Standard Toyota recovery hooks

[85BJ73]

I have the factory standard Toyota Landcruiser recovery hooks fitted to my winch bar, they don't have a rating stamped into them, do I need to replace them to comply with club trip rules? The Wanganui 4x4 club never oblected, but I see other clubs insist on rated hooks.
Also at the rear I have a clevis type set up, a u shaped arrangement made from 10-12mm (I forget the exact thickness) steel, bolted to the rear tow point, with an 8.8 M20 bolt through them as a rear recovery point. Will most clubs accept that?
I know it is plenty strong enough, as I have done many recoveries with this set up.
I worked in a mechanical/hydraulic workshop, and I know how much load it will take, but will others accept this, or do I have to fit rated hooks?
I have done a search, maybe I used the wrong key words, but I could not find any discussions on this.
Thanks

[curly12]

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=5470&hilit=sadam+tow+hook

[85BJ73]

Yeah, a curly one, I didn't read them all, as it seems to be going around in circles.
My mounts are heavier in steel than the one that got torn off, at least 6-8mm steel. By the looks of it, it is up to the organiser, but I just don't want to travel a long way, and be turned away. I never have been turned away yet, and don't want there to be a first time, can any one help me with guide lines? Would it help if I posted pic's?
Thanks

[Bubba]

This subject keeps coming up. In short, get rated hooks, they are cheap and it's better than killing somebody

[85BJ73]

I saw there was a day set up where trucks could be checked, any chance of another one of these days being set up?
Failing that, I am doing the White Rocks fundraiser this Sunday, any one going to be there to have a look at my set up?
We will be going down any way, so if I am able to meet up with some one down that way, or even if I have to pop over the hill into Wellies for some one to take a look, should the trip be cancelled due to rain, that could be done too, as we will be down that way due to us being well on the way if it is cancelled, we may as well carry on down.

[rangimotors]

short answer, replace them.

long rambling answer, factory hooks are no good, I'm sure your factory hooks are strong however it is the design and construction that lets them down. From time to time (and it only takes once to kill or do serious damage) your hooks will let you down, now from what i understand the rated hooks are designed to open up when overloaded and therefore release your strap and send it flying, the factory hooks are much much more likely to snap or not open and share off the bolts, both cases will send metal flying through the air at insane speeds.
The problem with having someone else check your truck is we really have no safe way of load testing gear and yes i am sure you could build something 10 times stronger than a rated hook but how do we really no? how and why would we bother trying to test build quality, breaking points etc when someone else has already done all the hard work for us and for 20 odd dollars stamps it on the side of a shinny hook. Personally if it was my job to check the trucks (hope not ) i don't think that i could 'pass' something without it having a stamp, how am i ever meant to no what it is, where it came from, who built it, how strong it is etc etc
Does all this ramble mean i wouldn't give you a tow? Na probably not i still would depending on the situation, but if someone running a trip said rated hooks only and you turned up without them then i guess you couldn't blame them if they turned you away.
Lets for a minute think of the worst case scenario, if a hook snapped and killed someone, wouldn't you at least like to say it was rated, rather than saying I'm sure it was as strong or stronger than a rated hook..

for 20 dollars why bother? the hardest most expensive part of mounting hooks it finding a suitable place to put them, you obviously already have this side sorted and new hooks will bolt straight on, they even come with 8.8 high tensile nuts and bolts.

[85BJ73]

Yeah, I had sorta come to that conclusion, but what about the rear one??

[rangimotors]

is it like one of these? http://www.4wdbits.co.nz/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=745
I wouldn't have an issue with that, some may argue, i guess all ya can do is let the trip leader no what you have and go from there, i like to think we all have a bit of common sense and I also like to think that its a case by case thing,
ya could always chuck up a picture of your setup and get a bit of input from the 'wise' members of ore.

[85BJ73]

I took pic's but can't work out how to get them to display here, I'm not overly computer savvy.....
What I have on the rear isn't like the pintle, picture a 10mm plate bolted to rear of vehicle where the pintle would fit, then two tongue's, (for want of a better description) 10mm thick protrudong rearwards, 100mm apart, on their flats, braced with a 20mm solid steel rod 1/2 way between the bolt and the mounting plate, then a M20 8.8 bolt between them.
It has been LTSA certed as a "tow point, capable of above 6000kg", but they would not specify an exact rating, to cover their asses I guess. Some trucks have a similar mount on the rear for towing older style trailers, it is similar to what a tractor has, is another way of describing it.
I am not trying to be a pain, or nusance, but try to conform with as many reasonable epectations/rules so I can do trips with minimum hassle.
As I said, the Wanganui 4x4 club had no issue with it for two years, and other "tag alongs" I have done have all been the same, no issues with any one. And I have never had any one refuse to have me tow/recover them.
I guess I will just have to wait and see about the rear, but I will replace the two standard Toyota ones on the front with rated hooks, as it will save any future hassles.
As for your other comment, I have been towed by a similar set up on the rear of my truck, and after inspecting it, decided it was safe, hence making one for mine, but I made mine heavier, guess when ya work on 20-40 ton diggers, ya kinda get used to things being big an heavy!!

[rangimotors]

sounds pretty beastly i now understand what your talking about, I'm sure with your job and experience your smart enough to no whats safe and what is not, your input will be valuable, its hard to find people who are willing to say yes its safe or no its not (because its there ass if it fails) so we have to rely on experienced guys with knowledge in the industry like yourself.
When i get a min or two ill have a look because there are some really good instructions on how to post pics, just can't remember where.

[85BJ73]

I'd appreciate help on posting pic's.
I have no problem helping and offering advice (that might be my weak point..... )
If some one needs help I might be able to provide, even out of town, and there is a trip on/nearby, and my budget allows, the moon aligns with.....you get the picture, I am only too happy to help, but I do tend to over engineer things.....my winch bar was rated at 20 ton....the cable is ony rated at 8, but I got lost with shear pins, bacause I never dealt with them on my side of things, and the hydraulics I worked with had key ways and splines, which I was tempted to install, but decided it might overload the pto, and cause more damage in the long run.....especially since I saw a Nissan pto lock in, after he installed too big a shear pin.......
Most of my knowledge is based on common sense, and make it bigger than ya will ever need.....plus the years of seeing others work fail.....and learning from their mistakes.
I did have one person object to my rear recover point, he is a lawyer, and told me no rating, no tow, so I told him fine, he gets stuck, I leave him there. He told trip leader of my "illegal" recovery point, I explained to trip leader what my back ground was, he in turn checked it off, no hesitation!!

[dazza85]

I'd appreciate help on posting pic's.

Thy this ...
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=306