1080 lies and bullshit

[haynzy]

For all the 1080 hating hunter and gatherers out there, dont miss cambell live tomorrow. Good doco on by the Graff brothers

[NJV6]

Is it one sided though?

I don't know enough about it so am saying nothing regarding the topic but I do find many doco's are one sided with agenda's to push so I take them with a grain of salt.

Maybe I'll think differently after seeing it.

[possum70]

must say i'm looking forward to watching it thanks for the reminder . we lost a dog to 1080 about 8yrs ago i can tell you it's it is one of the most painfull deaths i've seen. i totaly dissagree with the use of 1080 if they want to get rid of the possums they should put a bounty on possums i'm sure the job would be done and at half the price.

[mike]

So here is a little reading about 1080

ERMA -> http://www.ermanz.govt.nz/news-events/1 ... 0FINAL.pdf

Docs FAQ on it -> http://www.doc.govt.nz/conservation/thr ... trol/1080/

ERMA Review -> http://www.ermanz.govt.nz/news-events/1080/index.html

Quite interesting reading.

[Steve_t647]

I don't like 1080 but until there is a cost effective alternative that works I don't see any better soloution, we were given all the documentation because an native bush area dad has a batch in was being 1080 dropped the good and bad.

These were their aprox fugures from memory, as far as cost doing nothing cost $0 but the forrest area would be eaten in under 10 years and native birds and wild life would survive 3-5.
The 1080 drop cost $5 per kill and a high kill rate, can leave for long periods Opossum population takes 9 months to begin recovery including animals moving into the area from other areas in an unfenced forest.
The hunters cost $35 per kill Average kill rate the area has to be continuously hunted 2 months and the population will recover from heavy hunting and this was in a fenced forest.
The traping cost $45 per kill Average kill rate the area has to be continuously traped 2 months and the population will recover from heavy traping and again in a fenced forest.

Lincon Univercity is trying to find a CJD style virus or a virus that can make the males sterile for a period of time.

I have been into area's re-opened after 1080 drops and it is a lot quieter there is a noticable drop in activity of every kind even sandflies, I have also been into areas before 1080 drops hunting and the amount of damage and noise at night was very suprising, did I kill them? nope I was looking for deer and shooting Opossum's would scare the deer, when I missed that opportunity I killed about 5 on the way out but at $1 per shot and a High powered rifle you choose the ones you pick off carefuly.

At least this is what DOC, and international research has told them and my experience you do not want to know the amount of money they are spending on controling the Opossum problem, you want to go to a forestry block when they have been felling large numbers of tree's the number of Opossum's out druing the day you would not believe.

The only better kill rate the international results came up with was from Australia saying Fire, the Opossum feel's safest in the top of the tree and when the fire gets to it it cannot climb down but burning the forest and having it regenerate is a 50-100 year soloution.

[Slideways]

My biggest gripe is not being able to let my dog run around freakn ANYWHERE! FFS there is a big field in my area (was going to be used for housing but gets too boggy) that people use to excercise their dogs. The other day I walked down and found a god damn 1080 sign! This is just rediculous, its right next to a primary school and they used to have signs up calling the field a play area?

I've read in a hunting magazine that some farmers find it more efficient to pay a hunter to kill off the possum population than what DOC can get using 1080 from a given area, contradicts the above info but who really knows?

Surely there is a better way.

[KiwiBacon]

My biggest gripe is not being able to let my dog run around freakn ANYWHERE!

If you muzzle him so he can't eat off the ground it'll be fine.

Steve, well said.

[STUKLUX]

1080 is not what NZ should be using,the rest of the world does'nt!
I know of dogs that have been killed by it and I have seen birds and other wildlife lying dead next to pellets of it.

Here is a article I found the other week.

2009 February/March issue of NZ Outdoor HUNTING, page 12

Government Stockpiles 1080 poison

The labour/greens government, defeated in
the November election, has been stacking 1080
poison up in storage, according to a national
farming paper. The report said there was enough
1080 poison stored away to last for the next four
years.

The disclosure has angered the growing
opposition to government use of the toxin.

South Auckland outdoorsman Wyn Hibberd
said the 1080 programme was a "huge government
run bureaucracy" out of control. Malborough
deerstalker Lloyd Hanson said the storage
showed government plans to decimate the
country with 1080 and showed how deaf
government is to public view.

The farming paper that reported on the
stockpiling, also revealed plans to expand
the government-run 1080 plant at Wanganui.
Government ownership is in the Animal Health
Products SOE that runs the plant. In October
former
finance minister Michael Cullen and Jim Anderton
were listed as shareholders on behalf of the Government.

West Coast 1080 opponent Laurie Collins said
Animal Health Products (ACP) in it's 2008 report
stated that SOE is looking to make and export
1080 from New Zealand. He criticisied the covert
way of running the 1080 racket.

"If they want to make the toxin here using our
money, we have a right to know and discuss it,"
he said.

Opponents to 1080 vary from optimism to
cynicism about how the new National led
government will handle the issue. Now with a
new National/Maori/Act government, there may
be a glimmer of hope of a new attitude and an
end to 1080.

Laurie Collins pointed out United Future's
Peter Dunne has publicly opposed 1080 while
a number of nation MP's are uneasy over the
poison.

Maori MP Pita S harples is reportedly unhappy
over 1080.

However he expected DOC and AHB bureaucrats
would work hard to block any intention to reduce
the use of 1080. On the other hand, National
pledged to slash the number of bureaucrats. We
will be watching to see what happens.

[Slideways]

My biggest gripe is not being able to let my dog run around freakn ANYWHERE!

If you muzzle him so he can't eat off the ground it'll be fine.

Steve, well said.

True but she's a "family" pet, who has never needed a muzzle so would just sit there trying to pull it off rather than run around getting some exercise. Its sad that NZ is full of great bush area's and river tracks but anyone with a dog has to worry about 1080 EVERYWHERE in any part of the bush with the signs that say there is poison but don't bother to date them - then there is the poisonous blue/green algae problem in the Wellington rivers stopping us from going there as well.

You can't win, might as well live in the some concrete jungle city instead of "green nz".

[BrentC]

So - apart from all the rhetoric and mis-info by all parties


what is the definitive answer to the possum problem - please don't say trapping and baiting



We rent an office to a scientist that is working hard on developing 1080 alternatives

[Jafa]

Country Calendar the other night had a good article on a couple who run a business harvesting possum fur and making a merino/possum mix yarn out of it, they harvest 1.5million possums a year, and say with some co-operation from "various bodies" could up that to 3 million easily. Their main problem is a lack of willingness to explore this as a viable option, those with the control just want to drop 1080 everywhere. This is just a little two person business run out of a farm near Opotiki, imagine what sort of impact on possum population if "big business" got into it, or even a bunch of small setups, employment for hundreds of hunters/trappers, factory workers, etc.

[BrentC]

There are about 70 million possums in NZ - according to http://www.kcc.org.nz/pests/possum.asp

3 million is just harvesting or farming - not eradication

[UBZ]

I hate 1080 with a passion. After seeing one on my dogs die from it.
Ive never owned a dog that needed to be muzzled, work and family. And they are all trained not to eat off the ground, but dogs will be dogs.

While the control of bovine TB is not something to be messed with surly there must be a better way ,without carpet bombing the forests with poison that kills everything.

Would you lay landmines to kill rabbits?

The only way to clear possums out of a section of bush is to systematically remove them and then prevent them from returning.

[BrentC]

This is just a little two person business run out of a farm near Opotiki, imagine what sort of impact on possum population if "big business" got into it, or even a bunch of small setups, employment for hundreds of hunters/trappers, factory workers, etc.

that buys from 400 hunters

[Sadam_Husain]

what is the definitive answer to the possum problem - please don't say trapping and baiting

36 inch simexes

[Jafa]

I'm not saying its the way to eradicate them, but its one way to help, and provide a sustainable business at the same time. We aren't going to get rid of possums, DOC's been trying with 1080 for about 40 years and hasnt succeeded, what we need to do is find another method, and/or make use of the possum as a resource rather than a pest that needs to be bombed out of existence with toxins that kill everything else in the bush as well.

[Jafa]

Interesting that when it came to eradicating possum from Kapiti island, the NZFS considered 1080 too dangerous to the native bird population. This is an extract from a NZFS/DOC report on the Kapiti program

An initial “knockdown” followed by “mop-up” is a strategically
sound approach to eradication. The aerial application
of 1080 is a potentially useful knockdown tool but
was unacceptable on Kapiti due to the perceived risk to
rare and endangered bird species. Traps placed on sets off
the ground were the chosen tools for knockdown and they
proved to be very effective. The efficacy of trapping was
placed at risk by experimentation with set designs (and
trap types) that resulted in a high proportion of escapes in
the early design stage. Some escaped possums became trap
shy that increased the risk of eradication failure. A very
effective set was eventually designed (Fig. 1) and traps
were maintained to a very high standard. Hence the fifth
lesson from this project is that “eradication tools should
be developed off-site to minimise the risk that target species
will become shy and avoid the eradication tools”.
Highly-trained dogs (to minimise non-target risks and maximise
search and destroy capabilities) proved ideal for locating
the few remaining possums that had avoided traps.
The dogs killed many possums in areas of high possum
density on the mainland while training but it is not known
if dogs would have been more successful than traps at high
possum density, early in the operation on Kapiti. Part of
the dogs’ success as “mop-up tools” lay in the fact that
they were tracking individual possums. This enabled information
to be gathered on an individual (over a twoweek
period in one case) that inevitably ended in it being
located and killed. The dogs provided the ultimate monitoring
tool because not only could they detect the presence
of possums at low density, they could also confirm
the absence of possums. Hence the sixth lesson from this
project is that “well tested tools should be used in the right
sequence to achieve the knockdown and subsequent mopup
phases of the operation”. The seventh lesson from this
project is that “the tools chosen should minimise non-target
risks”. The eighth lesson from this project is that “monitoring
allows progress to be tracked and provides valuable
information to sustain support”.


If it can be done on Kapiti, no reason, apart from money, why it cant be done on the rest of NZ

[KiwiBacon]

There are about 70 million possums in NZ - according to http://www.kcc.org.nz/pests/possum.asp

3 million is just harvesting or farming - not eradication

In addition any industry which is setup to use possums will create groups of people opposed to their eradication.
They may even start farming possums to keep supply. Which is the exact opposite to the desired outcome.

As for muzzling dogs, really if you're out in native bush you should have them muzzled anyway, stops them inadvertently eating rare birds.

[BrentC]

the current answer from DOC etc - is that 1080 by kill is peanuts compared with not using 1080 - ie more native birds will be dead from forest degradation than from eating 1080 pellets.

We have a scientist in one of our rental offices who spends 30% of her time on chemical formulas to kill possums - the group she contracts to feel that they are close to a viable alternative - I understand that it is something that causes sterility not sure how it affects hunters


They are very secretive due to the amount of dosh that can be earned.

[STUKLUX]

There are about 70 million possums in NZ - according to http://www.kcc.org.nz/pests/possum.asp

3 million is just harvesting or farming - not eradication

In addition any industry which is setup to use possums will create groups of people opposed to their eradication.
They may even start farming possums to keep supply. Which is the exact opposite to the desired outcome.

As for muzzling dogs, really if you're out in native bush you should have them muzzled anyway, stops them inadvertently eating rare birds.

I don't know of many dogs that go around eating native or rare birds,it does happen now and then but I know more rare birds die from poison than dogs,and makes hunting for pigs really hard if your dog is muzzled.

[Jezza]

Heres a couple of videos about the effects of 1080
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yJSvAe8SXw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlC3yLShuRI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCMybJoJk90&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m81afDNSS-4&feature=related

There are about 70 million possums in NZ - according to http://www.kcc.org.nz/pests/possum.asp

3 million is just harvesting or farming - not eradication

70 million possums doesn't sound like they are doing a very good job at eradication

[wopass]

what is the definitive answer to the possum problem - please don't say trapping and baiting

36 inch simexes

hahha yea!! recover from that one ya basterd

[vvega]

hell yeah keen to hunt possums liek that

[KiwiBacon]

Check it out, Two Moons.

[wopass]

Check it out, Two Moons.

nah there was 4 moons...had the spots on 2 billion million zillion candle power

[shortylux]

Hi Stuklux, I tend to agree with you re dogs eating kiwi etc.
I cant remember the numbers, but I read an article from which ever bank has the kiwi fund (ANZ?). It was regaurding a small population of kiwi in northland. Dogs accounted for a stagering percentage of the deaths in this population (i think it was like 90%).

I find it hard to beleive but it seems to be a fact that "my loving family pet" is responsable for a large amount of bird death.

Arron.

[haynzy]

Hi Stuklux, I tend to agree with you re dogs eating kiwi etc.
I cant remember the numbers, but I read an article from which ever bank has the kiwi fund (ANZ?). It was regaurding a small population of kiwi in northland. Dogs accounted for a stagering percentage of the deaths in this population (i think it was like 90%).

I find it hard to beleive but it seems to be a fact that "my loving family pet" is responsable for a large amount of bird death.

Arron.

thats why you do the kiwi proofing test,from what I have seen it works a treat