good quality tow hooks

[coxsy]

think i have 4 bushranger one's on the safari ,still up to the job, used a front one and a back one this weekend

[shiney]

Sorry Bulletproof but I am not Lyndsay,
All clubs as you know (because you used to be a member of Nelson)have minimum requirements for hooks/bolts and other safety requirements. To advise a prospective member to fit a factory hook (because you believe some to be stronger) and expect this member to get a club tick....what would be the chances. Yes some hooks are of better quality than others but clubs do require rated hooks...even visitors from other clubs need to respect the rules of that club. These rated hooks if fitted correctly are more than adequate for club recoveries. I would rather have one straighten than become a missile. There is a wealth of knowledge within every club as to the prefered item a new member wishes to purchase. Still your choice to use what ever hook you think is best on your private/non club trips but remember to respect club rules.

[Sadam_Husain]

As has already been said in the thread if your subjecting a hook to its maximun load where its reaching its failing point you should be looking at different extraction or recovery methods

[Bulletproof]

Sorry Bulletproof but I am not Lyndsay,
All clubs as you know (because you used to be a member of Nelson)have minimum requirements for hooks/bolts and other safety requirements. To advise a prospective member to fit a factory hook (because you believe some to be stronger) and expect this member to get a club tick....what would be the chances. Yes some hooks are of better quality than others but clubs do require rated hooks...even visitors from other clubs need to respect the rules of that club. These rated hooks if fitted correctly are more than adequate for club recoveries. I would rather have one straighten than become a missile. There is a wealth of knowledge within every club as to the prefered item a new member wishes to purchase. Still your choice to use what ever hook you think is best on your private/non club trips but remember to respect club rules.

Sorry if I have got you mixed up with someone else.

I am not saying you shouldn't put rated hooks on.

All I am saying is you need to be careful ,and I think a factory fitted toyota hook shouldn't be replaced with an after market one just beause it is not rated.
Because it may be being replaced with something inferior as I have straightened 2 of these hooks where I have had no trouble with the genuine toyota ones I have fitted all round.

Richard

[fred flintstone]

I wanna know why, ALL THE CLUBS cant settle on one rule for the hooks,
as a newbie here, I read different threads and there seems to be different rules for different places,
and to be honest, thats bullshit...
after all, I thought we're spose to be heading in the same direction,
same thing for cages and seatbelts...

well....

[KiwiBacon]

I wanna know why, ALL THE CLUBS cant settle on one rule for the hooks,
as a newbie here, I read different threads and there seems to be different rules for different places,
and to be honest, thats bullshit...
after all, I thought we're spose to be heading in the same direction,
same thing for cages and seatbelts...

well....

Read and understand the debate, you'll understand then why each club has different rules. It's because people don't agree and for very good reasons.

[Bulletproof]

I wanna know why, ALL THE CLUBS cant settle on one rule for the hooks,
as a newbie here, I read different threads and there seems to be different rules for different places,
and to be honest, thats bullshit...
after all, I thought we're spose to be heading in the same direction,
same thing for cages and seatbelts...

well....

I dont want anyone to take offense at what I am saying and I am only speaking in general terms and not picking on individuals who may have a wealth of experience.

Today clubs have trouble getting people to stand for the committees so when they do get ones willing to take the role on they are to be prized and valued because of the sacrifices they make for fellow members.

Many committee members only do easy trips (and there is nothing wrong with that) and they are not consulting engineers so when a decision is discussed about tow hooks and the bolts to mount the hooks. They base their decision on what FEELS RIGHT rather than Scientific fact.

I was President of a committee that made club members replace the factory fitted Japanese grade 7 bolts used to mount tow hooks with 8.8 metric.
I disagreed with this decision because I believed they were down grading and put a letter on the clubs file relieving myself of the responsibility .
Since then the club has realised the 8.8 metric bolts are not strong enough because they were starting to shear and now say everyone must use 10.9 metric bolts.
Unless someone can prove to me otherwise, I still believe the factory fitted Japanese grade 7 bolts fitted on all the toyota hooks should never have been replaced with metric 8.8.

!0.9 metric are fine and stronger than a Japanese 7.

Hopefully you will understand why different clubs have different rules about hooks and mounting bolts.

Cheers Richard

[rangimotors]

i replace the bolts and would not use the factory ones, 10.9 bolts are still readily available and cheap.
I replace them because from what i understand (limited knowledge)
-high tensile bolts have a limited life, and can be usless if they have been over tightened or used incorrectly
-the factory ones might be 10 or even 20 years old,
-i have no idea of the history of the bolts from factory,
-i don't use the factory captive nuts/holes so am talking them out anyway.
-i find it peace of mind to use new nuts and bolts for recovery points and bar mounts

I also have the same theroy with the hooks, not to say the factory ones are not as strong or stronger but how do you ever no there history, i would rather use a 'rated' hook that may straighten at large load than use a hook that might go forever or might snap in half and turn into a leathal flying object

only my personal feelings, not stupid enough to call someone with more hard yacka 4wheelin experiance than many will ever do wrong.

may just be me but even if i buy a truck with any hook (rated or not) i will replace them, it is a very real risk for what ever hooks on a vechicle to have been damaged at some point and not be visable especially ones people have put a nice coat of yellow paint on covering all marks/cracks

[fred flintstone]

i replace the bolts and would not use the factory ones, 10.9 bolts are still readily available and cheap.
I replace them because from what i understand (limited knowledge)
-high tensile bolts have a limited life, and can be usless if they have been over tightened or used incorrectly
-the factory ones might be 10 or even 20 years old,
-i have no idea of the history of the bolts from factory,
-i don't use the factory captive nuts/holes so am talking them out anyway.
-i find it peace of mind to use new nuts and bolts for recovery points and bar mounts

I also have the same theroy with the hooks, not to say the factory ones are not as strong or stronger but how do you ever no there history, i would rather use a 'rated' hook that may straighten at large load than use a hook that might go forever or might snap in half and turn into a leathal flying object

only my personal feelings, not stupid enough to call someone with more hard yacka 4wheelin experiance than many will ever do wrong.

my question is, rangi has done all this, believing he has made his truck safer,
but some club "rules" say otherwise,
and even if a bloke got engineers to certify his work,
but it still clashes with "club rules", can you see my point?

may just be me but even if i buy a truck with any hook (rated or not) i will replace them, it is a very real risk for what ever hooks on a vechicle to have been damaged at some point and not be visable especially ones people have put a nice coat of yellow paint on covering all marks/cracks

[rangimotors]

just as of interest what do clubs say? i haven't come across one that would not be happy with my setup, i have certainlty come across ones that allow more of a factory set up eg more relaxed rules. but i haven't come across a club that will not allow rated recovery points..

Not trying to stir anything up just interested

[Bulletproof]

i replace the bolts and would not use the factory ones, 10.9 bolts are still readily available and cheap.
I replace them because from what i understand (limited knowledge)
-high tensile bolts have a limited life, and can be usless if they have been over tightened or used incorrectly
-the factory ones might be 10 or even 20 years old,
-i have no idea of the history of the bolts from factory,
-i don't use the factory captive nuts/holes so am talking them out anyway.
-i find it peace of mind to use new nuts and bolts for recovery points and bar mounts

I also have the same theroy with the hooks, not to say the factory ones are not as strong or stronger but how do you ever no there history, i would rather use a 'rated' hook that may straighten at large load than use a hook that might go forever or might snap in half and turn into a leathal flying object

only my personal feelings, not stupid enough to call someone with more hard yacka 4wheelin experiance than many will ever do wrong.

may just be me but even if i buy a truck with any hook (rated or not) i will replace them, it is a very real risk for what ever hooks on a vechicle to have been damaged at some point and not be visable especially ones people have put a nice coat of yellow paint on covering all marks/cracks

I agree that replacing bolts that have been used is a good idea and 10.9 metric are fine.

And what I said before was to show how committees work and why there are different rules.

Cheers Richard

[Bulletproof]

Another thing to consider when replacing bolts is that some hooks have half inch imperial holes.

If you put a 10.9 12 mm bolt in you will have .5mm play which greatly increases the shear factor.

I use half inch imperial high tensile bolts in mine because they measure 12.5mm and fill the hole reducing the shear factor.

Cheers Richard

[shiney]

I think some of us are getting a bit side tracked with this debate now. What Fred Flintstone needs to know that if he is considering joining a club that he will have to abide by thats clubs ruling on hooks and bolts etc. Yes there should be a standard introduced. Whether someone thinks one bolt/hook is stronger than another is irrelevant. Hooks and bolts are also subjected to alot of unecessary stress due to inexperienced 4wheelers supervising recoveries. Bulletproof is correct in his comment regarding hole sizes. All these need to be considered and the owners of these vehilces should be aware of the sort of recoveries their vehilces have been involved in and perform regular checks. Bolts should be replaced regulary if the vehilce has been subjected to alot of extreme recovery situations and should be replaced if uncertain of there age. These items are cheaper to replace than windsreens/panels or a life. Alot of knowledge/experience is freely available at local clubs if someone is uncertain about what to use and usually they have a local engineer they use if he/she requires unbaised comments.

[Bushrash]

I think some of us are getting a bit side tracked with this debate now. What Fred Flintstone needs to know that if he is considering joining a club that he will have to abide by thats clubs ruling on hooks and bolts etc. Yes there should be a standard introduced. Whether someone thinks one bolt/hook is stronger than another is irrelevant. Hooks and bolts are also subjected to alot of unecessary stress due to inexperienced 4wheelers supervising recoveries. Bulletproof is correct in his comment regarding hole sizes. All these need to be considered and the owners of these vehilces should be aware of the sort of recoveries their vehilces have been involved in and perform regular checks. Bolts should be replaced regulary if the vehilce has been subjected to alot of extreme recovery situations and should be replaced if uncertain of there age. These items are cheaper to replace than windsreens/panels or a life. Alot of knowledge/experience is freely available at local clubs if someone is uncertain about what to use and usually they have a local engineer they use if he/she requires unbaised comments.

Totally agree think i will go with snatchmaster and mounted properly with the best bolts i can find is going to give everything its best chance possible and keep everyone happy

[fred flintstone]

I think some of us are getting a bit side tracked with this debate now. What Fred Flintstone needs to know that if he is considering joining a club that he will have to abide by thats clubs ruling on hooks and bolts etc. Yes there should be a standard introduced. Whether someone thinks one bolt/hook is stronger than another is irrelevant. Hooks and bolts are also subjected to alot of unecessary stress due to inexperienced 4wheelers supervising recoveries. Bulletproof is correct in his comment regarding hole sizes. All these need to be considered and the owners of these vehilces should be aware of the sort of recoveries their vehilces have been involved in and perform regular checks. Bolts should be replaced regulary if the vehilce has been subjected to alot of extreme recovery situations and should be replaced if uncertain of there age. These items are cheaper to replace than windsreens/panels or a life. Alot of knowledge/experience is freely available at local clubs if someone is uncertain about what to use and usually they have a local engineer they use if he/she requires unbaised comments.

To me this is the whole issue, that is different clubs have different rules depending on SOMEONES OPINION, not facts...
no one would have a problem conforming, to a certified ruling,
one that has a engineers report to say wat is right or wrong,
but for different clubs and areas to say this is our rule,
just for the sake of it, is just not right, whose to say they are right, and it IS relevant..

I personally dont have a issue putting the right gear on, we all wanna be safe,
but if I was to go to another area, will it still be up to standard...
ya just gotta look back in this thread to see the different ideas and opinions,
and while some of you, are doing the hard draft, others just like to play...
I dunno whether I'l be able to, going by this issue alone...
there must be a engineer or two on here, wat do they say

[Sadam_Husain]

Fred, there are no legal regulations covering recovery points so it always come down to individual or club or whatever to apply their own discression.

there is a general concensus of 10,000lb rated hooks with 8.8 bolts thats generally accepted where ever you go?

[bigbear]

So who sells snatch master hooks?

[Sadam_Husain]

So who sells snatch master hooks?

Your local Cookes outlet or 4wdbits.co.nz

[KiwiBacon]

there must be a engineer or two on here, wat do they say

[shiney]

[
To me this is the whole issue, that is different clubs have different rules depending on SOMEONES OPINION, not facts...
no one would have a problem conforming, to a certified ruling,
one that has a engineers report to say wat is right or wrong,
but for different clubs and areas to say this is our rule,
just for the sake of it, is just not right, whose to say they are right, and it IS relevant..

I personally dont have a issue putting the right gear on, we all wanna be safe,
but if I was to go to another area, will it still be up to standard...
ya just gotta look back in this thread to see the different ideas and opinions,
and while some of you, are doing the hard draft, others just like to play...
I dunno whether I'l be able to, going by this issue alone...
there must be a engineer or two on here, wat do they say[/quote]

To play with clubs Nationwide Fred you would be pretty safe with 10000lb hooks and 10.9 bolts. I would prefer to be over rated than under rated.

[rangimotors]

how many times have you been in an engineers work shop and heard them agree on anything, doesn't matter if they are qualified people still have different ideas and opinions. I have to agree that its best to overkill and be over rated.

[KiwiBacon]

how many times have you been in an engineers work shop and heard them agree on anything, doesn't matter if they are qualified people still have different ideas and opinions. I have to agree that its best to overkill and be over rated.

The guys in an engineers workshop are seldom engineers. Mostly tradesmen.

[HedgeBoar]

If anyone is interested, I can do some calcs. on this matter to clear things up a bit. I am not a registered consultant, so they couldn't be used for anything legal wise, but I do have both a dip. mech.eng. and BE(hons)Mech - so It'll give people an idea as to what is safe and what isn't.

I imagine that the majority of tow hook failures are caused by the use of a strop/rope with too little stretch.... with a stiff rope, any tow hook will fail if you try snatching..... Surprising how many people you see snatching people out with lifting strops/winch extensions!

[KiwiBacon]

I imagine that the majority of tow hook failures are caused by the use of a strop/rope with too little stretch.... with a stiff rope, any tow hook will fail if you try snatching..... Surprising how many people you see snatching people out with lifting strops/winch extensions!

Very true. Lets give people the extreme case to make the analogy more clear.
Try snatching with a chain.

Of course the rope/chain still has to be stronger than the hook to cause a hook failure (unless you're breaking lots of ropes).

[aroma]

seen someone pulling/snatching small trees out using a rated chain (i think) he needed a new windscreen,rear vison,mirror rear window and a clean pair of undies and the glass removed from his face when it let go
I'm guessing he didn't try it again
wasn't pretty from where I was

[Mud Hog]

Hi I have just fitted some hooks to the front bar Its an Aussie speed one its alloy. I have put two steel 10mm plates on the under side of the bar the plates are 30mm X 60mm. Any ideas if this will hold or rip through the alloy? Have'nt tested it but will do so gradually and cautiously.

[KiwiBacon]

Hi I have just fitted some hooks to the front bar Its an Aussie speed one its alloy. I have put two steel 10mm plates on the under side of the bar the plates are 30mm X 60mm. Any ideas if this will hold or rip through the alloy? Have'nt tested it but will do so gradually and cautiously.

A photo would help.

[rangimotors]

Hi I have just fitted some hooks to the front bar Its an Aussie speed one its alloy. I have put two steel 10mm plates on the under side of the bar the plates are 30mm X 60mm. Any ideas if this will hold or rip through the alloy? Have'nt tested it but will do so gradually and cautiously.

x 2 on a photo, how is the bar mounted to the chasis, there are plenty of strong bars with well mounted hooks about but its no good if its not also well mounted to the chasis or you'll rip the whole lots off

[turoa]

to be honest I wouldnt mount it to an alloy bar, but also what are the mounts on the bar like? not much good having beefy tow hooks mounted to a bar held on with a couple of 8mm bolts

[4WDbits]

So who sells snatch master hooks?

Your local Cookes outlet or 4wdbits.co.nz

I think you will find that Cookes are selling Black Rat recovery hooks now, unless there is some old stock about.