through to find out it was i 3.0l rear end. So i have a factory rear difflock with everything you need for a 3.0l if anyone wants one.

NJV6 · Post by **NJV6** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:50 pm

Yep Mine is a manual one as well. Uphills is fine through sheer grunt but downhills involves alot of brakes or outright speed.....

A friend of ours approached someone in auckland with a Jaffa truck used for the school run..... a NZ new 2.8Tdi with the diff lock and talked them into swapping diffs & parts so he could get the diff lock!

disfordog · Post by **disfordog** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:05 am

Allan wrote:Sounds like an interesting concept. I have a Terrano, would it be possible to do the "Flip" on my front end? Could you explain what is involved, as I haven't heard of anyone doing this at all. What would be the possible side efffects, eg unstable road manners, etc.

Cheers
Al

The WD21 Terrano/Pathfinder (1987-1995) already has the ball joint mounted under the upper control arm (UCA). a couple of options are - You can bolt in an aftermarket spacer for aditional 1' of lift (or droop). Or replace the UCA's with aftermarket ones for 3' if lift.

Both these mods will require you to re-index your torsion bar adjusters to gain the aditional height, otherwise you will run out of adjustment before reaching the desired lift. You can start with this proceedure first as it costs nothing (a wheel alignment is manditory after performing any suspension tinkering up front). Beware that this does shift more vehicle weight to the rear and you may need to ad taller rear coil springs to even up the ride again.

Or a 3' body lift will help you get bigger tyres under there too. Because the Terrano body sits lower on the chassis than the 4wd ute versions, which makes it near impossible to get anything bigger the 30-31 inch rubber under them. Rim offset would be a factor too i guess...

Anyway, sorry for rambling, all i was going to do was drop a link here to the Terrano aftermarket ball joint spacers...

http://www.4x4parts.com/public_html/sho ... 1be64d841f

plenty of other upgrades there too...

ciao

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:11 pm

Thanks for the info. I had a look underneath and deduced that that was the case. I have read on other sites that AutoCustomisers are a bit dodgy, and there is also the frieght,duty etc when ordering from the US, so I will just stay with the raised torsion bar setup I am running now.
I already have a list of jobs for the Terrano this month, so won't be investigating suspension options again for awhile.

Cheers'
Al

WACKO · Post by **WACKO** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:46 pm

hey there. ive got a 93 convertible on 33s. doddze, what springs are in the back of that? ive got some kings but havnt put them in yet as i didnt want it sitting like a drag car, looks like i may have found the solution tho

, also, did you use spacers in the front?

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:44 pm

Ive got lwb kings in the rear lifted it bout 3 inches.

No didnt need spacers just the flip, cut the bump stops in half and crank the torsions. Make sure you leave a gap in between the bumpstop and chassis once you have wound them up or you will have no downward travel. Make sure you get an alighnment aswell

WACKO · Post by **WACKO** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:58 am

sweeeet!!! Mine are lwb aswell!!! how long are your shocks. how much do i need to save for that diff lock you have? what ratio?

spanky · Post by **spanky** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:47 pm

cant seem to see the photos of flip , does any one have some photos of this flip thing cheers
vaughan

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:20 pm

spanky · Post by **spanky** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:31 pm

cheers for that doddzee,a mate wants to do it to his paj, cheers
vaughan

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