National Trials rules need sorting out .

[Rotazuk]

The below is a quote from another post that I did not want to corrupt the thread and I could not find a better topic to put it in either .

with the lift It will be sorted
Heath

Heath
In an email I got a couple of months ago from the Chief Scruntineer I was told no lifts in a b e or f Classes
Dont want to see you up in C Class because of something like that

Do not take this as a personal attack Dan as I am sure you understand but how can they say that when the rules for A & B class say

7.1 R ) "Production modified vehicles may fit shackle stops and overset springs may be used , provided they conform to the original design. "

If an overset spring does not create lift what is it ?
If that does not cover aftermarket replacement lifted springs I do not know what would . If you could only reset factory springs there would be no need for the statement "provided they conform to type design" as they already would .
The only reasonable way I can interpretate that rule is springs may be overset and aftermarket overset springs may be used as long as they bolt in , or fit in the factory mounts . How does everyone else read this ?

This is the same as the guard cutting issues a while ago , the end result was that you could cut the guards but not remove material , ok we got that . But as a spectator at a rally last year it was clear over half the trucks I looked at had removed material .

This is the biggest problem in this sport at the moment , these contradictory rules interpretaions . Something needs to be done , it is the most fustrating part of the whole exercise tring to get into this sport . Not saying I know how to fix the problem or know better but I should be able to read a rule book and set up a truck for the class . Dan getting the above message , which in my opinion , contradicts the rules is just , well , frustrating (other F words left out )

Cheers
Chris

Ps feel free to correct the spelling

[skid]

I could sit down for an hour or two and start reading the rule book and point out a zillion parts where it seems its all wrong.

Its been said for a number of years that it needs a tidy up, but nobody seems to have the time to attack it, so it only gets small tidy ups every year when someone puts in a remit to address the problem.

will take years to sort at this rate and by then someone else would have got a rule changed to suit them.


it happens all the time


someone puts in the same remit for 3-4 years and it always gets voted out and then bam the next year when nothing has changed, it gets voted in and then for the following season everyone bitches about the dumb rule that was voted in.


welcome to the sport dude

hope you enjoy the standard class

after a while you'll see why alot of folks just build a modified truck and move away from the bickering.

at least there are still shady characters like yourself and that lil piggy chap who come along to boost the numbers in standard classes where somebody has left.

another bout of my 2c for the night( lots tonight, I'll be even broker at this rate)

SKID


p.s. this is not intended to offend or pick on anyone

[Heath]

I agree Skid and Chris.

I being new to the sport (well competing anyway) find the rule book creates as many questions as it answers. There are lots of ambiguous sections and I can see why some people just go into C and D (to avoid the confussion).

So how do we go about affecting a change?

Do we rewrite the whole thing and submit it? Or should we create a forum here on each section and get submissions from everyone and then vote on the changes? With the successful changes then put in an ammended rule book and submitted to the rules committee?

Some stuff would be easy and wouldnt need changes. some stuff may need tweaking to get a final and definative rule but mostly it is just rewriting the big sections (or breaking them down into smaller bits) The body section for example could do with paring down into smaller blocks The wheel cavity bit could be made more definative.

Hell two people reading this would get different results and neither of them would be wrong but when they front for the first time and get told the missunderstood the rules and all their wiork and money has been for nothing they be really pissed. I know I would be / will be if after all the playing around I am wrong.

So back to the crux of the matter how do we change things for the better?

[Dr_PC]

Do not take this as a personal attack Dan
Cheers
Chris
Ps feel free to correct the spelling

I will you little... NAH I wont. The rule states that you can enlarge the wheel cavity for tyre clearance, which is the inner guard outer gurardfirewall etc, so I email the Chief Scrutineer saying that by my interpretation of that rule I could do a body lift as I would be enlarging the entire wheel cavity and that was when the email came back about no lifts.

From my reading it appears that the rules were written 20 odd years ago and then havce slowly been changed to suit various things however when this has happened the entire book has not been looked at and so there has been stupid wordings occurr. My favorite is that tyres MAY HAVE tubes fitted BUT a spare if carried MUST have TUBES fitted. I am going to put in 2 remits on that this year. One to say that tyres mustr have tubes fitted and one to say that the spare may have a tube fitted.

Enough rambling for now

[Heath]

Does a pneumatic beadlock count as a tube?

[tpft]

i don,t see promblem, u will only get protested if u are winning....................

[Heath]

i don,t see promblem, u will only get protested if u are winning....................

No worries then.

[Heath]

I thought the rules were only up for remits every three years and wasnt it just done last year?

[lilpigzuk]

i don,t see promblem, u will only get protested if u are winning....................

you could get stung at scrutineering, ie got a 9 hour drive too welly with the new truck, be bit sucky if the truck gets failed on something I cant fix by the following morning.

[skid]

BEFORE ANYONE STARTS WORRYING ABOUT HOW TO RECTIFY THE RULE BOOK (bloody caps)

do a season first and come along to the competitors conference at the finals to see how the remit thingy works and how the bitchin goes down and how the sheep vote etc etc etc

[tpft]

i don,t see promblem, u will only get protested if u are winning....................

you could get stung at scrutineering, ie got a 9 hour drive too welly with the new truck, be bit sucky if the truck gets failed on something I cant fix by the following morning.

true, but i thought u were only talking a "cut" here or a "tuck" there.
from what i,ve seen, its mainly when the A (b,e,f) class rig gets further in a knarly hazzard then everyone else, then the um
"backstabbing starts"
scrutineering is safety based, isn,t it?
perhaps Dan could shed some light on whether anyone has been pinged on suspension as far as rules go?
i,m curoius as well

true way forward would be to split the classes, separate a,b,e,f events, when they finally do that and stop trying to have std based trucks driving hazzards built for the best c and d trucks.............
thats off post, i shut up now

[cool__bananas]

well one guy had his radiator halfway down the engine bay because his motor was pretty much behind the firewall and noone cared the first couple of rounds then when he got a good placing he was a threat so thats when the backstabbing started so yea, if your truck could be wrong then just dont drive it hard

[skid]

well one guy had his radiator halfway down the engine bay because his motor was pretty much behind the firewall and noone cared the first couple of rounds then when he got a good placing he was a threat so thats when the backstabbing started so yea, if your truck could be wrong then just dont drive it hard

the boy speaketh the truth

[Heath]

well one guy had his radiator halfway down the engine bay because his motor was pretty much behind the firewall and noone cared the first couple of rounds then when he got a good placing he was a threat so thats when the backstabbing started so yea, if your truck could be wrong then just dont drive it hard

the boy speaketh the truth

"From the mouths of babes" (thats not to say I think of you as being attractive or a baby, your skills probably outweigh mine)

[sig]

in the trials scene it can quite easily said that tall poppy syndrome exists .this is my personal opinion after competing,navigating, watching ,stewarding and being clerk of course more than once (quite a few times actually)

[Pedro]

in the trials scene it can quite easily said that tall poppy syndrome exists .this is my personal opinion after competing,navigating, watching ,stewarding and being clerk of course more than once (quite a few times actually)

problem is when they get upset they won't take thier bat and ball and bugger off....... and i hear ya on clerk of the course

[Dr_PC]

Dan could shed some light on whether anyone has been pinged on suspension as far as rules go?
i,m curoius as well

At least once for each of the last 3 seasons I have seen a competitior told to prove to the scrutineer that the modification that they have made to suspension is to the rules. Funny thing is at the next rally the vehicle has had those bits changed.

3 years ago was the funniest, Scrutineering at Thames 2 vehicles sitting one behind the other both A class and the 2nd one is 4 inches higher in the air. Typical driver "It must be standard as it was like that when I bought it... It must be standard as the supplier told me these were standard springs and shocks for it". Next rally it was back down to standard height