Suzuki Xtreme 4WD Cup 2008

[BlackCruiser]

so where the hell are the official results? maybe this new way of scoring is no good?

Sounds like normal club scoring, lots of club rallies I have been to have been to have been a cock up, should be so simple

[skid]

bring back the old days where they wrote it all on a big board where everyone could see it and then there were no complaints etc etc etc

[Flash2004]

Apologies to Mr. Dahlberg, I couldn't be sure if i remembered his name right and obviously didn't but have edited now.

The subject of the starting order did come up briefly at prizegiving, I think next time they'll look at mixing it up a bit. Even so, Mike Dodunski (2nd) started off last of his group (that means starting 15th at one hazard and 30th at the next for the whole day) and was only beaten by a only 10 points. He lost 8 of those on the speed section compared to those who were able to do that hazard earlier in the lineup where there were only about two seconds between the times of the first five or six runners who could find some fresh ground to power out of the turns - for instance. Its all swings and roundabouts, as usual.

[Flash2004]

Did anyone see the show on Sky TV last night? Its on sky every second night again this week too. Take a look at the schedule and a quick promo in this link http://www.suzukixtreme.tv/node/102 I'd like to hear any comments, cheers.

[SMOKEY]

Hi Flash, I did watch last night, and thought It a very good event and good production. Just watched the Promo vid; also well done. Can only be good for the sport in general. It is certainly pushing the limits of drivers , vehicles, and Bank Managers. Hope we see different competitors next event, and more of the vehicles completing the hazzard and less DNF's.

YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYBODY ALL THE TIME,

FITZY.

[tpft]

anyone got any pics of the twins in the "freak" no 2

[Sadam_Husain]

anyone got any pics of the twins in the "freak" no 2

There was one with a bunch of pics posted on another thread

[Flash2004]

It does look like it was real hard with a lot of carnage in the show and that's their job to make it look like that so they did well I thought.

The reality was quite different. I think even Dan was amazed that so many conquered his seemingly impossible hazards. They all turned out to be driveable if your truck, skills and nuts were up to it (not necessarily in that order) and the rolls usually only came from the red mist of enthusiasm, momentary brain fade or a pound too little air pressure on the downhill side. As far as I know everyone was able to drive onto the trailer for the trip home and that's always a good sign of a hard day.

Phil Bayliss showed conclusively that it wasn't just bling and megabucks that was required to perform well on it and the event itself showed the hazards can be made even more challenging and entertaining than we're used to without drama. cheers.

[SMOKEY]

On the safety side of things, with the popularity of open sided vehicles how long before we see a serious injury ? I believe It is time for all competitors to wear Arm Restraints and vehicles to be fitted with side Safety Mesh's, I would hate to see limbs getting thrown about and be on the outside of the safety frame in the case of a roll over.

OSH ; INSPECTOR ,

FITZY.

[Pedro]

On the safety side of things, with the popularity of open sided vehicles how long before we see a serious injury ? I believe It is time for all competitors to wear Arm Restraints and vehicles to be fitted with side Safety Mesh's, I would hate to see limbs getting thrown about and be on the outside of the safety frame in the case of a roll over.

OSH ; INSPECTOR ,

FITZY.

well hell if the open sided vehicles are too dangerous then we had better get rid of the hill climbs cause you could roll off, sidlings out, cause a roll is a definite possibility or hell lets stay home wrapped in cotton wool !!!!!!

this sport is for adventure, there is such a thing a self responsibility , there event of a high speed roll is remote, we don;t get over about 30 kph, yes a roll from the top of a hill is possible, but if you are driving to YOUR limits and not the vehicle limits then if it does go wrong you are prepared for the results, if the hazard is to "dangerous in ones view" don't do it, there is no shot gun around i have seen.

to many people arrive in the sport having seen it on TV, have the buxs to buy/build a capable truck but do not know how to put in 4wd let alone what to do when it turns to crap.

Pedro

[Flash2004]

to many people arrive in the sport having seen it on TV, have the buxs to buy/build a capable truck but do not know how to put in 4wd let alone what to do when it turns to crap.

Who are you referring to exactly? I think your opinion on the safety aspects has some merit, but there's no need to insult anyone. I've seen some guys turn up in new trucks who have taken a while to get used to them but there were no bunnies at this event. Maybe within the nationals is where you mean?

[tpft]

to many people arrive in the sport having seen it on TV, have the buxs to buy/build a capable truck but do not know how to put in 4wd let alone what to do when it turns to crap.

Pedro

wots 4wd?

[Pedro]

to many people arrive in the sport having seen it on TV, have the buxs to buy/build a capable truck but do not know how to put in 4wd let alone what to do when it turns to crap.

Who are you referring to exactly? I think your opinion on the safety aspects has some merit, but there's no need to insult anyone. I've seen some guys turn up in new trucks who have taken a while to get used to them but there were no bunnies at this event. Maybe within the nationals is where you mean?

Flash, i was not insulting anyone and it happens thru all aspects of 4wding, there were drivers there who had new trucks and generally drove to their limits and not the vehicles, there were a couple there that made basic cock ups where if they are the "top 30" should not of made them or at least not got into that situation in the first place.

it winds me up about having all this bloody safety gear where it is not warranted, i would think rugby would put a hell of a lot more people into wheel chairs than 4wd ever has or probably ever will.

cheers

[Flash2004]

OK I did notice one truck there which looked quite radical and expensive which was not driven well most of the day but I assumed he wasn't used to it yet? I think those "basic cockups" though were about the only differences between the top drivers on the day. Everyone's allowed a mistake no matter how good they are - but you're not going to win if you make it.

One thing I did notice which was even more important was - only my opinion - a failure to consistently ping for "stops". I might be being picky but i saw a stop from PW & CR during the TV coverage yet they still got the zero?

When the difference between 1st and second is only 10 points a consistency in marshall's calls is quite important - especially when the guy in second place was pinged 50 points for a similar looking stop only because the clerk of the course was watching and insisted.

As for the open sides, I reckon if the Mason bros. had rolled one more time neither of them would have been in any shape to keep their arms and legs inside the rollcage. They rolled hard and were in fairyland when they landed back on their wheels in the creek. The design of most newer trucks means leg room is at a premium and neither driver nor passenger should have to consciously hold themselves inside the vehicle in any kind of upset - much better to be safe inside and able to focus - like many do - on pulling out of the rll at the first opportunity.

I think open sides are fine if you're conscious and not disoriented. My vote is for webbing on all trucks but not arm restraints. Where's the harm?

[skid]

consistency in marshall's calls is quite important

don't even go there

thats a touchy subject lately




as for the mesh thingy, thats a crock of shit.

the sport has been going for longer than I number in years and has been and will constantly evolve with the times.

mesh can be just as dangerous as not having it.

theres been rolls into water/mud where the competitors needed to exit in a hurry and they would not be able to do it with mesh.

I myself have rolled in water and basically needed to swim out very quickly and also have been in a roll where the final resting place has ATF fluids etc dripping onto you, and they are not very nice tasting and burn when hot.

theres no need for mesh

if you need an example closer to home Gordon, then go talk to Warren Day about his roll into water a number of years ago when the truck dissappeared below the water and ask him if he would be here today if there were mesh in his truck.

my 2c, but I say NO to mesh

[cool__bananas]

it was a good as show, but i only got shown when myt motor broked

[Furgus]

as for the mesh thingy, thats a crock of shit.

the sport has been going for longer than I number in years and has been and will constantly evolve with the times.

mesh can be just as dangerous as not having it.

theres been rolls into water/mud where the competitors needed to exit in a hurry and they would not be able to do it with mesh.

I myself have rolled in water and basically needed to swim out very quickly and also have been in a roll where the final resting place has ATF fluids etc dripping onto you, and they are not very nice tasting and burn when hot.

theres no need for mesh

if you need an example closer to home Gordon, then go talk to Warren Day about his roll into water a number of years ago when the truck dissappeared below the water and ask him if he would be here today if there were mesh in his truck.

my 2c, but I say NO to mesh

I hate it when this happens.......but I agree with Skid 100%

[skid]

it was a good as show, but i only got shown when myt motor broked

bruummmm cough cough fart pop bruummmm pop fart cough

look out here comes Mitch

[SMOKEY]

I know I have a short fuse and some of the replies to my safety post have just lit it, .I have had 40 odd years involvement with motor sport and my immediate short fused answer to some of the replies is harden up you Soft Cocks, in the early days we didn't need Helmets, Roll cages or any other safety devices . Things have changed since then and these changes have saved many a life and serious injury. You mark my words, If history is anything to go by the safety measures I have talked about will come about, and will probably be brought about by some of you critics.

FITZY.

[skid]

If history is anything to go by the safety measures I have talked about will come about, and will probably be brought about by some of you critics.

FITZY.

are you stating that we are irresponsible and will one day cause or be the cause of an accident that will introduce harsher safety measures.

I resent being called irresposible in my pastime/sport


I have in the past been an official that took control of the running of Trials and therefore having the resposibility of close to 100 competitors in my hands.

they voted me in and trusted me to keep them safe in thier sport, so to hear you state that I would be irresposible just fires me up

[SMOKEY]

Skid, I have reread my post and I can't find anywhere in it that I have called you or anybody else irresponsible, so I don't know where that came from. It has been stated that the sport has been going for longer than some of the current members and has evolved over time. I'am saying that the sport will continue along with newer and better safety measures for all involved.

FITZY.

[Dr_PC]

I have had 40 odd years involvement with motor sport and my immediate short fused answer to some of the replies is harden up you Soft Cocks,FITZY.

First please refrain from calling me a SOFT COCK. I had 20 years in speedway before I started 4 wheeling. Raced TZ Yamaha's (both 750 and 250) midget's, super saloon's and other dirt track grades, always had to wear a helmet racing in single seaters always wore arm restraints. Hop in my buggy and drive it competitively with arm restraints not a hope in hell. I have gears to change fiddle brakes to operate and a wheel to steer with using only one hand as the other is using fiddle brakes. Window nets in speedway yes. This sport at a national level drivers want and need to be able to see pegs cant do that with mesh.

[Pedro]

I think open sides are fine if you're conscious and not disoriented. My vote is for webbing on all trucks but not arm restraints. Where's the harm?

2 or 3 years ago i had a "incident" which end result was up side down in a pond, which was chest deep when i got out, if there was a mesh on the doors it is probable i would not be here and my navigator sure as hell would not be, if you want mesh or webbing in the windows of vehicles, knock yourself out , do it in your own vehicle and leave us alone, if we see benefits in a safety improvement then we could opt to fit it, but at this stage there are NO rules saying you cannot run it, and would be good to keep it that way.

pedro

[skid]

You mark my words, If history is anything to go by the safety measures I have talked about will come about, and will probably be brought about by some of you critics.

FITZY.

Yeah , I read into that bit a little deep and got carried away, but as you can see those of us posting are involved in the sport heavily and if you haven't actually done the sport then its probably best if you step away from this topic and leave well enough alone

skids 2c worth

cheers

[Furgus]

Like I said earlier I agree with Skid about the no mesh thing ........ BUT I do think that the scrutineers (of which I believe skid once was) need to make sure that the competitors bodies are safely inside the roll cage. I know that this has been an issue in the past and from the look of some of the new trucks this is becoming more of a problem. There are rules in place to sort this the nationals but i wonder sometimes how well they are inforced.........

Furgus

[skid]

Like I said earlier I agree with Skid about the no mesh thing ........ BUT I do think that the scrutineers (of which I believe skid once was) need to make sure that the competitors bodies are safely inside the roll cage. I know that this has been an issue in the past and from the look of some of the new trucks this is becoming more of a problem. There are rules in place to sort this the nationals but i wonder sometimes how well they are inforced.........

Furgus

was a steward, not a scrutineer

you're right though

rule book is a bit of a farce when it seems that its easy to slide illegal things through, especially if you have a C/D Class truck.

last conference had a remit on a 100mm gap around body, got withdrawn before it was voted on

too much focus on class eligability than safety

[tpft]

i think somebody be nuts to build something, without taking into fact the knowlodge that it WILL end up upside down at some stage.
i mean its not like other motorsports, in rallying, circut racing etc a crash is bad but not every race..............
trials buggys by nature are going to spend time defying gravity and rolling.

why would u build something when your body is hangin out?..........................

[Flash2004]

My comment about side nets was more to do with where the sport goes in the future, not where it is today. I see the hill climbs getting higher already and so the potential for multiple rolls gets equally higher. As we can all see looking at certain tall persons in their trucks even today, there is no space between cages and helmets. If you crouch at scrutineering you can get away with it and new trucks are being built lower and lower. If your head gets a hammering as you roll two, three, four times down a hill then your arms and legs are going to be flapping wherever gravity takes them.

I don't know what you guys had in mind, but I had some angle shaped web nets made up that held your arms and shoulders within the cage quite well, had snap releases at three corners which could be undone in an instant and there was still plenty of opening forward to crawl out over the top of it if you'd wanted.

I know what you mean about rolling into water, there's nothing like hanging upside down trying to lift your head downwards towards your chest away from the water and mud, all accompanied by the sweet smell of leaking petrol. If ever there was a scenario for panic that would be it while you wait for someone to help you out and wonder if there's even a gap left big enough to get through. You forget which side your belt buckle is, finally find it and drop yourself in a heap in the water. And this was in a SWB Landrover at club champs and no rollcage. I'd rather be panicking with intact arms and legs myself.

Sometimes people are inclined to argue against change just because its change. Some argue for the sake of argument. We had people leave our club because we enforced the wearing of seatbelts on club runs and they didn't think that would make them or their passengers safer despite the mountain of proof otherwise.

[SMOKEY]

Skid , this was never meant to be a slinging match, and I have never stepped away from anything in my life, I made a statement on what I considered to be a safety issue, and by the replies I got it fired me up. As for your assumption I have had no experience in the sport and leave well alone, If this is the criteria for posting on ORE there wouldn't be many topics.
Dr_PC, the word SOFT COCK, was also used as I said after my fuse was lit, and I was getting at the person who replied to my safety issues, and I used the term to try and defend my reasons as to how safety has evolved over the years where once upon a time we didn't use roll cages or helmets but now you wouldn't think of not using them. I was once involved in a motor sport that I criticized the introduction of safety measures, to latter on be one that pushed for stricter controls at all levels.
I still say after watching the trials on TV there is a real possibility for Limbs to be injured, and it is only human nature for people to put there hand out to safe themselves when they fall over, even if the safety side mesh was high enough to stop legs from getting thrown out and there was an arm restraint on the outside arm I believe it would make a difference.

FITZY.

[Pedro]

My comment about side nets was more to do with where the sport goes in the future, not where it is today. I see the hill climbs getting higher already and so the potential for multiple rolls gets equally higher. As we can all see looking at certain tall persons in their trucks even today, there is no space between cages and helmets. If you crouch at scrutineering you can get away with it and new trucks are being built lower and lower. If your head gets a hammering as you roll two, three, four times down a hill then your arms and legs are going to be flapping wherever gravity takes them.




I know what you mean about rolling into water, there's nothing like hanging upside down trying to lift your head downwards towards your chest away from the water and mud, all accompanied by the sweet smell of leaking petrol. If ever there was a scenario for panic that would be it while you wait for someone to help you out and wonder if there's even a gap left big enough to get through. You forget which side your belt buckle is, finally find it and drop yourself in a heap in the water. And this was in a SWB Landrover at club champs and no rollcage. I'd rather be panicking with intact arms and legs myself.

Sometimes people are inclined to argue against change just because its change. Some argue for the sake of argument. We had people leave our club because we enforced the wearing of seatbelts on club runs and they didn't think that would make them or their passengers safer despite the mountain of proof otherwise.

seat belts yup
helmuts yup
i suggest people use full harness even on club trips but do not ever suggest compulsory rules
roll cages you fit inside with a 100mm clearance yup

I altered my cage cause a club champs my head contacted the ground or roof when i had a off, i lifted the cage approx 80mm and have never had a problem since, there are trucks trialing and even in the extreme series that should not be allowed to enter due to cage sizing around the driver, as you say they crouch at scrut, stewards should be able to rock up and kick em out of the event if it is obvious the head and shoulder are naturally sitting outside the cage or flush with the outside of it,

as i said before there is noting preventing people from running extra safety gear.