TJ regear and lock

[Fen]

I thought I'd start a new thread based on some disucssion in another one so as not to take it off topic and also to improve searchability for the future as this might be a searched for subject.

I primarily aim this at TJ (the user as well as the model), but please anyone jump in, even non-Jeep people.

TJ and I have agreed we ideally need to regear our 3.07 trucks and that we should lock them at the same time to reduce labour. I'm happy enough that I can arrive at a suitable ratio (probably 4.56 for me, though I haven't decided for sure) and that my ideal number (owning a 5 speed manual) would probably not be the same for a 3 speed auto.

I'm not sure if I want to take on regearing myself - it's involved and would be satisfying if I did it successfully, but I'm not the most patient of people and I can see I might get frustrated setting up the preloads, contact pattern and backlash. I also don't want to spend as much on specialist tools I will rarely use as it would cost to get someone else to do it and then spend 2 (or more) full weekends under the truck on top.

Having spoken to another local TJ owner on Sunday past he has had some quite scary quotes for labour to regear and got the impression people didn't really want the job, so - anyone got a good recommend for a workshop to do it?

Second question is on lockers. I'm aware that types such as Detroit and Aussie are not ideal for the rear, although there is a smoother lunchbox type (I forget the brand and model name just now; Richmond?) that might be OK. Should I be looking at that with an Aussie type on the front or will I just regret not getting proper lockers and end up doing the job twice so I might as well spring the extra Dollar get ARB or OX right away? I have a decent compressor and I can always use an old fire extinguisher to give it an air tank.

[Flash2004]

To save you the trouble i have a rebuilt TJ D30 front axle assembly with 4.88 gears and ARB airlocker which comes with a second and brand new 4.88 ring and pinion as a spare or TJ might want it. The suspension mounts are possibly not standard as i ran it with an RE5.5 long arm kit but it shouldn't be too difficult to modify for your use. The axle wouldn't have done200km since it was built up. I replaced it with a D44 and Traklock setup. You can have it all for $2k and i think I have the axle inners still too. Also have a complete but partially dismantled 2000 TJ sport for bits as you need them.

From my experience running Mickey Thomson 13.5 x 35's I wouldn't go for the 4.56 when you can have a 4.88 and the thing is still gutless on the road even though the dyno shows its pulling better than stock. I had 4.56's in it originally but changed to 4.88 when the front one broke and based on advice from the US Jeepsters.

It cost me $1200 in labour to have it set up initially with the locker and new ratio, then another $600 to do it again with another guy when the first one broke because it was not done properly. Plus parts of course. I had this new guy set up both front and rear again actually. This (installing new gears) is not a job you can do yourself on a setup like this is the best advice I can give you. I've set up enough diffs in my time (pumpkin types) to have looked at it and to know it.

[Fen]

An interesting suggestion, thanks. I have to consider it for the time being as I'll shortly be done working and haven't got a new contract lined up yet, but once that is sorted out I'll be looking to move ahead and I'll give serious thought to getting back to you - assuming TJ or someone else doesn't jump in first.

I have to say I was sort of favoring OX rather than ARB lockers however (if I even go the full locker route as opposed to lunchbox) based purely on the simplicity of a cable actuator rather than the hassle of an air actuator.

4.88 is my other candidate ratio, and really it comes down to whether I want to run 33s or 35s I think. I suspect 4.88 would be too low if I went with 33s whereas I was thinking with 4.56 my options would still be open to some extent. I'd ideally get the second half of the life my current 31s have in them before I replace them and have to decide what size I'm going with next and I have backed away from putting the 31s on the XJ as I don't want to build up 2 trucks when I can just do one. 4.88 would be mad with the 31s but as a temporary I could live with it.

I have however decided the way to do the build up is to decide on an end spec and just go there rather than mess around with a small lift and 33s and then go to 35s on a bigger lift a bit later as that's a waste of cash.

[Flash2004]

An interesting suggestion, thanks. I have to consider it for the time being as I'll shortly be done working and haven't got a new contract lined up yet, but once that is sorted out I'll be looking to move ahead and I'll give serious thought to getting back to you - assuming TJ or someone else doesn't jump in first.

I have to say I was sort of favoring OX rather than ARB lockers however (if I even go the full locker route as opposed to lunchbox) based purely on the simplicity of a cable actuator rather than the hassle of an air actuator.

4.88 is my other candidate ratio, and really it comes down to whether I want to run 33s or 35s I think. I suspect 4.88 would be too low if I went with 33s whereas I was thinking with 4.56 my options would still be open to some extent. I'd ideally get the second half of the life my current 31s have in them before I replace them and have to decide what size I'm going with next and I have backed away from putting the 31s on the XJ as I don't want to build up 2 trucks when I can just do one. 4.88 would be mad with the 31s but as a temporary I could live with it.

I have however decided the way to do the build up is to decide on an end spec and just go there rather than mess around with a small lift and 33s and then go to 35s on a bigger lift a bit later as that's a waste of cash.

If I was going to start on all this again I'd save the lift money and tub the guards to suit the 35's, put a flat underbody crossmember and this and the tyres should give you all the clearance you need. The lift looks great, but is unwieldy and sure feels unstable even though it isn't. If you don't go long arm then the lift is probably going to reduce your axle travel anyway. Combine this flatter and lower ride with some sort of lockers front and rear and you're almost there. If you have a heavy foot, spend the money and buy a set of those new unused locking rubicon axles on Trademe with the rear D44 with discs and front D44 with locker and 4.1ratio instead of building up or buying my D30. The D30 will last OK if you take it a bit easy.

As a footnote, i always thought I was busting my front R&P because it was too light. Guess who has rooted the front diff on his 80 series non turbo last weekend? And I wasn't even driving it at the time!

[TJ]

To start off, at this stage I am not looking at re-gearing in my immediate future (economy/dollar are not favourable). It is in my plans, but that might wait a little for now. Its about priorities and kids/family comes first, always.

Now when I do want change them gears, since I have a 3 speed auto (with final 1:1 ratio) I will have to be mindful of what sort of rpms I will be pulling when I am doing 100 kms/hr on the motorway. 4.88 or 4.56 might be too much unless I go with 35" tyres. I have not done the analysis in my head yet.

Regarding the type of locker, I will probably stick with ARB since they are locally serviceable and selectable. SWB Jeeps don't enjoy lunch box lockers in the rear anyway (unless its not a daily driver).

I personally don't want to run a very high lift, so might have to think about belly-up with flat fenders (or some such thing).

Be careful of those Trademe axles, they are for JKs. They would be different track width and bolt patterns (5 on 5"). Also JK axles will have different spring perches and control arm mounting points. You will have to keep mods to all these before they can be run under a TJ.

Lastly, pricing estimate should include the lockers, ring and pinion gears, bearing kits (since you are already in there, might as well service the diff properly) and labour. Might have to even think about chrome moly axles to take the beating from those lockers

I am working on the costing of all of this in my mind (don't know how accurate it would be given changing dollar rate).

[xj]

Waikato 4x4 in Cambridge charged me $1550.00 to install both front and rear ARB's. From what i gather the lockers are around $1600.00 each now, and the two options of ARB compressor cost between $180-$350. (without tank/with tank)

Dunno what a regear costs.

[skid]

If you have a heavy foot, spend the money and buy a set of those new unused locking rubicon axles on Trademe with the rear D44 with discs and front D44 with locker and 4.1ratio instead of building up or buying my D30.

if those are the complete axles out of the new rubicons(JK), and the guy had a few sets of them, then don't bother, unless you are an extremely clever fabricator/engineer.

A guy in Welly bought a set and they don't match up in mounting in any way shape or form on a TJ.

lots of hard work ahead for that fulla, cutting, grinding, welding etc etc etc

and I think they were bloody expensive too (6K)

[Flash2004]

If you have a heavy foot, spend the money and buy a set of those new unused locking rubicon axles on Trademe with the rear D44 with discs and front D44 with locker and 4.1ratio instead of building up or buying my D30.

if those are the complete axles out of the new rubicons(JK), and the guy had a few sets of them, then don't bother, unless you are an extremely clever fabricator/engineer.

A guy in Welly bought a set and they don't match up in mounting in any way shape or form on a TJ.

lots of hard work ahead for that fulla, cutting, grinding, welding etc etc etc

and I think they were bloody expensive too (6K)

It would be well worth the effort and expense still Skid, they are brilliant axles. As an example of the costs involved in an alternative, it cost me about $10k to buy a brand new OEM TJ D44 front axle assembly with the correct ratio and a traklock limited slip out of the USA and have it modified to suit my long arm arrangement. I was a little bit ahead of myself and placed the order just before those new axles came on Trademe at just over $4k a set bugger it.

I would have been so much better off to have bought them. Just the small things all add up like the discs on the rear and bigger discs on the front. The TJ disc/drum setup will not hold my auto at idle in either forward or reverse on the steep stuff and that can be very disenchanting. I have spent mega on getting the stock brakes as good as they can be too. The handbrake is useless as well and only ever works effectively on WOF days.

Another small thing like the positive lockers front and rear with provision for an engaged/disengaged warning l;ight on the dash. Anyone who's driven tricky stuff with an ARB locker will know what its like to think they're disengaged and then find out, too late, they're not.

Another small thing is the wider track. How useful is that for a lifted truck? TJ is probably right about the stud pattern but I wouldn't know. If its wrong that would have been annoying but not insurmountable.

The reality is that if you want a really capable, well balanced and reliable Jeep there's no sense cutting corners or you will be forever compromising. But I suppose that's the same with any make and model. That's why I am now of the opinion the manufacturers know best.

How many modified trucks do you know of that can do absolutely everything well, including high speed on the way home? Some are brilliant hill climbers but go end for end on a downhill of the same grade. Some fall over on a sideling but are pretty good in a mudhole. Some can knock over small trees but are cross axled off a gravel road, some sink like a stone in the mud. Some are really good for 10 minutes and spend the rest of the day on the trailer.

My TJ, only after absolute megabucks spent on mods to fix problems highlighted by other mods, is approaching usefulness and reliability (as soon as I replace the power steering pump for the third time because the big tyres overload it) and can do everything quite well except stop and steer. The only snag is it would have been much cheaper to go and buy a new Defender or V8 diesel 70 series wagon maybe, put some slightly bigger tyres on it, and be able to do very nearly the same stuff in comfort and reliability. Sorry to disappoint, but Believe me, I think I'm one of only a very few who have been down the entire track (with both Landrover and TJ) and didn't run out of enthusiasm and or money. Now though, I don't want to use it in case the bastard proves me wrong yet again! You'll see the result in my 80 series posting, wrong again!

[TJ]

Only if we could get the exchange rate back up to where it was (around .80 cents!!!).....

http://www.4x4groupbuy.com/store/ultimate-superior-axle-gear-package-dana-p-5211.html