1KZ surf transformed to Coil SAS club truck

[hosehustler]

Very interested in what you are up to Tim.
Great to see the build up & your thoughts on here.

Have you thought of adding an X-link to the front end? Like Shane put up in a Nissan thread recently.

Seems to me you need to alter the front bush mount positions anyway and that creating an x-link would add massively to the front end artic. I know that the Prados with big springs / long shocks & therefore big Sus travel have WOF issues with the factory bushes wearing out quickly. The X-link would minimise this issue and gain softer & greater flex.

just a thought
John

Hi john, yes I was very interested in the X-link, at this stage they aren't available (off the shelf) for prado's, I'm cosidering custom making one, i will need to get centre pin engineered and main arm folded, but the rest could be done myself, but need to go chat to the certifier before I go down that route.

[Steve_t647]

Seems to me you need to alter the front bush mount positions anyway and that creating an x-link would add massively to the front end artic. I know that the Prados with big springs / long shocks & therefore big Sus travel have WOF issues with the factory bushes wearing out quickly. The X-link would minimise this issue and gain softer & greater flex.
John

[Hi john, yes I was very interested in the X-link, at this stage they aren't available (off the shelf) for prado's, but I'm cosidering making one

I like the idea behind it and I would love to see a back to back comparison (one with one without) the Aussie I know with one in his safari maveric or whatever (The Aussies love their Nissans) loves the x-link, the only thing he say's is

it is a little more rolly on the corners at speed adjustable shocks could cure some of that.

but they just have a big sandpit to play in and the lift he had done at the same time would not have helped. Rick was thinking of making something for his Safari axle and the cert man was not that worried about it. I would think it could put a bit of torque or twisting into the diff housing and you may want to truss or stiffen it a little but havent heard of anyone with any issues splitting the housing but have heard reports of the pivot breaking off (most likley due to poor fitment) the lockers would over come the tyre lifting but the X-link would give you better stability.

[U-BOAT]

Any updates there TIm? How ya getting on?

[hosehustler]

Well, I haven't done anything
I have been away on holiday with my wife and kids for 7days (school holidays), tonights the first night home
I have done squat except I did pick up a rear door and tyre carrier (the right colour) so I can mount spare tyre on rear door (spare mounting point will be raised).
I 'm having a play tomorrow with an 80 series radius arm, i've heard they have a much bigger arch and can be used if needed, I've picked up some plate steel, cut off saw and welder as well as having all next week off work so i'm hoping to have all SAS fabrication sorted towards the end of next week
I've also scanned the internet, talked and photographed locals who've done similar, and talked to bulletproof several times on the phone recently, i've digested nearly all available information and I'm reday to start fabrication.
1st job is to decide 100% on radius arms and make some rear mounting points for them, they will look similar to this

[hosehustler]

I have done some more work on it, I've fabricated extended front radius arm mounts, set the caster at 4* and fabbed up 1 rear radius arm mount (electric motor on cut off saw decided to have a meltdown) so I had to go and watch Bathurst
I'm a Murf fan and although 2nd place is first loser.......awesome effort after the early pit for tyres
No pics as camera needs batteries...

[hosehustler]

Vertical bandsaw recieved a brand new motor today, welder got a new coil of wire and some tips so I'm back in action
I even managed to weld up the broken exhaust on my $250 shitter runabout car (charade)
Will post some pics of the hilux within the next day or so.....unless you want some charade pics

[Mattman]

Hilux pics first mate

[Bulletproof]

Hi Tim

I was with Rick over the weekend and watching his setup with the prado suspension on the surf I think something wasn't quite right as it seem to lift a wheel quite often. I wonder whether it wouldn't be better with the early prado arms with rotating ends.
Also seemed to be very low to the ground behind the diff.

The other thing I noticed as I was behind, was that it had no lock. The Surf had to back up often where I just drove straight around even though I have a longer wheelbase.

Pauls Prado certainly works alot better.

Cheers Richard

[Steve_t647]

Not sure if this is the issue with the Prado swap you saw Richard but I have seen a couple where they have tried keep the raduis arm mounts nice and high, this has worked against the articulation and taken some of the smoothness out of the coil suspension. One with a prado front and rear in a hilux the rear the arms were almost at a 45deg angle and he said it was really stiff a 3 link would have been better in the rear rather than trying standard arms but that involves a bit of math and knowledge.

Pretty sure Tim (like you have) is trying to keep the arms and mounts within factory limits or close to, will know more when we see photo's I would like to see what he has done at the diff end with the front radius arm bush mounts and if he has to clearance the engine sump, I think the SAS into a 1kz surf is a cunning way to avoid all the wiring, bellhousing and annoying issues with engine an swap.

[NJV6]

Pauls Prado certainly works alot better.

What is the difference with Paul's Prado?

[Bulletproof]

Pauls Prado certainly works alot better.

What is the difference with Paul's Prado?

To put it bluntly all toyota suspension stinks but some are better than others and thats why I threw mine away.

Paul has had special springs made for his that have a lot more wire without going to a better Gauge . He also has a detachable anti sway bar but apart from that I don't know but it definately doesn't lift a wheel to the same degree.

Cheers Richard

[MATT4U]

the basics behind it is the lower arms use two bush's on each are to attach to the axel, this holds the axel firmly and stops it twisting. the problem is when it flex's the arms work against each other. having worn bush's helps alot to get more flex. also how tight the mounts on the axel against the arm mounting, the more "space" as such the more movement is allowed.
If the surf your talking about is the old one of adams the arms have been mounted ontop of the axle, and for some reason it appears to bind up in a big way.

[hosehustler]

the basics behind it is the lower arms use two bush's on each are to attach to the axel, this holds the axel firmly and stops it twisting. the problem is when it flex's the arms work against each other. having worn bush's helps alot to get more flex. also how tight the mounts on the axel against the arm mounting, the more "space" as such the more movement is allowed.
If the surf your talking about is the old one of adams the arms have been mounted ontop of the axle, and for some reason it appears to bind up in a big way.

Nah it's not Adam's surf Matt
As for flex this isn't going to be anything special at all, will be average at best, but road manners will be excellent as it's going to be a "good compromise" family truck (they have their own as well )....boat tower...poptop tower.....work transport for me.....and of course.......4x4 toy, the road manners are high on the list, therefore the "flexiness" will be kept reasonable.
On the progress side, I've finished the rear mounts for the radius arms, they are tacked on to the chassis.

[hosehustler]

Been a busy couple of days, i've been hard out woking on trucks and stuff but everyone else's and not mine
I have picked up some suspension parts for the front, some Prado Dobinson + 60mm springs and some adjustable RAW(non-gas) shocks, the beauty about the dobby's is they are the same diameter wire as standard, just have more coils, most raised springs just increase the size of wire and get their lift through brute force (which affects flexability), i'm pretty sure with the Dobby's and the adjustable shocks I should get good flex (for what it is) and shouldn't have the wheel lifting issues mentioned by Richard earlier.
Done the homework...........here's hoping

Anyway here's a couple of pics, the first is the rear (of front) radius arm mounts I made, they are only tacked onto chassis but will be welded and gussetted to chassis when complete, the 2nd pic is the front mount extensions and it clearly shows how little movement downwards of front mounts occurs to lift the rear of the radius arms up to accepable levels and retain castor at 4*

[Steve_t647]

Looks good like all your work any chance you can show me what oil pan to diff clearance is like? All the surfs I gave seen SAS'd have gone for big lifts and it won't lift or flex anywhere close (but they loose some stability) .

Just curious for now

Edit to add have you moved the diff forward any from the ifs factory location?

[Bulletproof]

Hi Tim
Looking good Tim and you are making good progress .You should join us at Reefton this year to test it out.

Cheers Richard

[hosehustler]

Looks good like all your work any chance you can show me what oil pan to diff clearance is like? All the surfs I gave seen SAS'd have gone for big lifts and it won't lift or flex anywhere close (but they loose some stability) .

Just curious for now

Edit to add have you moved the diff forward any from the ifs factory location?

Hi Steve
yeah the axle has been moved forward slightly and the distance between sump and axle housing is 130mm
Pics soon
Tim

[gazthedoc]

Mate the link for the surf on trade me is adams old truck. I bought it from him with it's shiny nice red body and promptly rolled it It's has a body swap done by rick

[hosehustler]

Hi Gareth,
I've never met you but welcome to my world, I hope the sale of your truck goes well
Thats a nice green body your truck has.....I wonder where that came from
Heres's a link to a trip of us with Adam back in 2004....enjoy
http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/node/504

Good luck with your sale, pity you don't want to come wheelin'
Cheers
Tim

[gazthedoc]

It's currently owned by some guy in vegas, I called when it popped back up on trade-me. He bought it as a family driver but the wife ain't too impressed(it's a long way up for the shopping). I wanted it back but seeing as the boss was in the passenger seat when it rolled she's not mad keen so it's boring old subaru forester for me, it does have a turbo and 185KW so not all bad

[hosehustler]

Hi Gareth,
the Subby is bad, come out wheelin' with me or my bro Al, and you'll be hooked
don't wory about the roll you had........we all do it here's my effrort

Tim

[Engineer]

Been a busy couple of days, i've been hard out woking on trucks and stuff but everyone else's and not mine
I have picked up some suspension parts for the front, some Prado Dobinson + 60mm springs and some adjustable RAW(non-gas) shocks, the beauty about the dobby's is they are the same diameter wire as standard, just have more coils, most raised springs just increase the size of wire and get their lift through brute force (which affects flexability), i'm pretty sure with the Dobby's and the adjustable shocks I should get good flex (for what it is) and shouldn't have the wheel lifting issues mentioned by Richard earlier.
Done the homework...........here's hoping

Anyway here's a couple of pics, the first is the rear (of front) radius arm mounts I made, they are only tacked onto chassis but will be welded and gussetted to chassis when complete, the 2nd pic is the front mount extensions and it clearly shows how little movement downwards of front mounts occurs to lift the rear of the radius arms up to accepable levels and retain castor at 4*

can i ask what is the hole center from the bottom of the chassis to the middle of the hole on the arm to keep the castor at 4*???
how much further forward have you moved the axle?

cheers ryan

[hosehustler]

axle is 30mm forward....front hole From centre of original front hole is 30mm downward, from chassis it will change big time for me, to cut a long story short ive set castor at 5* with 32 " inch tyres, i'm going to run 33's and castor is set high enough to run 35's (futureproofed), with 35's castor will be 3.5*

cheers
TiM

[gazthedoc]

Yep been out with Al a few times, he's a good bastard, came and winched me out of the ruts on worsley and brought me petrol as I ran out, whilst stuck Still, not buying a Nissan, never hear the bloody end of it You must have been close to smacking your scone on that roll?

[hosehustler]

Yep been out with Al a few times, he's a good bastard, came and winched me out of the ruts on worsley and brought me petrol as I ran out, whilst stuck Still, not buying a Nissan, never hear the bloody end of it You must have been close to smacking your scone on that roll?

whilst not big I scone........... have a very powerful scone, which I managed to remove from harms way that day, glad to see you're not a Nissan fan
Tim

[MATT4U]

Yep been out with Al a few times, he's a good bastard, came and winched me out of the ruts on worsley and brought me petrol as I ran out, whilst stuck Still, not buying a Nissan, never hear the bloody end of it You must have been close to smacking your scone on that roll?

whilst not big I scone........... have a very powerful scone, which I managed to remove from harms way that day, glad to see you're not a Nissan fan
Tim

come on Tim, tell the truth, its cause you sit so low in your seat that you head missed the rock

[PR]

Looks good Tim cant wait to see it in action

[hosehustler]

Plenty of progress, it's on all fours, coil/shock towers completed,engine mounts completed, longer springs in place with ride height all sorted
Just the panard mount and steering box mount to sort and front end completed

[hosehustler]

Hi Tim
Looking good Tim and you are making good progress .You should join us at Reefton this year to test it out.

Cheers Richard

PM me the dates Richard and i'll see if I can turn up for a few days.
cheers for the invite.....truck should be ready

[hosehustler]

Time for update, with a few pics this time, build threads are a waste of time without pics

this is how the front radius arm mount finished up



Engine mounts filled in, coil/shock towers all in place.




70 series cruiser box all mounted in and finished




This last pic shows all I have left to do on fabrication of the front end and thats weld the panhard mount to the chassis, also in this pic you can see panhard brace (I decided to ditch the small prado one, and go right across to pax chassis rail)
This shot also shows clearance between sump and axle.



So just waiting for parts now (locker, hub spacers) to finish off the front end, parts shouldn't be far off hopefully