SPARC - in our sport

[skid]

.

*before reading on please realise these comments are my own opinion and not those of anyone else.*









some of you will be aware and some of you won't, but the NZ 4wd Association is looking at joining SPARC (sport and recreation NZ ?)


this may have some benefits, but it seems it will also introduce drug/alcohol testing into our sport.

I'm not fully aware of where the process is at etc etc etc, but it seems that the majority of those voting it in are just club members etc who have nothing to do with the competition side of our sport and therefore have no idea about the fun social side of it.

now I've been involved in trialing for 15 or so years and have been to 1 or 2 winch events as well.

they are an awesome social scene to be involved in etc etc


where is this heading if the testing side of things happen

look around the majority of the competitors in the pits after a trial and they have finished the day, loaded thier truck on the trailer and are enjoying a nice cold one.

go to a winch event and they are run over a few days where you can sometimes camp onsite, and there socialising in the evening, before competing again the next day.


are we not adult enough to police our own and know when enough is enough the night before an event.



yes I know theres potential for things to go wrong if someone is under the influence, but so far in our sport nothing has gone wrong and in the future I can't really see it happening either.


do we need this

[Big-AL]

do you know it is that they test for?

[Sadam_Husain]

Without wanting to sound like the pot calling the kettle black theres no place for alcohol and drugs for anyone paticipating in motorsport whether their drivers or pitcrew or whatever

[Big-AL]

Policy Templates
Policy Template SPARC Anti-doping Policy
The Policy
1. In pursing its aim of enabling all New Zealanders to participate and
achieve in sport and active leisure, SPARC condemns the use of
performance enhancing drugs and doping practises in sport as
contrary to the ethics of sport and potentially harmful to the health
of competitors.
2. SPARC will support the development of national and international
initiatives to deter the use of performance-enhancing drugs and
doping practises.
3. SPARC aims to deter the use of performance-enhancing drugs and
doping practises in sport by:
Ensuring that effective sanctions are imposed on people who
commit doping offences
Educating and informing people about drugs in sport issues.
Supporting the anti-doping testing programmes and education
initiatives of the New Zealand Sports Drug Agency (NZSDA) and
other anti-doping authorities.
Requiring national sports organisations to endorse this policy
and in doing so to apply and enforce effective sanctions on people
who are found to have engaged in the use of performanceenhancing
drugs or doping practices in sport.
22
4. This sports drug policy applies to:
a. employees, consultants and contractors of SPARC
b. national sports organisation, their members and employees and
c. other organisations or persons receiving financial or other
assistance through SPARC.
5. SPARC recognises the NZSDA, its agents, any anti-doping authority
contracted by NZSDA, other national anti-doping agencies and
international sports organisations as agencies responsible for
conducting doping controls on competitors for testing in or out of
competition, whether in New Zealand or overseas.

[Big-AL]

the NZ4wd Individual position paper to sparc:

http://www.sparc.org.nz/filedownload?id ... e2c4467ee7

[PeterVahry]

Skid, the principle of aligning with Drug Free Sport NZ http://www.drugfreesport.org.nz/ is simply an extension of what the 4x4 clubs and event organisers have been applying. A relationship with SPARC has not been followed up as there are changes pending in how 'recreation' is addressed and a last action of the previous government was to announce a new version of SPARC to cover that.

The drug free thing simply provides some validity and 'teeth' to our existing processes. It was not driven by the 'non-competitive' side but from the competition aspect. As part of the overall risk management of competitions and general activities, we need to be demonstrating that we are addressing issues such as possible impairment of participants by drugs or alcohol.

It has been made clear that 4x4 activities are not a high priority for the testing by Drug Free Sport NZ but the possibility is there that it could happen. Their rules allow for a warning for first offences. At the 2008 NZFWDA conference we had an excellent presentation and overview by the CEO of Drug Free Sport NZ.

Yes, there are quite a few banned substances that some people may be taking for medical reasons such as drugs for blood circulation etc and that is recognised. Processes exist to have many of those type of drugs registered with Drug Free Sport NZ.

The proposal to adopt the drug free regime was well canvassed within the NZFWDA and we were surprised at the strong level of support. The NZFWDA are still working towards a formal agreement with Drug Free Sport NZ that recognises some of our unique motor sport aspects.

[cool__bananas]

it doesnt affect me to much because im a good boy but from what ive heard about it at club meetings its crap because if someone who came to the trial with me got completly drunk or stoned the night before the trial i may be kicked out cause hes my team member? and if someone does use a drug to help them with some medical problem and they forget the docters note they can be banned for drugs? what ive heard may not be the case but thats what i think of what ive heard

and really, why do we need it? is there a drug the is going to inhance our performance so we can complete every obsticle there is? no

so thats what i think about it, thats all from me

[Bubba]

This sounds like a huge shit storm brewing

Better hang on to the sides of your teacup

[Heath]

This sounds like a huge shit storm brewing

Better hang on to the sides of your teacup

Yep, turn off the recipricating air circulation device or we'll all get some.

[turoa]

Im all for anti drugs, but I dont think alcohol testing is neccecery. I beleive that It would be noticeable if someone was drunk on the day and they would be pulled out before they injured someone? Im curious as to how they would propose to do alc testing. Whole line of breath testers

[madaz068]

Do we really need another agency to police our sport? I say no, we should be able to do all this inhouse , just my personal view

[skid]

The proposal to adopt the drug free regime was well canvassed within the NZFWDA and we were surprised at the strong level of support.

thats why I posted the topic

I believe the strong level of support is from the wrong sector

I'm sure if I stood up at a drivers briefing and asked for a show of hands in support, that there wouldn't be many hands going up


I've been holding off posting this for a while now, and this morning something annoyed me to make me do it.

I'm just curious to see what 3000 odd members of a public forum think about the whole deal


the way I see the competition side of things operating at present is done in the good old kiwi spirit etc etc

unfortunately the competition side of our sport is a minority in this country and it shouldn't be that a whole bunch of weekend shiny/club trucks drivers can decide the future of something they have no involvement in

[Heath]

The proposal to adopt the drug free regime was well canvassed within the NZFWDA and we were surprised at the strong level of support.

thats why I posted the topic

I believe the strong level of support is from the wrong sector

I'm sure if I stood up at a drivers briefing and asked for a show of hands in support, that there wouldn't be many hands going up

I've been holding off posting this for a while now, and this morning something annoyed me to make me do it.

I'm just curious to see what 3000 odd members of a public forum think about the whole deal

the way I see the competition side of things operating at present is done in the good old kiwi spirit etc etc

unfortunately the competition side of our sport is a minority in this country and it shouldn't be that a whole bunch of weekend shiny/club trucks drivers can decide the future of something they have no involvement in

I would hope that if anyone was drunk or stoned the powers that be would notice and have a quiet word. Maybe they could suggest that driving with a "Migrane headache" is not a good idea and the competitor would then pull out, retiring ill without the stigma of being publicly named a drunk or dope head. At the end of the day with OSH etc out there to get you the organisers couldnt allow someone who possibly posed a threat to themselves or others to compete. If they did and there was check of competitors all hell could break loose.

[madaz068]

The proposal to adopt the drug free regime was well canvassed within the NZFWDA and we were surprised at the strong level of support.

thats why I posted the topic

I believe the strong level of support is from the wrong sector

I'm sure if I stood up at a drivers briefing and asked for a show of hands in support, that there wouldn't be many hands going up


I've been holding off posting this for a while now, and this morning something annoyed me to make me do it.

I'm just curious to see what 3000 odd members of a public forum think about the whole deal


the way I see the competition side of things operating at present is done in the good old kiwi spirit etc etc

unfortunately the competition side of our sport is a minority in this country and it shouldn't be that a whole bunch of weekend shiny/club trucks drivers can decide the future of something they have no involvement in

I dont think the general Club people would be happy about it either. I would like to see where the NZFWDA talked to the member clubs about it.

[tallsam66]

Due to the the needs of running events of all sorts nowdays its neccesary to have rules , procedures & guidelines inplace to cover all safety aspects of an event.
The taking of drugs/alcohol is just a part of this.

At no motoring even should any competitors/ crews/ marshals etc be under the influence of anything.

Its very important to have all the boxes ticked...a drug /alcohol policy is just one of those boxes.

[BrentC]

the way I see the competition side of things operating at present is done in the good old kiwi spirit etc etc

unfortunately the competition side of our sport is a minority in this country and it shouldn't be that a whole bunch of weekend shiny/club trucks drivers can decide the future of something they have no involvement in

which is exactly why some clubs will never host another national competition - why should the organisers be held criminally liable for a group of people who can't/won't accept that drugs and alcohol have absolutely no place in competitive motor sport.

[PeterVahry]

Skid, you imply that people who don't compete should not have a say on this subject. I'm not an active competitor but was on the committees of the winch challenges from 2000 to 2004 and event manager of that 2004 challenge. I was president of 4x4 Challenges NZ until I stepped down earlier this year. I have been a NZFWDA president too and known that there was always the risk that one day I might have had to explain why we'd allowed certain situations to have happened.

When you are organising an event it becomes sharply focused that there are quite a few people who are taking risks and the fewer risks there are, the better for everyone's future. When things go wrong, there is normally one person who bears the responsibility and that's the event manager/ organiser.

An area that has caused concern over a variety of 4x4 activities including Trials, is that of the condition of some participants and that's not always those in vehicles. It is fortunately not widespread but does happen occasionally.

The NZFWDA have moved to adopt a process applied by most other similar organisations, so that we have a practical tool to address those situations and to make it clear to participants that there is no tolerance of drug or alcohol impairment.
Motorsport NZ, Powerboat racing, Speedway, Gliding etc.etc are all examples of groups who have taken the same stand.

The impact on competition is unlikely to be noticed my the majority of participants and should give greater confidence that an event is safe and fair.

The process should not be a surprise to NZFWDA members as it had been identified in the last two Trail Torque newsletters mailed to members http://www.nzfwda.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=55.

[Pedro]

The process should not be a surprise to NZFWDA members as it had been identified in the last two Trail Torque newsletters mailed to members http://www.nzfwda.org.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=55.

interesting when you search the NZFWDA web site there are two references to sparc or drug free, early this year and if a remember rightly Aug.

if there needs to be a mechanisinm to deal with drugs and alcohol why can we not write it into our own rules without running to another body "cause they got it sorted"



putting it bluntly, , more cost, more bloody red tape, more hand holding. if a test is done for the nice sum of $450 each test, then roll in the lawyers to sort it, out who pays for that, a letter i did write to nzfwda came back with," it would be highly unlikey a test would be called for" , if it highly unlikey, why bloody join, general club members would not be tested, to roll out power boating and stock cars as a example is a joke, as all members in those sports would compete, everyone in that sport is affected, here we have 3000 plus members of which 200 may compete on the odd occasion,


having had a look at drug free nz policy as below, interesting you can drink more when you are pilot !! if you read banned list , caffine is currently allowed but may be reviewed,

Alcohol (ethanol) is prohibited In-Competition only, in the following sports. Detection will be conducted by analysis of breath and/or blood. The doping violation threshold (haematological values) for each Federation is reported in parenthesis.
• Aeronautic (FAI) (0.20 g/L)
• Archery (FITA, IPC) (0.10 g/L)
• Automobile (FIA) (0.10 g/L)
• Boules (IPC bowls) (0.10 g/L)
• Karate (WKF) (0.10 g/L)
• Modern Pentathlon (UIPM) (0.10 g/L) for disciplines involving shooting
• Motorcycling (FIM) (0.10 g/L)
• Powerboating (UIM) (0.30 g/L

Ps is'nt the legal limit for driving 400g/L ???? i not sure

my rant

Pedro

[Heath]

Dont forget fpor the purposes of the law and driving infringements the definition of a road is all encompassing. Pretty much if you can put a car there and attempt to drive it is deemed to be a road under the road transport act (or whatever it is called). Due to this the police are able to deal with anyone who is under the influence of either alcohol or drugs and there are limits to what is considered safe. Maybe a police presence(sp?) would solve the problem and if they deem the driver as safe then it's their problem (playing devils advocate a little here).

Of course we dont want to have outside agencies telling us how to run an event or policing them for us. If there is a problem then the head scrutineer/safety person/marshall needs to step up and say "no, you cant participate". I sure wouldnt want to be in that position and neither would I like to be sent away, but it would be better than having someone killed or injured and in the inquiry a tale of drunkeness and a blind eye turned, etc come out.

Why would someone put another person in a position like that? We are all adults and if we cant have a few beers responsibly before / after our chosen sport then we dont desrve to participate.

Of course as a bystander who is unaware of the drinking/drug culture buried in our sport I am not in a position to comment on the wheres and whys, but I dont want it destroyed before I get their either.

(Geez Skid you start some 'interesting' and emotive threads)

Heath

[Pedro]

not forgetting of course a test is done and then a few WEEKS later the results come back, hmm handy response time


pedro

[sig]

in my opinion this doesn,t effect the general club member but directly affects trialists .wouldn,t it be fairer for license holding trialists to be able to vote on this ,and their recommendation taken back to the association for evaluation (my two cents worth)

[Heath]

in my opinion this doesn,t effect the general club member but directly affects trialists .wouldn,t it be fairer for license holding trialists to be able to vote on this ,and their recommendation taken back to the association for evaluation (my two cents worth)

"Let those who ride decide!" catchy that phrase and so versatile.

[skid]

Of course as a bystander who is unaware of the drinking/drug culture buried in our sport I am not in a position to comment on the wheres and whys, but I dont want it destroyed before I get their either.

(Geez Skid you start some 'interesting' and emotive threads)

Heath

I never meant to imply that those competing are a bunch of stoned pissheads who do nothing else.

What I'm trying to convey is that at the moment immediately after a trial once vehicles are loaded onto a trailer, most competitors like to relax with a cold one and I can see this sparc stuff getting out of hand later and people getting tested for no reason at all.


there is also the underlying fact that trialing in particular is getting very competitive and there are people out there that will protest a competitor who they think may be ever so slightly under the influence of those couple of beers that had immediately after the trial, just because that competitor poses a threat to thier shot at the title.


yes there are those kind of people out there


I never started this thread for a shitfight, although I knew it would wind some folks up.

as with most threads I would like to think that you can say your piece and others will take it on board and not get wound up about it.


I was just trying to highlight the fact that this particular issue seems to have shot over the cometitive side of the sport without thier input.

SKID

[PeterVahry]

What I'm trying to convey is that at the moment immediately after a trial once vehicles are loaded onto a trailer, most competitors like to relax with a cold one and I can see this sparc stuff getting out of hand later and people getting tested for no reason at all.

Now you're getting into fantasy land! Take your pills immediately.

[skid]

What I'm trying to convey is that at the moment immediately after a trial once vehicles are loaded onto a trailer, most competitors like to relax with a cold one and I can see this sparc stuff getting out of hand later and people getting tested for no reason at all.

Now you're getting into fantasy land! Take your pills immediately.

I don't need pills.

I've been round at Sadams having a few beers, so most likely my judgement is impaired.

Please disregard anything I've posted after 6pm tonight.

Thank you.

SKID

[Pedro]

What I'm trying to convey is that at the moment immediately after a trial once vehicles are loaded onto a trailer, most competitors like to relax with a cold one and I can see this sparc stuff getting out of hand later and people getting tested for no reason at all.

Now you're getting into fantasy land! Take your pills immediately.

yup thats where we are headed, skid is right, there are a few in the sport who would drop opposition into crap in a heart beat to "win", or better thier chances,

as a previous poster said, we are covered by NZ road rule regardless of where the sport goes, i think the terms are ANYHERE public has access road rules apply, not sure how the boy racer of lack of traction applies, but the emphasis is on the drink driving, drugs are another matter,

recently there was a issue with a NZFWDA committee member that was dealt with internally, can this method not be applied to drink and drugs within the 4wd fraternaty rather than running off to a external agency to air the problem.

If random drug and drink testing takes place then it should apply to ALL 4wd assoc members and not only those in competition, all at random, currently the only ones that will get hammered are the competitors

pedro

[Heath]

Of course as a bystander who is unaware of the drinking/drug culture buried in our sport I am not in a position to comment on the wheres and whys, but I dont want it destroyed before I get their either.

(Geez Skid you start some 'interesting' and emotive threads)

Heath

I never meant to imply that those competing are a bunch of stoned pissheads who do nothing else.

Some bits in between...

I was just trying to highlight the fact that this particular issue seems to have shot over the competitive side of the sport without thier input.

SKID

I agree with the sentiment about those who have the most say should be those who are in the "drivers seats" (so to speak) , not some faceless guy like me who hasnt competed once yet. Sorry if I gave the impression that everyone is a reckless dope smoking pisshead, that wasnt my intention. And when the trucks are tucked in bed on the trailer for the night why not a celebratory or concilliatory ale with your mates. As long as the amount consumed isnt over the limit blah, blah,etc.

I nievely believed that the sport was run quite strictly and to all intent it is but the organisers have a set of rules to work with and unfortunately I guess when your competitor is only a few points from you and you need to win then the rules lawyers will come out to play, shame really but its like that in all sport, just our chosen sport has huge areas of gray that make it hard to say with certainty what is right and wrong. we all know what the intent of the rules are.

If nothing else Skid raising these issues so they can be discussed and the feelings of the masses can be gauged is a good thing. There nothing wrong with a healthy debate. Bring on the next one skiddy.

Heath

[BrentC]

in my opinion this doesn,t effect the general club member but directly affects trialists .wouldn,t it be fairer for license holding trialists to be able to vote on this ,and their recommendation taken back to the association for evaluation (my two cents worth)

Except that these trials are run under the auspices of the NZ4WDA, are open to the Public and a drug and alcohol policy would affect every NZ4WDA member. Personally, I am not sure why anyone who is about to drive anywhere would object to being drug or alcohol tested.