4.5 litre turbo diesel Toyota motor

[85BJ73]

This motor intrigues me, the new(ish) Toyota 4.5 turbo intercooled diesel, I can't help but wonder how it would go in my 'Cruiser. I realise it has common rail injection, hence it will have some form of electonics to waterproof, vs my trusty 'ol 3B, which has less electronics than a 1960's calculator!!
Anyone know much/anything about these units? Possible pitfalls/snags of retrofitting into an older 'cruiser?
I have the misses 1/2 way to wanting it, she likes the idea of having a V8 back in the shed.....even if it is a diesel!
Sorry, maybe in the wrong forum? Can anyone tell me how to link/transfer it to the diesel engine forum?
Cheers,
Shane

[swampa]

my first guess would be well above the 10k just for the motor, you would really have to love the old cruiser

[tweake]

i saw one at the local garage. apparently they go well, drink a bit of gas tho. however the BIG downside is it doesn't sound like a v8

any transplant is possible but i hate to think what one would cost to buy. (10k would be bare motor, you basicly need a written off vechile..... at a guess in the 20k-40k range)
i would wait till all the bugs and tricks are worked out for them (and cost/demand for damaged ones comes down). being a single turbo and a variable turbo really throws a spanner in the works. would be nice to ditch the turbo and fit dual turbo's.

[KiwiBacon]

In europe toyota do a 2.2L 4 cyl diesel in the Avensis and other similar vehicles. The new landcruiser engine is basically two of those joined at the hip.

I had the pleasure of a short drive of a 200 series a couple of months back. It felt a lot tighter and crisper than the 100 series that I've driven, but to be honest I expected more go for the numbers it had.

[adogg]

ffffen great engine in single or twin turbo,had the pleasure to thrash both(70&200series while working for toyota) 450nm or thereabouts at 1200rpm makes for a very lusty engine,unfortunately toyota engines are built for longevity so they reduce the power levels to make em last,someone needs to be able to unlock the electronic brain on them(like flash tuning a ford or holden)and make some real power!!! I think electronic diesel tuning is still waaay behind petrols

[Jerry]

Something to be aware of with the common rail stuff is the price of parts, big ticket items are electric fuel pumps, injectors, I was quoted about 2g for 4 injectors for my diesel Zuk (Common Rail Peugot TD), The fuel pump didn't get a price on but was estimated to be heaps. luckily it turned out to be bad diesel or something so all it needed was a fuel tank drain and clean out of the fuel system.

They are very picky on fuel as well, any low quality diesel and it won't like it....

Go for a 350 chev or something......

[lilpigzuk]

i saw one at the local garage. apparently they go well, drink a bit of gas tho. however the BIG downside is it doesn't sound like a v8

.

the rangie TDV8 sounds like a V8 and fark me it goes like one too

[tweake]

Something to be aware of with the common rail stuff is the price of parts, big ticket items are electric fuel pumps, injectors, I was quoted about 2g for 4 injectors for my diesel Zuk (Common Rail Peugot TD), The fuel pump didn't get a price on but was estimated to be heaps. luckily it turned out to be bad diesel or something so all it needed was a fuel tank drain and clean out of the fuel system.

They are very picky on fuel as well, any low quality diesel and it won't like it....

Go for a 350 chev or something......

yeah that

to add..... emmisions has really dampened down the power a bit. later motrs do tend to be less powered than the specs would indicate. also they are complex and not cheap to repair. the fuel pumps are prone to a few problems and i have heard a few stories on comon rail injectors failing and blowing holes in pistons.

they do not like crap fuel one bit. also you have to watch things like fuel coolers don't get damaged (they heat the hell out of the fuel on long trips).

getting around the turbo is a tricky one as its part and parcel of the emmisions system, all ECU controled. if the ECU is rewritable no problems but a lot these days are not.

also some simply things like reseting the ECU fuel presure settings after changing fuel filter. i see that one stuffing up a few home mechanics.

[adogg]

also some simply things like reseting the ECU fuel presure settings after changing fuel filter. i see that one stuffing up a few home mechanics.

never heard that one,its more so keeping the fuel clean and changing filters reguarly,ressetting the fuel light is written on the sunvisor for cockys and home mechanic`s

[KiwiBacon]

Luckily enough most diesel engine makers shop at the same places for their fuel injection gear, so expect a reasonable amount of cross exchange with regards to tuning boxes and the like.

A good example is the bosch VE rotary pumps. The electronically controlled ones only have two main variants and aftermarket tuner guys (in europe where the market is) have both bases covered. Doesn't matter if it's a toyota, nissan or cummins the ecu signals are the same.

But just like petrol guys with carburettors and EFI, there's a lot of resistance. There was a thread on pirate where some clown spent $US8k to convert his disco back to carburettor.

[85BJ73]

Hmmmmm, thanks for all the feedback. The 'ol 3B is still running well, nearly done 200,000k's with no probs. I was floating the idea, because I know the 3B will fail one day, and I will wanna replace it with another oil burner with more power. Maybe when that day rolls around there will be some going cheaper, and someone will have sorted all that out by then......or I will be asking about hydrogen fuel cells!!
It is a bummer it does not sound like a V8, but oh well, ya can't have it all, and as for the fuel consumption, I read today in a 4x4 mag it is supposed to have better fuel consumption the the old turbo six it replaces.......but I do tend to take journalists reports with a grain of salt. Also the service intervals are longer, from 5000k up to 15,000
EDIT:I gotta admit, I am bad at starting to gather information light years ahead of me actually doing anything about it, and by then things have progressed.....and I need to rethink.
Cheers,
Shane

[adogg]

diesel turbo cruiser engines since 98 have had 15000 k service intervals so its not a problem,those fokkas hold 11.5litres of oil!! if you change your 3b oil at 5000 ks and filter and oil at every 10000 it will outlast you!! ive got a 96 cruiser with 310000 on the clock with no signs of giving up yet!! i`ll admit 3b`s are a bit down in power but are a very reliable engine if looked after!

[tweake]

also some simply things like reseting the ECU fuel presure settings after changing fuel filter. i see that one stuffing up a few home mechanics.

never heard that one,its more so keeping the fuel clean and changing filters reguarly,ressetting the fuel light is written on the sunvisor for cockys and home mechanic`s

its something to do with the fuel pressure curve of the fuel pump.the fuel system is very sensitive to fuel pressure. the ECU learns what the fuel pressure is doing and adjust fuel accordingly.
from what i understand is if you change fuel filter the reduction in restriction must cause an increase in fuel pressure, so it tends to over fuel the motor. hence a few common rail deisels running around pouring out black smoke.
the reset wipes the learned data so the ecu relearns the fuel pressure again.

a few of the D40 navara guys have been caught out with that.

[rokhound]

I was floating the idea, because I know the 3B will fail one day, and I will wanna replace it with another oil burner with more power.

Dude, pretty much any other oiler is going to have more power than a 3b
But a good 13bt is still a pretty good donk, or if you have a 70 series, the 4.2 non turbo (numbers escape me at the mo, but think it is the 1hz) Mind you at 200 000ks, the ole 3b is probably not even 1/2 way there. (I have a 2h in a 60 series that has 1/2 a million ks on it, and is only now ready for some work )

[adogg]

dunno about nissans(prolly use the same system!)but the new toyotas D4d engine /1kd is very prone to bad fuel(this engine ha been in europe since 99` in prados)change the fuel filter reguarly(30k)seen/fixed heaps of problems with dirty fuel/petrol in the tank,very expensive but easy to avoid!!not like old hiluxs which were more tolerant(1kz/2l/3l/5l) they just stopped and restarted,the fuel pump in the 1kd`s has a pressure control valve which will burn out if water or petrol runs through it,ending in 5-6k bill for a new pump,the fuel filter light on new/05>hilux comes on too late,so change it early,its cheap insurance!!!!

[85BJ73]

I get the impression these motors go for ever, barring a split hose and cooking it Which I don't plan to do (I change hoses every 2 years) I was told, probably in jest, Toyota regretted making this motor, as they gave no trouble, hence they made no money out of them!!
Incidentally, I do an oil filter every 5000k's, just like the oil, after all, a filter is cheaper than a rebuild, and why put clean oil through a dirty filter? Plus changing filters only takes a few minutes.
That is kinda why I floated this post too, if the 3B shat itself, the cost of a rebuild would come close to a transplant.....
I have been told the old 6 cyl (1HZ) is a heavy motor, but I guess all of them will probobly be heavier than my 3B?
Cheers,
Shane

[KiwiBacon]

I get the impression these motors go for ever, barring a split hose and cooking it Which I don't plan to do (I change hoses every 2 years) I was told, probably in jest, Toyota regretted making this motor, as they gave no trouble, hence they made no money out of them!!
Incidentally, I do an oil filter every 5000k's, just like the oil, after all, a filter is cheaper than a rebuild, and why put clean oil through a dirty filter? Plus changing filters only takes a few minutes.
That is kinda why I floated this post too, if the 3B shat itself, the cost of a rebuild would come close to a transplant.....
I have been told the old 6 cyl (1HZ) is a heavy motor, but I guess all of them will probobly be heavier than my 3B?
Cheers,
Shane

Are you talking about the 3B?
I have pictures somewhere of me in my rangie towing a dead dyna with a 3B through Arthurs Pass. It was making a loud banging noise in time with engine speed, I suspect cracked head and dropped precombustion cup.
They're far from bullet-proof. You need a direct injection engine, they use less fuel and have a much stronger head on them. The 13BT would be a big step up.

[muddy]

Didn't they have to widen the front of the new Cruisers to fit the V8? I doubt you'd have enough room in the engine bay of a 70 series...

[85BJ73]

Yeah, I see the new cruiser is wider in the front, but I don't know if it was for styling, or due to the engine being wider, if I get to go that way, then I guess I will find out.

[Sadam_Husain]

Didn't they have to widen the front of the new Cruisers to fit the V8? I doubt you'd have enough room in the engine bay of a 70 series...

I dunno how wide the toyota V8s are but my chev looks pretty tiny in my 70 series engine bay, theres a ton of room to stick engines in there, dunno about the prados though, I think there engine bays are a lot smaller but they still manage to get the lexus V8s into them?

[85BJ73]

I hear them Lexus are damn heavy too, 'bout the same as a 454 chev
Not too sure what we will go for, but like I said, I wanna stick with an oil burner, and preferably a Toyota. I like the idea of a 13BT, but what are they like down low? Do they need to be on the turbo to perform, or are they like my 3B, and grunt from idle?
It is a long way in the distance, hopefully, before we need to be serious about the swap, I am really just trying to gather info, as you never know what is around the corner

[KiwiBacon]

I dunno how wide the toyota V8s are but my chev looks pretty tiny in my 70 series engine bay, theres a ton of room to stick engines in there, dunno about the prados though, I think there engine bays are a lot smaller but they still manage to get the lexus V8s into them?

Chevs are pushrod and short stroke. The toyota engines are OHC and being diesel are longer stroke than your average petrol.
Toyota wouldn't have widened the front of the 70 series if they didn't have to.

[MNC]

I hear them Lexus are damn heavy too, 'bout the same as a 454 chev ...

Don't believe everything you hear, Have chosen the Lexus for my project specifically due to the fact they are lighter than the Chevy's (otherwise would have def chose a Chevy with a big rumble and torque to burn ):

Chevy small block V8 261kgs
Chevy 454 306 kgs
Lexus 4.0 V8 210 kgs

The original 70 series chassis' are quite wide in the front (wider than a 40 series anyway) so shouldn't have any problem dropping a nice big V8 in there .

[85BJ73]

Toyota wouldn't have widened the front of the 70 series if they didn't have to.

Not too sure about that, Toyota might have decided the 'cruiser neede an update, they may have done it for styling reasons.....

[TJ]

Toyota might have decided the 'cruiser neede an update, they may have done it for styling reasons.....

Toyota = Styling, hahahahaha - you are a funny man or you write ads for Tui...

[KiwiBacon]

Toyota wouldn't have widened the front of the 70 series if they didn't have to.

Not too sure about that, Toyota might have decided the 'cruiser neede an update, they may have done it for styling reasons.....

Styling on a 70 series??
The front axle track is now about 3 inches wider than the rear. That wasn't a styling update.

[85BJ73]

Hey, I object, what is wrong with the shape of a chiseled brick? You Jeep guys think you are soooooo slick, with all your factory options, tick this box, tick that box, your toughest choice is which box to tick, where as us Toyota guys get.....hey, I'm not really helping my cause here

[85BJ73]

KiwiBacon:
The front axle track is now about 3 inches wider than the rear. That wasn't a styling update.

I was referring to the new bonnet, guards, grille and other small panel changes made......

[timotheus]

The chassis rails were widened to fit the V8 along with everything that that affected, track, arches, bla bla.

3 inches I think.